The 6:30am BNE-SYD is gone and I am not on it [No ESTA]

[coriander]

Boom tish.

The older I get the more I think things happen for a reason.

+1. One of my life philosophies is "God (or your particular deity or karma) gives you what you need, not what you want." This has occurred *SO* many times in my life when I've been disappointed for something, only to have something immeasurably better fall into my lap (my wife, for example...... no, no not the lap bit ).

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

Also they probably wouldn't have been able to see the cost of the ticket (it could've been a govt/contracted/sale/incentive/FOC/any type of fare, wouldn't have made any difference). I reckon they were just palming you off and really couldn't be bothered assisting. For a person on an international connection I really find this attitude surprising.

I think that's an interesting point. If they couldn't see the fare, I then ask you what is the motivation for denying boarding?

Are you suggesting the VA check-in agent deliberately sabotaged a weekend away in the USA simply because they 'couldn't be bothered'? Not only that, but another staff member (the supervisor) also had the same attitude to ruin someone's trip? That seems implausible.

If true however then I think the OP has a good argument with VA.

 

[JohnK]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

I'll throw another one here. the OP says VA "behaved like a LCC". how did the OP behave to the check in staff? was he calm and collected or did he get agitated and angry at them?

My behaviour was exemplary. I complied with all their requests and did not raise my voice once.

So when should they? i mean you do it for one person, but not the next? whats the criteria? we complain when flights leave late because of pax. Imagine if you were on that and it was delayed by a late pax that caused you to miss your connecting flight... is it acceptable to them?

Provide customer service for everyone in difficult situations. That's what you are paid to do. Hope the staff on duty yesterday are happy with themselves. I will never let this go. And I am going to bring it up on every thread that gets started to praise VA customer service.

Shame I don't do Facebook or Twitter because it would all over their pages.

I think that's an interesting point. If they couldn't see the fare, I then ask you what is the motivation for denying boarding?

Are you suggesting the VA check-in staff deliberately sabotaged a weekend away in the USA simply because the 'couldn't be bothered'? Not only that, but two staff (agent and supervisor) were both in on it and both had the same attitude to ruin someone's trip? That seems implausible.

If true however then I think the OP has a good argument with VA.

I have a good argument with VA. I was denied boarding for a domestic flight. The ESTA is irrelevant for an Australian domestic flight. My USA flight could have been that evening and I could have had plans in SYD that day. So don't allow me to go to SYD for what reason? I am cheating some golden airline rule?

 

[opusman]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

Some people would chalk this up to experience.

Others chalk it up to the universe being out to get them.

 

[TheInsider]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

I think that's an interesting point. If they couldn't see the fare, I then ask you what is the motivation for denying boarding?

They can possibly see the fare if they went into the actual booking and the ticket details, but staff at the airport don't care what's been paid to the airline, as long as it has been paid for and has a ticket issued there are no other issues. Airports don't get involved with mistake fares or fares that look to good to be true. For all we know the staff could've seen the full priced ticket? (if it even shows them the 'mistake' fare, could've been set up in VA ticket system that he actually paid more than what was paid to the TA - maybe the TA paid more to VA, could've been an issue on the TA system?)

Are you suggesting the VA check-in agent deliberately sabotaged a weekend away in the USA simply because they 'couldn't be bothered'? Not only that, but another staff member (the supervisor) also had the same attitude to ruin someone's trip? That seems implausible.

I'm suggesting they would've had other solutions, but no one seemed bothered to even try or go a little bit further than the minimum requirement of "computer says nooooo". It's not like it's a system limitation to just get the BP for the domestic flight.

 

[nlagalle]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

Provide customer service for everyone in difficult situations. That's what you are paid to do. Hope the staff on duty yesterday are happy with themselves. I will never let this go. And I am going to bring it up on every thread that gets started to praise VA customer service.

