The 6:30am BNE-SYD is gone and I am not on it [No ESTA]

[RooFlyer]

All I want to say is 'thank goodness for my travel agent', who I have used for around 30 years now. All the Apps in the world might make life easier for busy executives on the run but a quiet nudge from my TA has made sure I have not forgotten a Visa or had to scramble last minute.

<snip>

Yes, amen to that. First thing my TA does when I start booking an international trip is to let me know of visa requirements, in case my passport has to be sent away and I'm doing other travel during that time. The visas and ESTAs I have are all on their file.

When I mentioned that I was planning a trip to Iran as part of an up-coming trip to Turkey, they reminded me that this would make me ineligible for an ESTA. So I cancelled the Iran part (although I've now been convinced that that might have been an over-reaction and that I could get by with a regular USA visa, just not in the time frame of this trip). I doubt any carrier or third party site would have told me that if I booked with them.

The TA will even go to non-commission booking sites to book a flight or hotel that's not in the GDS and wraps up anything I've booked direct (eg Accor hotels, or a points redemption flight) into the overall itinerary, checking transfer times etc etc.

Maybe that's why I almost never get into the major dramas that are frequently expressed in AFF and sometimes have less sympathy for those that do.

 

[TheInsider]

* In Australia, you can be allowed to check in on the domestic sector of an international flight that is to the USA, without an ESTA? The computer will allow it?
* You can be short checked to the departure port (without an ESTA) without being checked through to the international leg?
* What is the process of re-opening a flight (who says what to whom... who has the say?) and at what point does it become 'un-openable' for late arrivals (ie pax's own fault, not an emergency etc)

... genuine questions. If you can add certainty to those issues, we'll all be better informed.

Yes the computer will allow the person to be checked in, you just select that one flight basically. This is from knowledge on Sabre and Amadeus.

The ESTA is only checked on the international leg, it won't get checked on the domestic leg because it's not revelent. This includes APP checks for Australian immigration.

Usually someone with permission or authority can 'open' the flight. Even so they still have to go by their policy's with the time frame (which is - 30), but if the staff were willing to help (especially with international connections), they definitely can and has been done many times before. It just seems like they weren't willing to offer any solutions or any help at all, and it shouldn't be like that for any premium carrier QF or VA.

 

[mannej]

How was this a holiday? JohnK was doing a same day return to Los Angeles and back. That's no holiday. Its torture.

Each to their own - it is still time to clear the head is it not?

 

[TheInsider]

I'm not saying that if you arrive late for a flight you can argue the point of getting checked in. What i meant was it could be done if really needed to by the appropiate supervisors. Although in this case the OP wasn't late for check-in, he did all the right things (expect for the esta).
Also shouldn't matter if he was there 4hrs before or 40min, he is still there within the required check-in time..

 

[RooFlyer]

Yes the computer will allow the person to be checked in, you just select that one flight basically. This is from knowledge on Sabre and Amadeus.

The ESTA is only checked on the international leg, it won't get checked on the domestic leg because it's not revelent. This includes APP checks for Australian immigration.

Usually someone with permission or authority can 'open' the flight. Even so they still have to go by their policy's with the time frame (which is - 30), but if the staff were willing to help (especially with international connections), they definitely can and has been done many times before. It just seems like they weren't willing to offer any solutions or any help at all, and it shouldn't be like that for any premium carrier QF or VA.

Thanks - interesting. Yet the ESTA was checked at BNE, and found wanting. This my own experience too, many times - when I check in at HBA to SYD or MEL and then connecting to a flight to the USA. The ESTA check that is, not the found wanting bit. Usually expressed as 'I see you have your ESTA mr RooFlyer ... Good ...'

I still don't agree that the flight should have been re-opened, with all the attendant permissions, discussions etc on the chance ( from the airlines point of view), that when they then go to check in the pax, the ESTA has cleared in their system. what if their system still said no? What then? Who gets it in the neck? Maybe it was the pax having a try-on ( again, from their point of view, not mine).

I don't disagree that the airline could have done more, but as I mentioned above, how much staff time was available to help someone who didn't have the paperwork in order? So many pax have so many 'boarding issues' ( intoxicated, late, medical etc) it's a wonder flights ever get away on time. I like my status perks as much as the next person, but I think this was a situation where being Gold just wasn't elite enough.

next time I fly VA to MEL or SYD I'll ask the check in agent about the situation.

 

[TheInsider]

You're correct by saying the esta is checked, this is because you are checking in for the flight that requires the esta (2 flights). The domestic portion doesn't need it obviously, so he could've been offered the solution of just getting the boarding pass/checking in for the bne to syd flight and then once getting into SYD going through the check-in proces again, or even asking for the onward boarding pass before getting on the first dometic flght.

I'm not saying you or anyone else is wrong about the esta, it's just there are ways around assisting someone if they really wanted to. If it was purely an international flight and had no esta then absolutely wouldn't be able to travel, but since there was a domestic flight first off then there are more solutions available.

