The demise of Qantas international flights

[QPProletarian]

I'd actually like to see BNE-LAX-LHR, SYD-LAX-LHR, MEL-LAX-LHR and have them concentrate on capacity there, serving both markets.

 

[Melburnian1]

QPProleterian, I assume that you are suggesting QF do something similar to what NZ does - fly from Australasia to LAX then terminate the flight in LHR with intermediate traffic rights not just 'own stopover' passengers being allowed to travel LAX - LHR - LAX?

 

[QPProletarian]

QPProleterian, I assume that you are suggesting QF do something similar to what NZ does - fly from Australasia to LAX then terminate the flight in LHR with intermediate traffic rights not just 'own stopover' passengers being allowed to travel LAX - LHR - LAX?

Even codeshare on BA's new A380 would work for me.

 

[aviator]

It would be nice to have ADL-AKL back. They dumped this a few years ago. Essentially Qantas has abandoned Adelaide as an international destination. I am waiting for the other shore to drop and Emirates swoop and takeover completely.

 

[Mattg]

On the topic of flights which are more expensive if you book orginating in Australia; I had a look, as an example, at a random flight in two months' time from SYD-NRT return on QF metal. If booked from Australia, the cheapest price was AUD$1356. If booked from Japan, however, the cost is 58,000 Yen or, even with the recent AUD depreciation, just AUD$668 for the same flights (just in the other direction).

I then had a look at SYD-JNB to see if it would be a similar story. Booking ex-SYD is currently $1701 return - note that this is a rare sale price, normally this would cost $2155. Ex-JNB, the return trip is just ZAR$7170, or AUD$801! Even though the fare ex-SYD is a sale fare and the dollar recently depreciated significantly, the fare originating in Australia is more than double the price! :shock:

 

[RobJ]

Into Adelaide we have daily SQ, Emirates, and several days a week MAS, Cathay Pacific and I think Air NZ and Virgin International flights. No red roo to be seen anywhere.

It's hard to believe Qantas couldn't at least break even with a few ADL-SNG a week, which would provide a good basis for connections. HKG would be even better, but thank God for Cathay.

Wonder what happens to Qantas when the next mid-east war starts or the Arab Spring and/or Jihadists reach Dubai.

 

[zachary.august]

I've had it on good authority that EK actually approached QF about a tie up and QF abandoned their then-international plan. Pre EK they were planning on adding a codeshare to MXP and AMS with CX and they were confident of getting the French to approve daily rights to CDG and start operating SYD-HKG-CDG with the mixed A380, 747 schedule. So had EK not happened QF planned to be operating by 2014 SYD-HKG-CDG, SYD-SIN-LHR, MEL-SIN-LHR, SYD-SIN-FRA. This is why they planned First lounges in SIN and HKG. So I guess one could say that EK ruined this.. QF then planned once they got their 787 to operate a Jetconnect style airline based in HKG to operate flights to Europe.

 

[elbarto]

Even codeshare on BA's new A380 would work for me.

Why do you want to go the long way?

 

[harvyk]

Wonder what happens to Qantas when the next mid-east war starts or the Arab Spring and/or Jihadists reach Dubai.

If that ever happens then there will be quite a few middle eastern airlines with much more of a problem than QF who can very easily return to Asia as a stop over point.
AFAIK DXB is a fairly westernized society. Yes it has a few laws which I don't agree with, on the other hand SIN is no picnic legal wise either.

 

[harvyk]

I've had it on good authority that EK actually approached QF about a tie up and QF abandoned their then-international plan. Pre EK they were planning on adding a codeshare to MXP and AMS with CX and they were confident of getting the French to approve daily rights to CDG and start operating SYD-HKG-CDG with the mixed A380, 747 schedule. So had EK not happened QF planned to be operating by 2014 SYD-HKG-CDG, SYD-SIN-LHR, MEL-SIN-LHR, SYD-SIN-FRA. This is why they planned First lounges in SIN and HKG. So I guess one could say that EK ruined this.. QF then planned once they got their 787 to operate a Jetconnect style airline based in HKG to operate flights to Europe.

This would make sense in some respects considering that "Red Q" was all the rage until just prior that EK moved onto the radar.

