This is dinner on QF CNS - SYD

[juddles]

Dear Juddles,

I retire , you right I quit. QF's need to make a profit far exceeds my expectation to get what they advertised that they would deliver as part of their product

Unlike many , after the flights i already have booked. I will be looking at alternatives. I have LTG with QF and as I always fly J international it means nothing. Domestically after this experience , more than willing to try something else

I have my own issues with Qantas, but still not enough to try Virgin after what I have read about them.

 

[Popeye]

I have my own issues with Qantas, but still not enough to try Virgin after what I have read about them.

I am done Juddles, thanks for totally highjacking and distracting what this post was meant to be about.

 

[JohnK]

I don’t know how much QF makes per domestic ticket but I do know that airlines in Australia (particularly QF) charge exorbitant rates for domestic travel. To say that anyone who flys QF Dom expects to pay less and get more is ludicrous.

I am not sure why this one is thrown out there. We don't expect more and more. Qantas increases domestic airfares 5-6 times/year not just for CPI increases and continuously delivers less and less including meals on board and meals in lounges.

I get it that Qantas has been trying to get out trouble for a number of years and I continued to support them. I get it that they have put a salary freeze on many employees and have been trying to negotiate new contracts with lower salaries. What I don't get is how executive salaries and generous packages continue to be enhanced upwards. That makes no sense.

 

[RooFlyer]

<snip>. Are you saying that you know better than their team how to improve the profitability of the company?<snip>.

Not uncommon for company executives to 'know' how to properly run a company, but then do it otherwise in pursuit of short term profits and bonuses. I see AJ took home less this year, but his remuneration package won't be year to year. The 'deal' with employees was disgraceful.

As much as I don't like disagreeing with you, fact is juddles, for all of your passionate defence of Qantas, they served a cheap, cough meal totally inconsistent with their advertising. It is only Qantas that leads to the passenger expectations. We don't have the same expectations flying Tiger, do we? For years, we've seen that Qantas won't or can't deliver priority baggage and boarding, yet they still advertise such, year in, year out. Nothing to do with profit per pax etc. Simply giving a misleading idea of what is being sold to passengers. Pretty cynical in my view; it could be put more strongly.

 

[drron]

"Drivel" - I actually love that word being used. It is indicative of the certain and closed opinions of the user. IE it says more about the user than the target......

Now now juddles.Mrsdrron often says I talk a lot of drivel and she is quite right.The rest of the time i am just talking rubbish.

 

[serfty]

That does not help. Full economy on a bus is about

The current rate for 'Flex' in M class is $356+++, Y class is $716+++

 

[Pushka]

Yes. But the shareholders can only make money if people fly. The airline has, over the years, asked its passengers for sympathy in the face of plunging profits and rising fuel. Devalued award program, cost cutting in the food department, huge fuel surcharges.

Passengers accepted all of that, partly because of the handcuffs of status, but also loyalty to the Aussie airline. Now with the turnaround in fortunes, none of the changes have been reversed. Yet the shareholders still expect people to give their loyalty?

It could be argued a small investment in passengers could recover an even greater return for shareholders.

Agree. Almost like Qantas is being geared up down for a sale.

If the cost of providing a reasonable ‘as advertised’ dinner is too much for Qantas profit to bear, then don’t advertise it as such. Simples.

In reality the OP was served a rubbish ‘promoted’ dinner. Argue profits, business models yada yada all you like but this is the only fact.

 

[Ansett]

I also agree that after all the requests for continued support when Qantas was hurting and the devaluation of the FF program the shut down of the airline etc then it is about time Qantas did look after its loyal customer base. The cost of meals is already minimal in terms of the cost of airfares these days.

I looked at flights MEL-SYD next week with RED E Deal from $185 to $380.00 one way depending on time of day Tell me they cant afford to give better catering.

 

[Pushka]

I also agree that after all the requests for continued support when Qantas was hurting and the devaluation of the FF program the shut down of the airline etc then it is about time Qantas did look after its loyal customer base. The cost of meals is already minimal in terms of the cost of airfares these days.

I looked at flights MEL-SYD next week with RED E Deal from $185 to $380.00 one way depending on time of day Tell me they cant afford to give better catering.

