The 6:30am BNE-SYD is gone and I am not on it [No ESTA]

[eric2011]

I hope not

Why... The man made a mistake, he stuffed up and he knows he did and courageously admitted it. After nearly 180 posts don't you think it time to call it quits. How many more times are people going to kick him in the stomach while he's down.

 

[opusman]

Get a grip, no one has kicked the OP or even been particularly nasty to him. Not everyone has been as sympathetic as he obviously hoped, that's all.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Get a grip, no one has kicked the OP or even been particularly nasty to him. Not everyone has been as sympathetic as he obviously hoped, that's all.

This.

A robust discussion around the issues, none of which were personal, should not be interpreted as attacking someone.

 

[mickeyc747]

Nicely put boomy esp. the last paragraph. ..I just don't understand the negativity towards John here and on the other forum where I have also expressed my disappointment! In fact, I'm going to take a time out from all my online travel forums, and reassess the degree of my participation!

KPC whilst I understand your disappointment I have to say JohnK should have known better and VA should have acted a lot better as well. But it was one of these forums that reunited you with a lost Jacket in AUH. Everyone's input is valued and you have much to contribute on the forum as in the past. My two cents worth.

 

[JohnK]

Given the maintenance of hurt victimology of the OP, and denial of fault on his part, I suspect we might be close to it!

" ... as long as [Virgin] are able to draw enough blood out of the victim ..."? Given the extremity of those sorts of comments, made in the cool light of a new day, one could be forgiven for entertaining idle thoughts about what the temperature was like as this unfolded, and whether that had anything to do with Virgin's actions or non actions.

I am really glad you find someone's misfortune funny.

Get a grip, no one has kicked the OP or even been particularly nasty to him. Not everyone has been as sympathetic as he obviously hoped, that's all.

Opinion is clearly divided. What makes you think your opinion is right?

I was denied boarding for a domestic flight. The rest is irrelevant. I was on time for domestic flight and ESTA approved before domestic flight took off. This is not made up. Virgin staff clearly stuffed up for whatever reason. I am not the only one that can see this is what happened.

 

[CJEMNMAC]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

Am I the only lazy buggar (I mean 'environmentally friendly' person) that screenshots things like ESTA?

I will make a point from my experience last year. First QF international flight SYD-DFW. Had all my documents ( Flights, Accomm, Insurance etc etc ) in folders on my Ipad. Thought I was being clever.

The flight was a one way with my wife and I was using the last part of another ticket to return. QF check in and supervisor would not allow check in based on electronic copy of a return itinerary. No way. It must be paper they said.

If I did not have a paper copy we were not boarding. My wife went to VA check in and got a paper print out of return flight. This was accepted. I went to DL check in as I was going MSP - YVR on delta and YVR - NRT on JAL. Delta printout not accepted as YVR is not leaving the "americas ". JAL check in is closed. Ended up in flight centre in SYD T1 forwarding emails to a random agent to get charged $10 I think to print a couple of pages.

All this to say, I always now carry a paper copy of documents despite the fact I think this is an absurd proposition.

 

[harvyk]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

I will make a point from my experience last year. First QF international flight SYD-DFW. Had all my documents ( Flights, Accomm, Insurance etc etc ) in folders on my Ipad. Thought I was being clever.

The flight was a one way with my wife and I was using the last part of another ticket to return. QF check in and supervisor would not allow check in based on electronic copy of a return itinerary. No way. It must be paper they said.

If I did not have a paper copy we were not boarding. My wife went to VA check in and got a paper print out of return flight. This was accepted. I went to DL check in as I was going MSP - YVR on delta and YVR - NRT on JAL. Delta printout not accepted as YVR is not leaving the "americas ". JAL check in is closed. Ended up in flight centre in SYD T1 forwarding emails to a random agent to get charged $10 I think to print a couple of pages.

All this to say, I always now carry a paper copy of documents despite the fact I think this is an absurd proposition.

