This is dinner on QF CNS - SYD

[Scott K]

There's a number of threads here on QF, and other airlines' meals.

The world needs fewer hashtags, I reckon. YMMV.

Don’t mistake my dry delivery about the hashtag as not being laced with humour.

 

[Scott K]

Far from it, more bun than filling and regarding being chicken i didn't find any. The bun just contained an orange paste the size of a marble

Then I take that back. Although my first thought was ‘I bet that’s microwaved to flavourlessness too’.

 

[boomy]

I’ve tried those buns once lunch service, they were bad.
Generally I’ve noticed cold options (sandwich for lunch and salad for dinner) are consistently more tasty than hot offers. Maybe they cost less to make or maybe it’s like with wine, if you must have a cheap one go for the white.

 

[Limewood]

Served a bun late last month bloody awful cough one bite was enough, and served up in that box, come on you can do better than that.

 

[RooFlyer]

Don’t mistake my dry delivery about the hashtag as not being laced with humour.

Ah, now understood

 

[Scott K]

Ah, now understood

God knows we have enough food threads and hashtags. Their abundance is on par with opinions.

 

[JohnK]

So what do these real, cold hard numbers show?

Firstly, average ticket prices have NOT gone up.

Secondly, Qantas has managed to increase the margin, NOT by increasing revenue (the fares), but rather by cost-savings.

And yes, it is obvious these cost savings could mean they are scrimping and reducing services and meals etc etc.

Anyway……

Where do you get these figures? All cheap fare buckets have gone up considerably in the past 4 years. Up until last year I was consistently getting sub $100 airfares SYD-BNE.

Have flexible airfares become cheaper?

 

[juddles]

Where do you get these figures? All cheap fare buckets have gone up considerably in the past 4 years. Up until last year I was consistently getting sub $100 airfares SYD-BNE.

Have flexible airfares become cheaper?

The figures I use are the ones Qantas publishes in their annual reports - here I have attempted to put link to the 2018 one....

http://investor.qantas.com/FormBuil...ile/annual-reports/2018-Annual-Report-ASX.pdf

 

[Flying_man]

I cant believe then that as a community and as consumers that you have put up with this all this time. The first law of Economics after all is "the consumer is sovereign" .

Actually first law of economics is “caveat emptor”: let the buyer beware.

 

[dajop]

Now the actual revenue from Domestic tickets is available, and it has been effectively static for the past 4 years! (2015=5.8B, 2016=5.7B, 2017=5.6B, 2018=5.9B) But their margin for Domestic has improved each year (2015=8.2%, 2016=10.1%, 2017=11.5%, 2018=12.9%)

So what do these real, cold hard numbers show?

Firstly, average ticket prices have NOT gone up.

It is difficult to draw this conclusion (average ticket prices have not gone up) just from the limited data. One thing that has changed from 2010-14 period is capacity discipline in the domestic market, which if executed well should lead to higher ticket prices and greater profitability (remember back then the VA/QF capacity war and the QF "line in the sand"). If you look at the domestic statistics comparing 2018 to 2017 (would have to go back to other reports looking at 2015-17 for comparisons of those years) .... revenue up 6.1%, yet ASKs down 2.4%. This would suggest that ticket prices have indeed risen.

edit: For comparison (domestic):
2017 vs 2016 Revenue down 1.3%, ASKs down 2.8%
2016 vs 2015: Revenue down 2%, ASKs down 1%
2015 vs 2014: Revenue down 0.3% revenue per ASK up 4.5%

 

[juddles]

It is difficult to draw this conclusion (average ticket prices have not gone up) just from the limited data. ....ASKs down 2.4%. This would suggest that ticket prices have indeed risen....

Dajop, I could certainly be wrong, but I prefer not to use ASK's. That is a metric that is based on availability, not on actual fares purchased. . I can see no fault in my simpler interpretation that QF domestic is selling more actual fares, but their revenue has not increased. This must mean average fare costs are the same or lower? Where might I be wrong there?

 

[dajop]

Dajop, I could certainly be wrong, but I prefer not to use ASK's. That is a metric that is based on availability, not on actual fares purchased.

I see your point, but it is a measure of capacity in the market. Probably a better measure to determine if prices have increased is RPKs for the kilometres actually flown by paying passengers. This is not explicitly declared for QF domestic, but easily calculated by multiplying the ASKs by the seat factor.

This gives us the following (for domestic):
June 2018: 26,751 m RPKs
June 2017: 26,916 m RPKs

So RPKs are almost the same (actually down 0.6%) but revenue up by 6.1% would be indicative of an increase in what people are paying for each kilometre flown. aka fare increase.

 

[Pushka]

How about the meal? If passengers are advised they are going to get dinner then none of this is of any importance to them. They’ve paid their $ and would expect to be fed appropriately and as marketed. Customers cannot influence any of the profit factors so it’s of no help to them.

 

[juddles]

I see your point, but it is a measure of capacity in the market. Probably a better measure to determine if prices have increased is RPKs for the kilometres actually flown by paying passengers. This is not explicitly declared for QF domestic, but easily calculated by multiplying the ASKs by the seat factor.

This gives us the following (for domestic):
June 2018: 26,751 m RPKs
June 2017: 26,916 m RPKs

So RPKs are almost the same (actually down 0.6%) but revenue up by 6.1% would be indicative of an increase in what people are paying for each kilometre flown. aka fare increase.

Interesting way, and also very informative. Can you do the same comparison 2015 thru to 2018?

 

[Popeye]

Actually first law of economics is “caveat emptor”: let the buyer beware.

Actually first law of economics is “caveat emptor”: let the buyer beware.

I have to tell my year 11 economics. teacher he and his textbook written by John Maynard Kaynes was wrong

 

[Ewing]

Here's an example: Health & Vitality Green Chicken Curry 320g - ALDI Australia $2.69 is the retail price. Wholesale will be cheaper. (Excluding the cost of the logisitcs which are already there, regardless of the product being offered on board.)

They're actually nicer than many J meals I've had on QF lately.

 

[Flying_man]

I have to tell my year 11 economics. teacher he and his textbook written by John Maynard Kaynes was wrong

Yes, you can tell him. Keynes is not most respected economist.

 

[juddles]

Yes, you can tell him. Keynes is not most respected economist.

Who is?

 

[Flying_man]

Who is?

Impossible to say. Matter of personal opinion.

 

[kamchatsky]

Served a bun late last month bloody awful cough one bite was enough, and served up in that box, come on you can do better than that.

I have to try that one day just to see how bad it tastes. I eat a lot of Asian buns in my life so based on people's feedback it must be really bad.