Lets not forget that the whole reason this happened John, is because you didn't check you needed as ESTA. thats squarely on you. Trying to blame VA for your mistake doesn't give you any high ground. and of course constantly bring up your mistake in other people's threads makes you look childish. you made a c**kup yestreday. Man up and accept it was YOUR​ fault and walk away and learn from it. Constantly trying to blame the airline just makes you look worse.

Shame I don't do Facebook or Twitter because it would all over their pages.

well you can always start

I have a good argument with VA. I was denied boarding for a domestic flight. The ESTA is irrelevant for an Australian domestic flight. My USA flight could have been that evening and I could have had plans in SYD that day. So don't allow me to go to SYD for what reason? I am cheating some golden airline rule?

No you were denied boarding a domestic segment for an international flight. you were denied because you lacked the proper paperwork at checkin. Don't try and twist your mistake into blaming VA and making it their fault. had you done the ESTA at home, you'd have been on the flight. plain and simple.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

I think that's an interesting point. If they couldn't see the fare, I then ask you what is the motivation for denying boarding?

Are you suggesting the VA check-in agent deliberately sabotaged a weekend away in the USA simply because they 'couldn't be bothered'? Not only that, but another staff member (the supervisor) also had the same attitude to ruin someone's trip? That seems implausible.

If true however then I think the OP has a good argument with VA.

Fare is 100% meaningless 100% of the time.
I've been on fully paid overinflated Y tickets and had no different treatment to travelling on ID90. In fact, staff travel often has better treatment!

Some employees are lazy and customer facing roles are not for them. JohnK may well have encountered one of these people.

Also I read an article yesterday about 'going the extra mile' for customers and how the small things (like this) are what drives loyalty more than upgrades, free miles and shiny cards.

 

[TheInsider]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

Lets not forget that the whole reason this happened John, is because you didn't check you needed as ESTA. thats squarely on you. Trying to blame VA for your mistake doesn't give you any high ground. and of course constantly bring up your mistake in other people's threads makes you look childish. you made a c**kup yestreday. Man up and accept it was YOUR​ fault and walk away and learn from it. Constantly trying to blame the airline just makes you look worse.

He has accepted is was his fault, over and over again.

But this thing happens numerous times DAILY, it's not like it has never happened before, and I'm sure the majority of the time there would ALWAYS be a solution in the end.

 

[JohnK]

Fair call, however I think what kpc is advocating is that members should play the ball and not the man. It is all fair and well to say that there haven't been any personal attacks, but the OP may not perceive it that way. I think the OP is a little raw, and has also had this thread posted onto a Facebook group which he has no access to, so he isn't able to defend the personal attacks.

JohnK can definitely polarise members on the forum, however as you rightly mention we are all human and can have things slip our minds. Who knows what JohnK has had going on in the background, as he has hinted at this holiday being a release.

Yes not having the ESTA was the first (and main) error here, but it isn't as if VA can learn a thing from the experience.

I seriously do not understand how a thread on AFF has made to a site where I cannot defend myself and choose not to join for this exact reason. I did not create this thread. It was spun off from a comment I posted in another thread as the situation was occurring.

How was this a holiday? JohnK was doing a same day return to Los Angeles and back. That's no holiday. Its torture.

It's torture for you but it was meant to be a fun couple of days for me. Flying is my hobby. I am flying SYD-MEL-LST-MEL-SYD next Saturday because that is what I enjoy doing.

You also think that this entirely my fault. We will not agree there. I erred by not having an ESTA. This was quickly rectified even if I had a few issues go against me along the way.

I think I handled myself quite well under the circustances. In fact I surprised myself just how calmly I did handle the sitution. Cannot explain the stress I was going through at the time facing a brick wall of VA customer service.

I was denied boarding for a domestic flight not failing to have an ESTA for an international flight later in the day. That is the main issue here. If you don't see it that way then this thread is not for you as you are not going to convince me otherwise.

 

[Foreigner]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

He has accepted is was his fault, over and over again.

But this thing happens numerous times DAILY, it's not like it has never happened before, and I'm sure the majority of the time there would ALWAYS be a solution in the end.