That's a bit crazy, considering that I would trust an electronic record held on a verified website (extremely difficult to fake) over a piece of paper (which is extremely easy to fake).
I guess some old school thinking will just never die.

Edit: although my comment still stands, but I noticed that it was simply documents on iPad, that said I would put about as much weight on them as I would a piece of paper.

 

[Quickstatus]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

I will make a point from my experience last year. First QF international flight SYD-DFW. Had all my documents ( Flights, Accomm, Insurance etc etc ) in folders on my Ipad. Thought I was being clever.

The flight was a one way with my wife and I was using the last part of another ticket to return. QF check in and supervisor would not allow check in based on electronic copy of a return itinerary. No way. It must be paper they said.

If I did not have a paper copy we were not boarding. My wife went to VA check in and got a paper print out of return flight. This was accepted. I went to DL check in as I was going MSP - YVR on delta and YVR - NRT on JAL. Delta printout not accepted as YVR is not leaving the "americas ". JAL check in is closed. Ended up in flight centre in SYD T1 forwarding emails to a random agent to get charged $10 I think to print a couple of pages.

All this to say, I always now carry a paper copy of documents despite the fact I think this is an absurd proposition.

Thats the agent playing hardball. So was VA irrespective of whether they were within their rights to do so.

 

[pagingjoan]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

I will make a point from my experience last year. First QF international flight SYD-DFW. Had all my documents ( Flights, Accomm, Insurance etc etc ) in folders on my Ipad. Thought I was being clever.

The flight was a one way with my wife and I was using the last part of another ticket to return. QF check in and supervisor would not allow check in based on electronic copy of a return itinerary. No way. It must be paper they said.

If I did not have a paper copy we were not boarding. My wife went to VA check in and got a paper print out of return flight. This was accepted. I went to DL check in as I was going MSP - YVR on delta and YVR - NRT on JAL. Delta printout not accepted as YVR is not leaving the "americas ". JAL check in is closed. Ended up in flight centre in SYD T1 forwarding emails to a random agent to get charged $10 I think to print a couple of pages.

All this to say, I always now carry a paper copy of documents despite the fact I think this is an absurd proposition.

Indeed. Whatever the logic, it is such a relief to be able to produce the printout, when faced with an implacable barrier to boarding a flight or accessing a hotel room. A small price to pay, I think.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I am really glad you find someone's misfortune funny.



Opinion is clearly divided. What makes you think your opinion is right?

I was denied boarding for a domestic flight. The rest is irrelevant. I was on time for domestic flight and ESTA approved before domestic flight took off. This is not made up. Virgin staff clearly stuffed up for whatever reason. I am not the only one that can see this is what happened.

The section you quoted was in no way stating that it found your misfortune funny! Perhaps that's why you are having difficulty understanding people aren't attacking you? RooFlyer's post was making a comment that perhaps the situation at check-in was not as clear and calm as it might have been made out to be.

You say you were denied boarding for a domestic flight. You say the rest is irrelevant. But it has been established that it is perhaps not that clear cut. If they carried you without proper documentation to SYD and you were stranded they would have been responsible for getting you home. Did you suggest, and sign a waiver, that you would cover all additional expenses to get yourself home from SYD?

The VA site states that you will be asked for your entry documentation at the time of check-in. Not at the time of boarding the last possible flight on an itinerary. So that's another point which is perhaps relevant.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

I will make a point from my experience last year. First QF international flight SYD-DFW. Had all my documents ( Flights, Accomm, Insurance etc etc ) in folders on my Ipad. Thought I was being clever.

The flight was a one way with my wife and I was using the last part of another ticket to return. QF check in and supervisor would not allow check in based on electronic copy of a return itinerary. No way. It must be paper they said.

If I did not have a paper copy we were not boarding. My wife went to VA check in and got a paper print out of return flight. This was accepted. I went to DL check in as I was going MSP - YVR on delta and YVR - NRT on JAL. Delta printout not accepted as YVR is not leaving the "americas ". JAL check in is closed. Ended up in flight centre in SYD T1 forwarding emails to a random agent to get charged $10 I think to print a couple of pages.

