The totally off-topic thread

[Flying mermaid]

Yes, that makes 5 deaths now with all of them young and with so much life to live. Tragic for everyone involved.

Apparently Victoria has had a "no pursuit" policy in place since 2015, in order to avoid deaths that have been happening in a pursuit. While they actually made a number of attempts to stop this guy, they called off the pursuit because of the policy. If the police know the name of the person, then they don't pursue in most cases. Of course in hindsight that was totally wrong in this case, but how do you know at the time. As you say tragic for everyone.

 

[Pushka]

Apparently Victoria has had a "no pursuit" policy in place since 2015, in order to avoid deaths that have been happening in a pursuit. While they actually made a number of attempts to stop this guy, they called off the pursuit because of the policy. If the police know the name of the person, then they don't pursue in most cases. Of course in hindsight that was totally wrong in this case, but how do you know at the time. As you say tragic for everyone.

There is already an enquiry into both Judicial and Police handling. As a former PO I think there was more evidence to stop this person right there - he had a long criminal record of violence, he had just tried to murder his brother, just abducted then released his girlfriend after a few hours, so clearly he was very capable (and had already done) a lot of serious violent crimes and that day was primed and ready and obviously not in control. Had one of those spin outs (and he what, 6 rotations?) gone just a bit astray he would have plowed into many many people. Perhaps they were 'lucky' it didnt happen right then.

In SA we have a similar policy but its frustrating to read that "just seconds" before the fatal crash (and the death of an innocent person) the police had called the chase off. And these chases were just for stolen cars. This was a completely different scenario. Watching and waiting did not seem an appropriate response.

 

[Deleted member]

There is already an enquiry into both Judicial and Police handling. As a former PO I think there was more evidence to stop this person right there - he had a long criminal record of violence, he had just tried to murder his brother, just abducted then released his girlfriend after a few hours, so clearly he was very capable (and had already done) a lot of serious violent crimes and that day was primed and ready and obviously not in control. Had one of those spin outs (and he what, 6 rotations?) gone just a bit astray he would have plowed into many many people. Perhaps they were 'lucky' it didnt happen right then.

In SA we have a similar policy but its frustrating to read that "just seconds" before the fatal crash (and the death of an innocent person) the police had called the chase off. And these chases were just for stolen cars. This was a completely different scenario. Watching and waiting did not seem an appropriate response.

Where do you draw the line?
The question of chase or do not chase is fraught.
I'm sure there are other "surgical" measures, but then there will be accusations of heavy handedness.
Our police do an amazing job by and large, but are often the brunt of unfair commentary. Who would be a police officer under these conditions?
I have nothing but praise for our police.
It is a shame the outcome of this event was so tragic.

 

[JessicaTam]

I have just got a QF PNR with more numbers than letters. Normally it is the other way around.

 

[Pushka]

Where do you draw the line?
The question of chase or do not chase is fraught.
I'm sure there are other "surgical" measures, but then there will be accusations of heavy handedness.
Our police do an amazing job by and large, but are often the brunt of unfair commentary. Who would be a police officer under these conditions?
I have nothing but praise for our police.
It is a shame the outcome of this event was so tragic.

I look at the evidence and whether there is enough to ask what would be an appropriate strategy to deal with this person.

The timeline - Significant violent criminal history and is on bail and due to appear that day - Police already wanted him to stay behind bars but Court gave bail

That morning - has an argument with his brother and stabs him multiple times. Grabs his girlfriend and takes her on a ride - Police are chasing him and know she is in the car; she finally exits.
Police chase called off and man is then seen doing multiple burn outs in the middle of a very busy CBD. Any one of those burn outs could have gone wrong and resulted in multiple deaths. The Police know his history, and his mental state. They know he is capable of pretty much anything. He is driving erratically.

I just wonder what the Police thought he would end up doing? Driving off peacefully and surrender? That was never going to happen. So then what?