And that is cheap. Last week a flight around 6pm cost us over $600! No red deals available. Meal not touched.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

"It could be argued that a small investment in passengers could recover an even greater return for shareholders" ?? Sorry, but where do you sit on this fence?? QF is doing a fantastic job for their shareholders at the moment - dragging the airline out of losses, giving shareholder returns, etc. Are you saying that you know better than their team how to improve the profitability of the company? They appear to me to be doing very well in a very hard market. QF domestic has had essentially static revenue for the past four years. But they have brought their profitability forward (yes, cost cutting and efficiency). Whatever they are doing, is succeeding as a company.

Maybe it depends on why you think it is a 'hard market'? Globally airlines made in excess of USD33 billion last year. US based carriers - $13 or so billion in profit. IAG group - profit. Lufthansa group - profit. Air France-KLM were in the red. All airlines are investing in new product, new lounges, new facilities.

QF kept gas-guzzling 747s for a long time when others abandoned them for 777s and more modern 787s and 350s. But BA has also kept them, and IAG is in profit. US airlines deal with massive weather disruptions on a frequent basis. Euro airlines are subject to EU261. US airlines invested in full flat seats across their fleet, on Qantas it’s been almost 6 years since the announcements of full flats on a330s but the chances of getting an angled flat to PEK/SIN/BKK are pretty high.

US carriers charge zero for award tickets, QF charges up to $1000 or more. But US carriers are making healthy profits.

All airlines are subject to competition. So i’m not sure there’s medal to be awarded here for being in profit, or for being in a ‘hard market’?

 

[Jack_OC]

I looked at flights MEL-SYD next week with RED E Deal from $185 to $380.00 one way depending on time of day Tell me they cant afford to give better catering.

Right now VA fares from MEL-SYD next Monday morning start at $335 if you want to depart before 8:30am. You can fly for $315 with QF during the same window. From 8:30-10:00 on the same day, the cheapest VA flight is $270, while there are numerous options with QF during the same window for $244. As someone who regularly travels this route for work, and often books fairly close to the time of travel, this is not at all an unusual situation - i.e. it is often possible to fly with QF for less than VA. And as I'm sure everyone will agree, QF's catering might be suboptimal, but it is far, far better than VA's.

Also, as I mentioned above, IME, flights of similar duration with "full service" airlines in other developed countries tend to cost as much if not more than this, and generally come with worse catering than QF provides.

Tell me why you think QF can afford to provide better catering than everyone else?

 

[SOPOOR]

with sounding too cynical,

is there anything in todays corporate world that actually improves without prices rising or legilsation or law changes?

I cant imagine any airline suddenly say "hey, we just made an extra $1b in profit, maybe we could increase the food quality or increase staff on flights"

 

[RooFlyer]

I cant imagine any airline suddenly say "hey, we just made an extra $1b in profit, maybe we could increase the food quality or increase staff on flights"

They'd only do that if they were thinking long term, although I do acknowledge that they have to look after shareholders first. But doing both isn't impossible.

 

[SOPOOR]

They'd only do that if they were thinking long term, although I do acknowledge that they have to look after shareholders first. But doing both isn't impossible.

yeah totally agree, but Icant think of anything the airlines have done that increased overall quality

eg surcharges, hidden fees, luggage capacity, meal fequency, meal inclusions,
all seem to get affected negatveily

 

[dajop]

All this talk about whether QF can afford it, what happens in the other parts of the world are moot ( the competitive landscape in most parts of the world is quite different to the AU duopoly situation).

It is a simple equation, QF advertises “dinner” or meals on their services as they believe the contribution that providing said meals makes to the brand premium is greater than the cost. It’s all about brand premium. If the cost starts outweighing this premium then they will stop (or start selling said meals instead).

It’s also about what they can get away with. If enough passengers think three “fancy sounding” dim sums are acceptable as a meal they will continue. If it starts damaging their brand premium (unlikely) then they might offer something more. Maybe OP needs to start #3dimsumisnotdinner. I don’t think it will get much traction though.

Checked this route on 7 different random days and QF were consistently priced higher than VA, the premium varying from $12 to $50 for similarly timed flights. Far into the future QF premium was more likely to be closer to the $50 end than the $12 end. Closer to now, the premium over VA seemed to be less.