 

[JohnPhelan]

Was John K in the wrong for not getting his ESTA? Yes

Was John K unlucky because a series of things leading to his check-in went wrong? Yes

Could VA have made an effort to be more helpful in the situation? Yes

 

[JohnK]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

One irony is that VA1 left the gate 19 minutes late this morning - not that those at BNE would have known it were to be so at 6am.

Hillarious. The domestic flight left 9 minutes early and the international flight left 19 minutes late. Story of my life and that is a serious comment not a joke.

No. The contract is between the passenger and the airline. Orbitz is an agent of the airline.

Virgin did not want to know. All they did was waive some stupid 24 hour rule which I do not understand. I think it means changes can be made to the booking as long as they are able to draw enough blood out of the victim.

no John, you are to blame but not double checking you needed an ESTA. that's not VA's or anyone else's responsibility. As for other pax wasting time you can't do much about that either. they didn't fail you, you failed yourself but not checking what was required before you left.
And what could they have done? you missed your original flight and depending on your fare rules there may not have been many options. we've read the *may* have done it differently. You might have ended up in the same boat too.

I was not late.

I was early for domestic flight and I had ESTA in place ~3h 40m before international departure. In fact check-in was not even open in Sydney for international flight? Why are you ignoring these facts? This is not a story. We have now had 2 people from Qantas confirm the same thing I have been telling you.

You are knocking me. Stop blaming me. It was not my fault. The only mistake I made was not have an ESTA in the morning but that mistake was rectified well before check-in opened for international flight. All Virgin did was try to screw me.

And I forgot another thing. When I was frantically trying to fix the ESTA application the check-in person said to me they were going to see supervisor to get me on the domestic flight. I was carried away trying to wade through the stupid ESTA website on my mobile and the first I knew they were not checking me in was when I showed them the ESTA approval. She didn't keep me up to date of what was happening.

Thanks a lot Virgin.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Back to blaming Virgin and its outright 'not my fault'.

This kind of mentality is why people react the way they do to you JohnK. You say you accept fault but it sure doesn't seem like it.

 

[get me outta here]

JohnK, I'm sorry this has happened to,you. I know I'd be very upset with myself and them. Every now and then something like this happens to remind us to being more vigilant about things that might be taken for granted.

 

[get me outta here]

kpc, don't go away. The same people who are harsh are always here or over there, either in the foreground or the background. Just ignore them, good on yer for expressing your disappointment.

Nicely put boomy esp. the last paragraph. ..I just don't understand the negativity towards John here and on the other forum where I have also expressed my disappointment! In fact, I'm going to take a time out from all my online travel forums, and reassess the degree of my participation!

 

[JohnK]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

You're correct by saying the esta is checked, this is because you are checking in for the flight that requires the esta (2 flights). The domestic portion doesn't need it obviously, so he could've been offered the solution of just getting the boarding pass/checking in for the bne to syd flight and then once getting into SYD going through the check-in proces again, or even asking for the onward boarding pass before getting on the first dometic flght.

As I mention she told me she was going to see about getting me checked in for domestic flight only. Obviously that did not happen. The next thing I know is she is giving me options about flying BNE-LAX as there were 4 seats left on that flight.

If they had given me a boarding pass for domestic flight first then they could also have issued me with boarding pass for international flight once ESTA was approved. If not there then at least at the international transfer desk in SYD as the ESTA was approved by that stage.

I will keep saying it. Virgin abandoned me when they could have tried to help. That is how it feels to me. Sorry if people don't see it that way.

JohnK, I'm sorry this has happened to,you. I know I'd be very upset with myself and them. Every now and then something like this happens to remind us to being more vigilant about things that might be taken for granted.

I am still a firm believer in things happening for a reason. A lot of people cannot possibly understand how a series of events that started around the time I picked up the car from the airport the night before ended where we are now.

It is spooky. Only if this is your first experience but I have been through this type of situation many times in the past. It did feel eerie on Friday night when I took the wrong turn 2-3 times. I was thinking to myself this cannot be good but that is now hindsight. I can sense the future and not for the first time either. Hard to explain.

 

[russ]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

If you can sense the future, why didn't you apply for an ESTA beforehand?!

 

[marki]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

Has this thread run it self out??:mrgreen:

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Has this thread run it self out??:mrgreen:

Absolutely

 

[mrs.dr.ron]

 

[pippen_2k]

I don't post often but I enjoyed this thread, good read on a Sunday morning

 

[eric2011]

Are we finished yet....

 

[Conrad_S]

Are we finished yet....

I hope not

 

[RooFlyer]

<snip>
Virgin did not want to know. All they did was waive some stupid 24 hour rule which I do not understand. I think it means changes can be made to the booking as long as they are able to draw enough blood out of the victim.<snip>
It was not my fault. <snip>

Are we finished yet....

Given the maintenance of hurt victimology of the OP, and denial of fault on his part, I suspect we might be close to it!

" ... as long as [Virgin] are able to draw enough blood out of the victim ..."? Given the extremity of those sorts of comments, made in the cool light of a new day, one could be forgiven for entertaining idle thoughts about what the temperature was like as this unfolded, and whether that had anything to do with Virgin's actions or non actions.