All this to say, I always now carry a paper copy of documents despite the fact I think this is an absurd proposition.

Same thing happened to two of my daughters checking in at SYD for QF11. Was a QF Award ticket one way. They were leaving the US on CX with an AA J Award JFK-HKG. Had to go and get a printed copy of the award. The QF J check-in would not accept an iPhone screenshot.
On our last complicated multi Award tickets trip to the US in January, we had hard copies of everything.

 

[Abdul_A350]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

Last week I flew CBR-MEL-AUH. I had around 3.5 hours in MEL and wanted to give my grandson a bulky present and also pick up some gifts from my son to take home with me.

So I asked to be checked in for CBR-MEL only and it wasn't an issue. I'm not sure whether the US ESTA might have been a complicating factor in this case, but it sounds like there may have been some confusion in the heat of the moment. Not intended as a criticism, but perhaps if JohnK had made it simpler for the check-in agent ("Oh, in that case could you please just check me through to SYD and I'll handle the immigration formalities there"), there might have been a different outcome.

 

[kermatu]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

I've been known to have 3 hard copies of my major tickets etc with me when I travel -- on me, with travel companions, or in suitcase -- and another with family or friends at home!

 

[nlagalle]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

I was not late.

I was early for domestic flight and I had ESTA in place ~3h 40m before international departure. In fact check-in was not even open in Sydney for international flight? Why are you ignoring these facts? This is not a story. We have now had 2 people from Qantas confirm the same thing I have been telling you.

you were late to to produce an ESTA because you did not have one when you arrived at the airport. THese are not facts John. you needed the ESTA to get onto your flight. What QF might be able to is of no relevance to VA's operations.

[quoute]You are knocking me. Stop blaming me. It was not my fault. The only mistake I made was not have an ESTA in the morning but that mistake was rectified well before check-in opened for international flight. All Virgin did was try to screw me. [/quote]

Seriously John? I'm not "knocking you" and yes I am blaming you. Why? Because you didn't do any due diligence and see what you needed before you left home. That is your mistake and that is why you are to blame. You didn't have the ESTA before your flight closed and it's irrelevant about the Sydney flight. Virgin weren't out to "screw" you. Had you had your ESTA before leaving home you'd be probably on your way home from LAX..

Had you got on here and said well i cough*cked up and forgot the ESTA so i couldn't fly today, everyone would have been sympathetic to you. But you are trying to blame someone (and the airline) else for your mistake and continuing it. they are not at fault here. They followed their rules and SOP's. Should others be inconvenienced because they bent the rules, re-opened the flight to let you on AND made it run late? That's why there is very little sympathy. but given you are still blaming VA, when clearly they are not at fault is not helping your cause. We've all made errors when it comes to travel, suck it up, admit you erred, move on and learn from the experience. Blaming everyone else doesn't help you.

 

[drron]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

Sorry to hear of your experience JohnK.
As I read it you quickly accepted blame for not having an ESTA but have a gripe about VA doing very little to help remedy the situation.
Part of the problem is that people see you saying "blame VA" and immediately assume you are blaming them for everything when it is obvious that you aren't.Though you did say the checkin agent did ask a supervisor if she could just check you in for the domestic leg.So it seems VA had a very unsympathetic supervisor on in Brisbane.

I do hope that everything else is going all right for you.I know there have been problems and I worry seeing your posts that everything is not as good as it was when we met in Bangkok.All the best mate.

 

[JohnK]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

Last week I flew CBR-MEL-AUH. I had around 3.5 hours in MEL and wanted to give my grandson a bulky present and also pick up some gifts from my son to take home with me.