 

[Happy Trails]

It would cost them nothing to tone down the florid descriptions to something approaching the reality.

 

[Jack_OC]

All this talk about whether QF can afford it, what happens in the other parts of the world are moot ( the competitive landscape in most parts of the world is quite different to the AU duopoly situation).

I agree that the "QF can afford it" line of argument is nonsensical. As it happens though, the increased competition in other parts of the world should drive fares elsewhere down, and make Aussie fares seem more expensive by comparison. In reality though, I think Aussie "full service" fares are pretty competitive compared to the US/Europe.

Checked this route on 7 different random days and QF were consistently priced higher than VA, the premium varying from $12 to $50 for similarly timed flights. Far into the future QF premium was more likely to be closer to the $50 end than the $12 end. Closer to now, the premium over VA seemed to be less.

Again taking next Monday as an example, it is true that the cheapest VA fares from CNS-SYD are lower than the cheapest QF fares - but only if you are willing to leave at either 6am or 6pm. The only other flight that VA has departs at 12:40, and fares on that flight start at $345. QF have flights at 11:30 ($266), 13:35 ($333), and 16:55 ($232). So again, a lot of people would find that they could fly for significantly less with QF than VA on this route - as always, depending on when they need to travel and how far in advance they can book (I agree that the "QF premium" tends to grow if you are booking further out).

As an aside, $232 for a ~2,000km/3 hour flight, when booking at short notice, is pretty cheap IMHO.

In any case, clearly fares vary a lot, but this has pretty much no bearing on what catering is provided - there will often be people on the same flight receiving the same catering (or lack of), despite some having paid 2-3 times more for their fare than others. As we all know, the fare differentials are primarily due to some combination of different fare rules and different levels of availability at the time of booking. In that context, it doesn't make a lot of sense to set expectations around catering based on how much you pay for a fare, as that's not how it works.

I fully agree that advertising "dinner" but then providing what the OP received is completely unacceptable, but IMHO the problem was the false advertising, rather than the food provided per se.

 

[Pushka]

with sounding too cynical,

is there anything in todays corporate world that actually improves without prices rising or legilsation or law changes?

I cant imagine any airline suddenly say "hey, we just made an extra $1b in profit, maybe we could increase the food quality or increase staff on flights"

Prices are rising though; wages are not. Work that one out!

 

[Catweazle]

I had a steak pie once on a short BNE-SYD dinner-time flight last year, with a miniature bottle of shiraz, mushy peas and oven-baked cheesy potatoes, all down the back in Y. Pretty cheaply done, but it tasted good and was satisfactory for that 60 minute flight. But this kind of thing looks utterly dismal.

Remember when they did those breakfast boxes with juice, coffee, an apple, Carmen's muesli and those little danishes or apricot-filled bread rolls that were still warm from the microwave? Nowadays you'd be lucky to get an apple. And the egg panini thing I had earlier this year tasted dreadful.

On the other hand, some of the in-flight purchases available on the JQ or TT menu are actually pretty decent by airline standards. If they can sell that on cheap tickets, surely QF can provide decent complimentary food with their airfares.

I mean, a decent sized meal does wonders for boosting customer morale! Just saying...

Now if I owned an airline I'd take pride in plating up decent meals. That'd be my speciality

 

[Pushka]

False advertising methinks, as others have said. Given the multi-million dollar profits and the premium price of QF airfares, the least they could do is bring back the goodness at mealtimes. I had a steak pie once on a short BNE-SYD dinner-time flight last year, with a miniature bottle of shiraz, mushy peas and oven-baked cheesy potatoes, all down the back in Y. Pretty cheaply done, but it tasted good and was satisfactory for that 60 minute flight. But this kind of thing looks rather dismal.

Remember when they did those breakfast boxes with juice, coffee, an apple, Carmen's muesli and those little danishes or apricot-filled bread rolls that were still warm from the microwave? Nowadays you'd be lucky to get an apple. And the egg panini thing I had earlier this year tasted dreadful.

On the other hand, some of the in-flight purchases available on the JQ or TT menu are actually pretty decent by airline standards. If they can sell that on cheap tickets, surely QF can provide complimentary food with their airfares.

I mean, a decent sized meal does wonders for boosting customer morale!

And stops cranky passengers!