Or lesson learnt

 

[froggerADL]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

Sorry to hear about your missed trip JohnK.

I wonder if there would have been a different outcome if JohnK held a refundable ticket. That would have meant a loss of revenue to VA if he just went home and got a refund, so there would have been a financial incentive to get him on board.

There are many better ways for airlines to handle this situation. A few years ago I met a British relative in Singapore for a trip to Borneo on her way to Adelaide. She had a QF ticket LHR-SIN-ADL with a stopover in SIN and a side trip to Kuching on AirAsia. She had no issues getting into Singapore or Malaysia with her British passport. We were both on the same QF flight from SIN-ADL. When we checked in we were told that she needed an eVisitor visa or she wouldn't be able to travel to Australia. We looked at each other in horror and then were told they could get the visa but it would cost SGD70. Five minutes later we were checked in. So the passenger error was fixed and travel was not disrupted.

I was a QF P1 at the time and this was my fault. I bought the tickets and had no idea about the eVisa. I think I assumed that as I can just rock up at Heathrow with my Aussie passport, the same would apply the other way around. I guess we are protecting ourselves against more convicts!

 

[Abdul_A350]

The VA site states that you will be asked for your entry documentation at the time of check-in. Not at the time of boarding the last possible flight on an itinerary.

To me that still doesn't seem to preclude a double check-in, the first domestic, the second international.

If JohnK proposed a short check-in at 05:40 or soon after for a 06:30 flight and was refused, then I find that quite surprising and at odds with my own recent experience. But the timeline still is not clear to me as to when that solution was proposed, it sounds like the situation may have been complicated before then by all the ESTA business. It is perhaps one of those "you had to be there" situations.Given that it is still unclear (at least to me) after 20 pages, it is not hard to imagine it having been confusing at the time.

Another difference from my own situation may have been that I was flying VA first and then EY rather than both on VA.

 

[nlagalle]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

He has accepted is was his fault, over and over again.

But this thing happens numerous times DAILY, it's not like it has never happened before, and I'm sure the majority of the time there would ALWAYS be a solution in the end.

Sorry but he hasn't. He is still blaming VA for this. that is not accepting fault. And if it happens numerous times daily what happens in those situations? do they get an ESTA in time? or do they miss out on travelling. I am suspecting the latter. PPPPPP is a key here, Prior Planning Prevents Pi$$ Poor Performance..

 

[nlagalle]

I seriously do not understand how a thread on AFF has made to a site where I cannot defend myself and choose not to join for this exact reason. I did not create this thread. It was spun off from a comment I posted in another thread as the situation was occurring.

Probably because this is a public site. And you are more than welcome to join facebook land and see the many different groups there too.

I was denied boarding for a domestic flight not failing to have an ESTA for an international flight later in the day. That is the main issue here. If you don't see it that way then this thread is not for you as you are not going to convince me otherwise.

No you were denied boarding a domestic sector of an international flight. you were denied because you didn't have an ESTA at the time of checking in. had you arrived to the airport 20 mins earlier the end result may have been different. Of course if the ESTA was done at home prior this thread wouldn't exist.

 

[Brisbane Flyer]

IMO...Virgin is an LCC, albeit with some lipstick on the pig to appeal to business travellers.

I'll stick with QF, thanks. If I want to fly an LCC, I go with Southwest or Jetstar and I know what to expect.

Cheers
BF

 

[MEL_Traveller]

To me that still doesn't seem to preclude a double check-in, the first domestic, the second international.

If JohnK proposed a short check-in at 05:40 or soon after for a 06:30 flight and was refused, then I find that quite surprising and at odds with my own recent experience. But the timeline still is not clear to me as to when that solution was proposed, it sounds like the situation may have been complicated before then by all the ESTA business. It is perhaps one of those "you had to be there" situations.Given that it is still unclear (at least to me) after 20 pages, it is not hard to imagine it having been confusing at the time.

Another difference from my own situation may have been that I was flying VA first and then EY rather than both on VA.

The VA Coc might provide some insight.