 

[sjd]

On the topic of flights which are more expensive if you book orginating in Australia; I had a look, as an example, at a random flight in two months' time from SYD-NRT return on QF metal. If booked from Australia, the cheapest price was AUD$1356. If booked from Japan, however, the cost is 58,000 Yen or, even with the recent AUD depreciation, just AUD$668 for the same flights (just in the other direction).

I then had a look at SYD-JNB to see if it would be a similar story. Booking ex-SYD is currently $1701 return - note that this is a rare sale price, normally this would cost $2155. Ex-JNB, the return trip is just ZAR$7170, or AUD$801! Even though the fare ex-SYD is a sale fare and the dollar recently depreciated significantly, the fare originating in Australia is more than double the price! :shock:

To be fair to QF they are not the only airline that prices this way, all the others do to. Seems there is still some tyranny of distance, perhaps only mild irritant of distance these days.

 

[Grandma's Wings "]

I would dearly love to see Qantas fly direct from SYD /YVR like they use to....I think their only competition would be Air Canada ( stand to be corrected there)... Just saying that's all... It's a pity but it seems the writing is on the wall with Qantas breaking up everywhere....Ugghhh!!!! so disappointing...

Have a wonderful Day
Grandma's Wings .

 

[fiscal]

On the topic of flights which are more expensive if you book orginating in Australia; I had a look, as an example, at a random flight in two months' time from SYD-NRT return on QF metal. If booked from Australia, the cheapest price was AUD$1356. If booked from Japan, however, the cost is 58,000 Yen or, even with the recent AUD depreciation, just AUD$668 for the same flights (just in the other direction).

I then had a look at SYD-JNB to see if it would be a similar story. Booking ex-SYD is currently $1701 return - note that this is a rare sale price, normally this would cost $2155. Ex-JNB, the return trip is just ZAR$7170, or AUD$801! Even though the fare ex-SYD is a sale fare and the dollar recently depreciated significantly, the fare originating in Australia is more than double the price! :shock:

I know. It is shocking. I also did something similar and saved $900 each for PER - LHR return flight by tweaking things. Now that EK is the QF replacement in Perth, we now prefer to fly MAS when traveling in Y. We like our two seaters and daytime flights, so we do PER-KUL, Transit Hotel, KUL-LHR-KUL, Airport Hotel + Day in KL and then KUL-PER all with daytime departures. Normally MAS are very reasonable, but for some reason this December (after Christmas) the fares have risen to about $2850. So, we will now do AirAsia X to KUL and the rest on MAS on 2 tickets, and have saved $900 each. With the overnighters there is little risk with delays etc, so we think we got a better deal. So the reality is that airline is prepared to take advantage of us during holiday periods.

 

[QPProletarian]

Why do you want to go the long way?

Well, I'd actually prefer to fly over the continental US, to get the Wifi onboard for that part of the trip. I believe AA is even going to offer it on the transatlantic flights as well.

Price wise, seems fairly competitive vs DXB transfer as well.

 

[Sunstar]

Personally, I would love to see 2 or 3 flights a week, at minimum, to Brussels. It is a great starting point to see Europe after all, or bring back Charles De Gaulle. Currently, Qantas only flies to LHR, which is a joke, especially I you don't plan on visiting England, sure, a lot of people might, but no Frankfurt, no Rome, no Madrid, no Rome/Milan, no Paris, no Amsterdam, no Stockholm etc. . . just London, come on AJ, we want more options, they don't have to be daily. And yes, as mentioned in earlier comments, with the the route no longer going through Asia, if you wanted to go via Asia, you have to code share with BA and my big problem with that is that BA does not extend all the emerald and platinum privileges, let alone trying to upgrade using points or have the extra Kg with your luggage.
So in a nutshell, more european cities, and if a flight is booked through Qantas and some of the flights are codeshared, one should still be able to use points to upgrade on the code share flights as well.
anyway, my 2 cents worth

 

[Mattg]

Personally, I would love to see 2 or 3 flights a week, at minimum, to Brussels. It is a great starting point to see Europe after all, or bring back Charles De Gaulle. Currently, Qantas only flies to LHR, which is a joke, especially I you don't plan on visiting England, sure, a lot of people might, but no Frankfurt, no Rome, no Madrid, no Rome/Milan, no Paris, no Amsterdam, no Stockholm etc. . . just London, come on AJ, we want more options, they don't have to be daily. And yes, as mentioned in earlier comments, with the the route no longer going through Asia, if you wanted to go via Asia, you have to code share with BA and my big problem with that is that BA does not extend all the emerald and platinum privileges, let alone trying to upgrade using points or have the extra Kg with your luggage.
So in a nutshell, more european cities, and if a flight is booked through Qantas and some of the flights are codeshared, one should still be able to use points to upgrade on the code share flights as well.
anyway, my 2 cents worth

I completely agree. I'm not sure Brussels would be the city of choice for a second (or third!) European flight, but BER or CDG would seem to be no brainers!

