The COVID-19 vaccine rollout in Australia has begun

[Batterytraveller]

It is entirely anecdotal, but most under 40s of my acquaintance seem to be getting vaxxed today.

 

[Flying mermaid]

I am now really confused: 2 weeks ago AZ was so risky it would only be recommended to persons older than 59; but now AZ is fine for people younger than 40.

I think it’s more a case that the risk of getting Covid was almost nonexistent but there was a minuscule risk of getting clots. The balance has changed a bit since then, as there is now a real risk of getting Covid and so more important to get people vaccinated as soon as possible. It’s all about balancing one risk against another, not absolutes.

 

[JB expat]

Fair questions. And yes I do choose flu vax based on whether it is the tri-valent or quadri-valent type - I select the quadri-valent even though I have to pay more for it. And I do ask every year about the estimated efficacy of the shot. Not that I would refuse to have it if the efficacy in that year was low, I just like to know.

And on antibiotics, I am personally happy to take generic brands (these are supposed to be exactly the same as the branded ones), so I regularly get something that is not exactly as the doctor prescribed in terms of brand name, although apparently still the same underlying medication. My point is that I have a choice, even if it is an illusion of choice. When I used to get vaccines at the travel doctor, back in the days when overseas trips for work and pleasure were a thing, I was regularly offered a choice of different brands and combinations of vaccines for that purpose. And malaria preventions - there are so many different options that are made available to you, quite different treatment types. The doctor advises you and you choose what works best for you.

So yes, I do like to have at least the appearance of choice about my medical treatment, and in fact this is how I expect to work with my medical carers (and other advisers I have in my life). They are advisers, not dictators. They certainly have expertise that I am happy to respect and I actually almost always take their advice. However, I have had enough slightly unusual medical events in my life to know that doctors, like anyone, are not infallible, they don't know everything about me and ultimately it is my choice what I chose to do with my health. As it happens, my choice is almost always to do what the doctor advises me. However, in all aspects of my life, I absolutely detest being railroaded. I would like to be consulted and treated like an individual with a brain and a very clear self interest in getting the best care for my situation, rather than a number to be processed according to some random determinant like my age, especially in the face of the constantly changing and frequently inconsistent expert advice about AZ, for example. I understand that if facts change then advice needs to change - that is why I especially react to the dogmatic, inflexible "we are telling you" tone of the expert advice about these vaccines for the 60 plus age group. For example, apparently as of today, it's fine for anyone to take AZ. Yesterday, that was not at all the case. That's a pretty big swing. And it's not the first swing.

I recognise that it is somewhat ridiculous that I feel so upset about this, given that I would in fact take the AZ by choice. However, being told to take AZ, and only AZ, with no choice offered, or go unvaccinated, just drives me wild. And despite that, I took AZ anyway.

you sound just like my husband...I will leave it at that (we are still married lol but boy is he stubborn and hates to be told to do anything - he needs to feel like it is a choice)

 

[Pushka]

I think it’s more a case that the risk of getting Covid was almost nonexistent but there was a minuscule risk of getting clots. The balance has changed a bit since then, as there is now a real risk of getting Covid and so more important to get people vaccinated as soon as possible. It’s all about balancing one risk against another, not absolutes.

You really need to be the Vacc spokesperson because you explained this situation very well.

 

[JB expat]

Not to mention that while there has been great focus and alarm at a small rate of problems, that that the delay in vaccinating the population has delayed, and will continue, to delay medical treatment and surgeries to a much greater number.

From a numbers perspective we have improved the health outcome for a few at the expense of many more.

Overall in my opinion, the health consequences of not rolling out AZ quicker ( ie cancer treatments, surgeries, mental health problems, asthmatics requiring hospitalisation due to delay in seeking treatment) has created more poor health outcomes than it prevented.

And that is without factoring in the very obvious health benefits of reduced transmission and infection of individuals.

correct - but for most that means thinking beyond themselves which in today's world seems to be asking too much of people

 

[lovetravellingoz]

It is entirely anecdotal, but most under 40s of my acquaintance seem to be getting vaxxed today.

I hope you have a huge number of acquaintances then

 

[RooFlyer]

I think it’s more a case that the risk of getting Covid was almost nonexistent but there was a minuscule risk of getting clots. The balance has changed a bit since then, as there is now a real risk of getting Covid and so more important to get people vaccinated as soon as possible. It’s all about balancing one risk against another, not absolutes.