This was not your average Joe Hoon blowing off some hot air but a man with a violent criminal history showing signs of a melt down and using a car as a potentially deadly weapon BEFORE he drove off into Bourke street.

 

[Flying mermaid]

There is already an enquiry into both Judicial and Police handling. As a former PO I think there was more evidence to stop this person right there - he had a long criminal record of violence, he had just tried to murder his brother, just abducted then released his girlfriend after a few hours, so clearly he was very capable (and had already done) a lot of serious violent crimes and that day was primed and ready and obviously not in control. Had one of those spin outs (and he what, 6 rotations?) gone just a bit astray he would have plowed into many many people. Perhaps they were 'lucky' it didnt happen right then.

In SA we have a similar policy but its frustrating to read that "just seconds" before the fatal crash (and the death of an innocent person) the police had called the chase off. And these chases were just for stolen cars. This was a completely different scenario. Watching and waiting did not seem an appropriate response.

I am willing to bet the police who were involved in the pursuit didn't want to call off the chase, but were given orders from "higher up" who were trying to conform to the policy. I wouldn't have wanted to be the person making the call. I have read (don't know if it is true, as reporters are reporting anything they can find), that the police asked permission more than once to ram the car to stop it, but were refused.

As far as I am concerned the blame (if blame there is), lies with the magistrate who let him out on bail given his increasingly violent behaviour.

 

[kpc]

Is it just me or do others find it quite distasteful the media are interviewing the poor mother of the driver who drove his car into the Bourke Street mall? (and her younger son is still fighting for his life in hospital after being stabbed by her other son)

 

[Pushka]

As far as I am concerned the blame (if blame there is), lies with the magistrate who let him out on bail given his increasingly violent behaviour.

Yes. And the judicial system in general. We seem to be caught in the see-saw of police action that seems too heavy handed - that then grabs media attention, so everyone backs off to the extent that civilian safety is put at risk. Put this with a judicial system that makes unfathomable decisions.

 

[Bundy Bear]

Which question? That I'm not a good father or that I post more than others?

It's very difficult to describe my job. I fix bugs in computer software. I don't find/fix all of the bugs but I get most of them. Probably 80%-90% or higher. You are not going to get much better in the industry. I am about as good as you will find. Some bugs have been through 4-5 people and the team lead gives to me as a last resort and she is surprised that I can solve even months after the bug first presented.

Why?

Because I am good at what I do. I am passionate about my job but you need to understand that you can't work all the time. I look at patterns in data to try and work out what happened to a particular line of code. You can sit at your desk but you won't be working on solving the problem every minute. Distractions are good. Think of golf. Think of next trip. Post on AFF. And then presto the answer comes to mind and you then try and simulate the scenario. Sometimes the answer comes during dinner at home. Sometimes when you wake up in the morning.

The end result is all that matters.

But by all means don't pay my wages. Hire the person who looks like they are busy all day but in actual fact they call on 5-6 people each day for help and solve maybe 1 in 3-4 issues they receive and even then every 2nd or 3rd fix needs rework as it has stuffed something else.

The most common comment I come across on bug jobs is "closing job as unable to reproduce" but I'm not the one posting the comment.

Thanks on the post John, one of best I have seen for you, I guess there must be some satisfaction of coming up to Brisbane every Sunday night to go to work and fix errors of code that others can't see.

Is it just me or do others find it quite distasteful the media are interviewing the poor mother of the driver who drove his car into the Bourke Street mall? (and her younger son is still fighting for his life in hospital after being stabbed by her other son)

You are correct on that one, stupid media, but also some people come across on TV better than others, the interview should not have gone to air, quoted yes but that interview was not a good idea.

 

[TheRealTMA]

... to go to work and fix errors of code that others can't see.

One would have to be worried if an IT contractor kept fixing bugs others can't see! Bugs others can't reproduce or find the error in the code would be better.