Clause 13.2 says (Refusal of Carriage):

13.2 You may be refused entry, be requested to leave the aircraft or other means of transport or be physically restrained or removed:

(e) You do not have, or do not appear to have, valid travel documents for your country of origin or destination, or you destroy your travel documents en-route

Destination is defined:

“Destination” means the last destination shown on your Itinerary. When not capitalised, destination refers to a generic point of arrival;

One reading could be that valid travel documentation is required at the time of check-in for the final country - ie USA. Time of check-in is at BNE for the itinerary which is BNE-LAX (although that last point seems to be up for debate).

 

[JohnK]

Probably because this is a public site. And you are more than welcome to join facebook land and see the many different groups there too.

Yes. Clear stupidity. Let's have a laugh at someone's misfortune? Hahaha.

No you were denied boarding a domestic sector of an international flight. you were denied because you didn't have an ESTA at the time of checking in. had you arrived to the airport 20 mins earlier the end result may have been different. Of course if the ESTA was done at home prior this thread wouldn't exist.

You keep harping on and on about domestic sector of an international flight yet employees of an airline have told you that is not a restriction of Sabre or Amadeus and multiple people have also explained situations where the same rules applied to them were not afforded to me.

I will say it again. A domestic flight is a domestic flight. VA check in staff should not be too concerned what happens when I get to the international aiport. If they focused more on customer service this situation would not have occurred.

And I have accepted that I made a mistake in not having an ESTA. And not having an ESTA is not reason to dny boarding on a domestic flight. As soon as it became clear that I was having issues with ESTA application I asked if I could be allowed to go to SYD and clear up the situation there. She went to see her supervisor to short check me through to SYD and that was the last I heard until I was told I would not be going on the flight I was booked to go on when I finally managed to pay for ESTA at ~6:10am. All of this happened so quickly.

Not sure what you are trying to achieve.

Some people would chalk this up to experience.

Others chalk it up to the universe being out to get them.

Are the cheap shots really necessary? I have a little more respect for you.

P.S. I would like this thread to continue. There is some really useful information that is coming to light here.

 

[Blackswan]

The VA Coc might provide some insight.

Clause 13.2 says (Refusal of Carriage):



Destination is defined:



One reading could be that valid travel documentation is required at the time of check-in for the final country - ie USA. Time of check-in is at BNE for the itinerary which is BNE-LAX (although that last point seems to be up for debate).

Interesting. Clause 13.2 (e) has the word "destination" with a lowercase d. Therefore, could it be argued that the last desination shown on the intinerary doesn't apply?

I'm very sorry to hear that you missed out on your trip, JohnK. I've keep swaying back and forth as to culpability. Try not to stay negative and hold a grudge. Life is far too short. It just wasn't meant to be...

 

[RooFlyer]

Originally Posted by RooFlyer Given the maintenance of hurt victimology of the OP, and denial of fault on his part, I suspect we might be close to it!

" ... as long as [Virgin] are able to draw enough blood out of the victim ..."? Given the extremity of those sorts of comments, made in the cool light of a new day, one could be forgiven for entertaining idle thoughts about what the temperature was like as this unfolded, and whether that had anything to do with Virgin's actions or non actions.

I am really glad you find someone's misfortune funny.<snip>

Honestly, if you can construe what I wrote (and re-quoted here) as finding the situation 'funny', then I am inclined to question your perception of what actually happened at check-in and to believe it less.

Same for this - a welcome to join Facebook etc ... becomes laughter at your misfortune?

Originally Posted by nlagalle Probably because this is a public site. And you are more than welcome to join facebook land and see the many different groups there too.

Yes. Clear stupidity. Let's have a laugh at someone's misfortune? Hahaha..

By all means complain to VA customer relations about your experience; I'd be interested in their reply, if you'd care to share it.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

He has accepted is was his fault, over and over again.

.

No he has been blamimg VA. He has said over and over again VA is at fault.

The endless carry on and comments like he will never move on and will bring this up in EVERY thread are so over the top its actually become a joke.