Exactly! And that’s always been the message: “what we are recommending today is a result of balancing competing risks”. The virus changes, the risks change, what we know about vaccine effects grows, the recommendations change. I honestly can’t see what’s so difficult to understand about that.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

correct - but for most that means thinking beyond themselves which in today's world seems to be asking too much of people

The Aussie ethos is meant to be looking out for others and not just oneself. It will be a tragedy if that goes by the wayside.

Unfortunately I don't think that the Covid vaccination program has been managed or promoted well at all. It has wrongly gone down the path of being about risk to the individual. Successful vaccination programs need to take a community wide view.

It is one reason why you hear some expressing the view that they can wait to get vaccinated as "they" are not at risk now. Rtaht than understanding that everyone, or nearly everyone, needs to get vaccinated so that when risk come that the community, including them, is protected.


The Australian Red Cross Blood Bank was busy when I donated this week. Its is very successful program which is about community benefits in the main and it is promoted that way. But yes it also means that blood and other products are there if you ever need them as well.

People need to understand that the vaccination rollout is not just to protect them (which it does), but it is more about everyone being protected.

 

[Batterytraveller]

I hope you have a huge number of acquaintances then

As an elderly curmudgeon of 41 I am thoroughly shunned by 39 year old striplings in the first flush of youth.

 

[Spongbob]

Exactly! And that’s always been the message: “what we are recommending today is a result of balancing competing risks”. The virus changes, the risks change, what we know about vaccine effects grows, the recommendations change. I honestly can’t see what’s so difficult to understand about that.

So the AZ risks have not changed in the last 2 weeks?
But the risk of getting COVID has increased?

Is there anything else I should understand?

 

[RAM]

Yes you have ATAGI to blame for that confusion - but VIC and NSW members did not agree with this which has lead to a work around now, for people to access AZ if they want it from GP’s to start with (VIC have flagged they are looking at making available via mass vax hubs too).

GP’s are taking appointments and calls directly right now - and I hear the online booking tool is being updated as we speak too.

No the ATAGI advice has not changed.

This is being made clear by Greg Hunt when asked why ATAGI changed their advice. His response "They haven't."

This is a case of the Fed Govt NOT following their expert medical advice.

 

[Lynda2475]

“what we are recommending today is a result of balancing competing risks”. The virus changes, the risks change, what we know about vaccine effects grows, the recommendations change.

So the AZ risks have not changed in the last 2 weeks?

No they have not, in fact the modelling posted by Princess Fiona last night shows an increase from previous 3 to 5 TTS cases per 100k for 40-49s.

But the risk of getting COVID has increased?

No, the numbers do not currently indicate an increase in poor health outcomes in this latest cluster.

One could argue the risk of adverse outcome now is already significantly lower, since a good portion of the vulnerable are fully vaccinated and as are the responsible front line workers.

Hospital admissions aren't much different to same period last year in NSW.

I do not think we will have a repeat of Melbourne second wave level of cases, hospital admissions and deaths, because restrictions have been imposed before numbers got beyond contract tracing capability.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

So the AZ risks have not changed in the last 2 weeks?
But the risk of getting COVID has increased?

Is there anything I should understand?

The risk was always there. It was just some living in "bubble" Australia wrongly seemed to be of the view that the emerging more transmissible strains that were clearly on show internationally would not ever impact here.

Well now as in a bushfire the wind has blown our way and the embers have started to burn. Now if you have a well prepared property and bushfire plan, the impact can be less. If you have been living in an overgrown setting, have not done backburns, built firebreaks, installed firefighting sprinklers/pumps etc before then you are in trouble.


So you can wait to have a crisis, or you can do the preparation in advise to prevent or minimise the harm.


With Covid once we achieve having enough of our population being vaccinated the more we can minimise negative issues in health, social and financial areas.

We might even be able to travel more freely throughout Australia and even hopefully internationally. You certainly will not get reasonable international travel without a high vaccination rate having been achieved.

 

[Spongbob]

... Well now as in a bushfire the wind has blown our way and the embers have started to burn. Now if you have a well prepared property and bushfire plan, the impact can be less. If you have been living in an overgrown setting, have not done backburns, built firebreaks, installed firefighting sprinklers/pumps etc before then you are in trouble.