So I asked to be checked in for CBR-MEL only and it wasn't an issue. I'm not sure whether the US ESTA might have been a complicating factor in this case, but it sounds like there may have been some confusion in the heat of the moment. Not intended as a criticism, but perhaps if JohnK had made it simpler for the check-in agent ("Oh, in that case could you please just check me through to SYD and I'll handle the immigration formalities there"), there might have been a different outcome.

So it is possible for the VA system to check-in for domestic sector only? Interesting indeed. Why did they single me out yesterday? Cheap flight or ESTA? The plot thickens.

And I did ask to be allowed onto BNE-SYD domestic flight to sort this out in SYD but they refused telling me ESTA had to be completed before allowed onto domestic flight. All they had to do was issue me with domestic boarding pass and all would have been fine.

Sorry to hear about your predicament JohnK. It's particularly frustrating when you present them with what would seem to be a reasonable solution (being checked in only BNE/SYD) only to have that request denied.

Have you tried sending a pm to the VA Social Media team on Facebook or Twitter?

I don't do Facebook or Twitter and I wouldn't know where to start. I will have to send feedback via email to a contact I have from a few years ago who assisted with another issue. Not sure if they are still working at Virgin though so may send to customer care first.

If we wonder why airlines don't feel the need to 'fix' situations like this, read what JohnK's said up-thread. In spite of his experience, he is still going to use Virgin enough to retain Gold status. I had a really bad customer service issue with American some years back, and I swore that I'd never use them again. I still do, of course.

I don't need to cut off my nose to spite my face.

Virgin Gold status gives me lounge access with SQ + additional luggage allowance. I would be silly if I did not exploit this perk. SQ is convenient travelling to/from CNX and there are some really cheap flights in SE Asia that will assist to earn VA Gold status which makes it a no brainer as I cannot earn SQ status as I do not do enough flying with SQ. Think I can also family pool the wife's SQ flights.

When I get angry/upset I don't just move on. I will get even for what happened yesterday. At least in my mind I will get even by exploiting VA Gold status. Thanks Virgin.

 

[TheBOSman]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

The only contribution I can make to this thread is from a flight I took once with AA. I flew BOS-PHL-MIA-GRU (Sao Paulo, Brazil). For American passport travelers (which I am), Brazil requires a visa (which I had well in advance due to prior trips and it is good for ten years). I checked in for the flight with a kiosk at BOS, and it allowed me to fly BOS-PHL-MIA before anyone checked to make sure I actually had a visa for Brazil. I had flown with AA previously to Brazil, so they may have had that information on file, but at any rate I was allowed to fly to the international gateway before anyone checked to make sure I could actually fly to Brazil and be allowed in (or had some sort of plan to transit without a visa).

So, as much as it is your fault JohnK for not having the ESTA in advance, VA really could have worked with you better.

 

[boomy]

I'm disappointed that some people here are vigorously defending the airline and choosing to put all the blame on the OP.
Let's put ESTA aside because it's not the main issue as it was completed by 6:10am. The main issue is that the OP had to cancel his USA trip because they were 10 minutes late for domestic hand-luggage-only check-in.

The OP said VA behaved like LCC and many found this comment outrageous. I have little experience with VA but I do have plenty with QF & JQ. I was late to check-in for domestic flights in the past, for various reasons. If between 5-15 minutes QF always reopened check-in, never had an issue. With JQ I was late twice (once only 5 minutes) and both times was told must purchase new ticket or pay some change fee (depends on the fare type) and take the next flight. So, in the OP's case VA did behave more like LCC in my view. Maybe they still carry some bad habits from the time they were DJ.

Why QF can reopen check-in time and time again but VA can't? Does it really make sense to force status pax to miss an international flight because they were 10 min late?! People here (and on Facebook) were quick to blame the OP: "it's your fault, VA simply sticked to the rules!". People don't understand that if they keep blindly encouraging airlines to "stick to the rules" eventually we, the pax, will end up worse off because many of these rules were not written to benefit us but to benefit them!