 

[Mr_Orange]

and if a flight is booked through Qantas and some of the flights are codeshared, one should still be able to use points to upgrade on the code share flights as well.

I agree. I've always thought that code-shared flights, with a QF flight number, should be upgradable with points.

 

[Polbathic]

For those of us who have moved our loyalty to VA (Virgin Australia) - we note that VA have beaten QF to the line and already teamed up with AB (airberlin) utilising EY (Etihad) with travel to Berlin via Abu Dhabi from BNE, SYD, MEL. Adelaide is a bit neglected in the international stakes but we have SQ daily (twice daily certain days)(Singapore), EK daily (Dubai), CX daily (Hong Kong), NZ 4 days (seasonal up to daily) (Auckland), MH daily (two different departure time options)(Kuala Lumpur), VA 5 days (with seasonal variations) (Denpasar). From October we will be joined by D7 (Air Asia X) 5 days (Kuala Lumpur).

Keep in mind that VA now code share with SQ and NZ, and QF code shares with EK and is in alliance with CX and MH, the options aren't too bad. What would be nice is someone flying direct to BKK from Adelaide.

We don't think it is smart that QF have withdrawn from Adelaide international, but we don't particularly miss them! I somehow doubt that QF will be back in a hurry, even after it starts getting its 787s or other replacement aircraft, the international market is relatively small but loyal. Other airlines have been quick to capitalise on QFs fiddling, witness SQ, CX, MH, EK and NZ growth in this market place. EK announced 5 days and went within a month to daily when they started up earlier this year!

 

[justcallmeryan]

I agree entirely with your observation.
As I previously worked in the Tourism industry in Canada, I have heard from numerous sources that since Qantas dropped out of the YVR > SYD route, this has turned into one of , if not the Most, lucrative route for Air Canada (AC). Air Canada are routinely oversold on this route & during the previous Canadian Winter/ski season (December- February 2012) Air Canada in fact increased capacity as a result of increased demand.

No Doubt in my mind that if Qantas were to return on this route, even if it was just 2-3 times per week to start with, this route would be a winner. Although I have never flown this route with AC, numerous people have commented (Particularly Canadian Citizens) that the AC Product & service offered is below par on this long haul route.

Qantas could certainly provide a far superior product that would be warmly received from numerous target markets.

Only snafu with this plan is that due to AC being pretty much the only major carrier in Canada, most Canadians would opt to travel with them over QF for points, status and all that. I would suspect that you would mostly get OZ based passengers traveling to Canada on a QF service (which wouldn't be a bad thing) and it certainly would help prices on that route which are ridiculous. I am a canuck expat living in SYD and used to travel AC to YYZ all the time to avoid US customs, but have gone back to transiting through LAX as the savings are worth the extra time (for me anyway).

From a price perspective this would be amazing, but I suspect a second US destination would serve them better as they would get more traffic from AA. I tend to think this is unlikely though as I haven't seen much interest in other US carriers to add services to OZ, unless I've missed something?

 

[BD1959]

To be fair to QF they are not the only airline that prices this way, all the others do to. Seems there is still some tyranny of distance, perhaps only mild irritant of distance these days.

All the others, eh?

I just love statements like this!! So, a quick look at various airlines .... all outbound 8SEP return 8OCT ... all from their own websites and switching originating countries:


SA: JNB-SYD-JNB ZAR 9347 ($1037) SYD-JNB-SYD $1686 ... no, not them ....

BA: LHR-SYD-LHR GBP 846 ($1444) SYD-LHR-SYD $2699 ... no, not them either ....

CX: HKG-SYD-HKG HK$7686 ($1090) SYD-HKG-SYD $1018 ... yep ... just!!

I think what is true to say is that airlines will charge what the market will tolerate. It just seems that we Aussies are far too tolerant for our own good!

Regards,

BD