I am still dealing with COVID issues.
Please do not add to my confusion with a complex analogy (but the effort is appreciated).

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Last night

View attachment 251698

This morning

And Clare, from the Daily Telegraph, has wasted no time in acting on the news that she herself reported

View attachment 251697

The "heaps and heaps of available appointments" being why the the GP utilisation rate was low. ie It is nothing at all to do with the GPs not being efficient, and everything to do with that they mainly just had access to AZ where the demand was being suppressed.

Well done Clare!

Well under 24hours from being allowed to get vaccinated to actually getting vaccinated. Plus as she says "I'm happy to do my part"

 

[jase05]

Hunt undermining AZ, someone needs to gag him

 

[JB expat]

The risk was always there. It was just some living in "bubble" Australia wrongly seemed to be of the view that the emerging more transmissible strains that were clearly on show internationally would not ever impact here.

Well now as in a bushfire the wind has blown our way and the embers have started to burn. Now if you have a well prepared property and bushfire plan, the impact can be less. If you have been living in an overgrown setting, have not done backburns, built firebreaks, installed firefighting sprinklers/pumps etc before then you are in trouble.


So you can wait to have a crisis, or you can do the preparation in advise to prevent or minimise the harm.


With Covid once we achieve having enough of our population being vaccinated the more we can minimise negative issues in health, social and financial areas.

We might even be able to travel more freely throughout Australia and even hopefully internationally. You certainly will not get reasonable international travel without a high vaccination rate having been achieved.

Agree. The overall message that "this is not a race" was so wrong - wrong on a national level and wrong on an individual level. Sent the wrong message/set the wrong tone.

 

[Pushka]

Interesting.
Experts are urging the government to bring forward the second dose of the AstraZeneca jab from 12 weeks to eight as authorities scramble to contain the nationwide Covid-19 outbreak totalling 130 cases.

It comes after doctors warned of an oversupply of the AstraZeneca jab, some of which is approaching its used-by date.

Post automatically merged: Jun 29, 2021

Agree. The overall message that "this is not a race" was so wrong - wrong on a national level and wrong on an individual level. Sent the wrong message/set the wrong tone.

That line made me furious. Still does.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Agree. The overall message that "this is not a race" was so wrong - wrong on a national level and wrong on an individual level. Sent the wrong message/set the wrong tone.

Indeed. And not only is it a race, but it is a race where we all need to be competing in.


I am reminded of the contestants on MasterChef, or Survivor, who were sent home after not using their Immunity Pin, or Immunity Idol. Neither the pin per idol work if not used.


Here we all sit in Australia with many doses of AZ that could have been used. But like the immunity pins and idols, they only work if used.


And with vaccinations we need to remember that their community action helps to protect the individual if the vaccination does not work for them. Note that vaccinations whether they be Pfizer or AZ do not prevent everyone from getting infected (ie Perth lady no, Perth lady's husband yes (both with single doses), Arcare resident with both Pfizer doses no).

 

[JB expat]

I wonder how many of the people who are waiting for THE Pfizer, grabbed all the toilet paper they could and/or accepted scratchy, bottom of the shelf toilet paper as the count down to lockdown began...

Indeed. And not only is it a race, but it is a race where we all need to be competing in.


I am reminded of the contestants on MasterChef, or Survivor, who were sent home after not using their Immunity Pin, or Immunity Idol. Neither the pin per idol work if not used.


Here we all sit in Australia with many doses of AZ that could have been used. But like the immunity pins and idols, they only work if used.


And with vaccinations we need to remember that their community action helps to protect the individual if the vaccination does not work for them. Note that vaccinations whether they be Pfizer or AZ do not prevent everyone from getting infected (ie Perth lady no, Perth lady's husband yes (both with single doses), Arcare resident with both Pfizer doses no).

Totally agree - what we had was the luxury of planning time as we awaited the inevitable vaccine. The logistics of the rollout, the set up of an online system (tested prior to live), registering for text messages - so much could have been done. Communication around the importance of vaccinating as soon as one became eligible. Talking about carrots and sticks. The squandered time, lack of creativity, lack of foresight - as I have said before, no imagination was needed - just look up and overseas and PLAN for similar events here. ugh.