Why people are so desperate to defend the airlines is beyond me. They are perfectly capable of defending themselves, it's us the customers who need to protected so next time when someone has the misfortune to arrive few minutes late for check-in (and it can happen to anyone) the airlines will do more to help and hopefully it won't result in cancelling the trip.

I'm not saying airlines should automatically reopen check-in for anyone who is a bit late but there is big difference between missing just a domestic flight and missing connection to an international flight which may result in paying hundreds of dollars for change fees or even cancelling the whole trip.

Sorry but I'm not convinced VA did everything they could to avoid the unfortunate outcome in OP's case.

 

[TheInsider]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

So it is possible for the VA system to check-in for domestic sector only? Interesting indeed. Why did they single me out yesterday? Cheap flight or ESTA? The plot thickens.

Of course it's possible to just get the boarding pass for the domestic sector only. Also they probably wouldn't have been able to see the cost of the ticket (it could've been a govt/contracted/sale/incentive/FOC/any type of fare, wouldn't have made any difference). I reckon they were just palming you off and really couldn't be bothered assisting. For a person on an international connection I really find this attitude surprising.

This is not the first time an ESTA hasn't been done before hand, and i'm 100% sure it won't be the last. It happens quite often for all different requirements and countries.

On a side note, a union recently did an 'industry wide' engagement survey that had people from all different parts of the business reply and the results for VA were actually quite disturbing. Massive drop in their engagement levels since the last survey.

 

[nlagalle]

I'm disappointed that some people here are vigorously defending the airline and choosing to put all the blame on the OP.
Let's put ESTA aside because it's not the main issue as it was completed by 6:10am. The main issue is that the OP had to cancel his USA trip because they were 10 minutes late for domestic hand-luggage-only check-in.

yes it is the main issue.. had the OP had an ESTA before he arrived at the airport this thread would not exist. End of story. and you've finalised it with the last comment. 10 minutes late for checkin in the end.

The OP said VA behaved like LCC and many found this comment outrageous. I have little experience with VA but I do have plenty with QF & JQ. I was late to check-in for domestic flights in the past, for various reasons. If between 5-15 minutes QF always reopened check-in, never had an issue. With JQ I was late twice (once only 5 minutes) and both times was told must purchase new ticket or pay some change fee (depends on the fare type) and take the next flight. So, in the OP's case VA did behave more like LCC in my view. Maybe they still carry some bad habits from the time they were DJ.

I'll throw another one here. the OP says VA "behaved like a LCC". how did the OP behave to the check in staff? was he calm and collected or did he get agitated and angry at them?

Why QF can reopen check-in time and time again but VA can't? Does it really make sense to force status pax to miss an international flight because they were 10 min late?! People here (and on Facebook) were quick to blame the OP: "it's your fault, VA simply sticked to the rules!". People don't understand that if they keep blindly encouraging airlines to "stick to the rules" eventually we, the pax, will end up worse off because many of these rules were not written to benefit us but to benefit them!

so we should say the airlines should bend the rules sometimes, but only when it suits us?

Why people are so desperate to defend the airlines is beyond me. They are perfectly capable of defending themselves, it's us the customers who need to protected so next time when someone has the misfortune to arrive few minutes late for check-in (and it can happen to anyone) the airlines will do more to help and hopefully it won't result in cancelling the trip.

Most people here aren't "defending the airline", but merely pointing out the blame here lays with the OP. this was an avoidable incident with a bit of due diligence before the trip began. I mean to top it off it was a mistake fare, so double check you have everything in place before you head off.

I'm not saying airlines should automatically reopen check-in for anyone who is a bit late but there is big difference between missing just a domestic flight and missing connection to an international flight which may result in paying hundreds of dollars for change fees or even cancelling the whole trip.

So when should they? i mean you do it for one person, but not the next? whats the criteria? we complain when flights leave late because of pax. Imagine if you were on that and it was delayed by a late pax that caused you to miss your connecting flight... is it acceptable to them?