 

[get me outta here]

I agree and that is my first reaction to seeing that. However, sometimes it reminds me that the parent of an awful human being can appear quite normal and maybe seem somewhat absolved of responsibility or blame for raising such a terrible person depending on how they come across. It's a judgement, but ... on the other hand if I happened to be the parent, I'd probably not want my face forever associated with such a terrible tragedy.

Is it just me or do others find it quite distasteful the media are interviewing the poor mother of the driver who drove his car into the Bourke Street mall? (and her younger son is still fighting for his life in hospital after being stabbed by her other son)

 

[Deleted member]

Yes. And the judicial system in general. We seem to be caught in the see-saw of police action that seems too heavy handed - that then grabs media attention, so everyone backs off to the extent that civilian safety is put at risk. Put this with a judicial system that makes unfathomable decisions.

Is not the judge required to follow due process also? Or is there some discretion?

 

[wandering_fred]

Is not the judge required to follow due process also? Or is there some discretion?

There are some groups of people, who regularly offend (socially and criminally). However there appears to be no court action that will cause a change in the offensive behavior. (A second hand quote from someone visiting a court - "No problem - I'll be out in a week") And if personal (albeit limited) action is taken, personal property mysteriously becomes damaged overnight. And while the "constabulary" have a reasonable guess as to the offenders, there is no proof that will stand up in court. So the average citizen sits back and ignores the problem to "save the hassle".

Any suggestions on solutions?

(Un)happy wandering

Fred

 

[Flying mermaid]

Is not the judge required to follow due process also? Or is there some discretion?

I don't know if it is discretion as much as a judgement call. When it comes to bail the magistrate has to listen to arguements in favour and against bail and make a decision. On the whole these days I think they try and keep people out of jail if possible.

when it comes to a trial, they have to follow the law, but there is a lot of interpretation of the law, which is why case law and precedents are so important. It is also why there are different levels of courts. A judge might come to a decision, which is then set aside by a higher court on appeal. Not really paint by numbers.

Apparently Victoria uses "out of hours volunteer bail justices". Not sure what that means but perhaps less experienced?

update. - found this

Bail Justice position description - Department of Justice and Regulation, Victoria

 

[Pushka]

Is not the judge required to follow due process also? Or is there some discretion?

There is discretion and 'judgement'.

 

[serfty]

I have just got a QF PNR with more numbers than letters. Normally it is the other way around.

I was mystified for a little bit last year when I had an Amadeus PNR for a BA booking that was 6 numeric digits.

Plugged it into checkmytrip and all was fine.

 

[JohnK]

Ok JohnK post number 59216 was the question and the observation I made (as someone who employs people) so if you're offended by that, I apologise unreservedly. But it's still a fair question.

Fair question but if you know me and see what I do at work you wouldn't be questioning my dedication. I have been there nearly 9 years. They know they have found a bargain in me. They wouldn't be able to replace me with 2 people but so be it.

And yes I do waffle on a lot on AFF. That's why I have a high post count. Some good posts some not so good posts but I try to help out and hope I make a difference.

 

[mrs.dr.ron]

8.6 Earthquake of PNG Tsunami warnings ...


Tsunami warning after magnitude 8.4 earthquake rocks Papua New Guinea

A tsunami warning has been issued after a magnitude 8.4 earthquake struck Papua New Guinea on Sunday afternoon.
The Pacific Tsunami Warning Centre issued an alert saying "widespread hazardous tsunami waves are possible" for some coastal areas of Papua New Guinea, the Solomon Islands, Nauru and Vanuatu.
The earthquake, with a depth of 168 kilometres, hit the island of Bougainville at 3.30pm Sydney time. It struck 47 kilometres west of Arawa on Bougainville island, Papua New Guinea

 

[Simo]

Hope all are safe and well...

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Put this with a judicial system that makes unfathomable decisions.

In most cases the 'unfathomable' part is because people aren't knowledgeable or trained in that area.