This is dinner on QF CNS - SYD

[mannej]

yeah totally agree, but Icant think of anything the airlines have done that increased overall quality

eg surcharges, hidden fees, luggage capacity, meal fequency, meal inclusions,
all seem to get affected negatveily

Correct me if I am wrong, but I can remember when luggage allowance in Y was 20kgs for non-American itineraries. Hasn't this increased to 30kgs internationally?

 

[RooFlyer]

Uh, oh. Thread diversification from domestic meal quality to international luggage allowance

 

[Pleb Status]

Right now VA fares from MEL-SYD next Monday morning start at $335 if you want to depart before 8:30am. You can fly for $315 with QF during the same window. From 8:30-10:00 on the same day, the cheapest VA flight is $270, while there are numerous options with QF during the same window for $244. As someone who regularly travels this route for work, and often books fairly close to the time of travel, this is not at all an unusual situation - i.e. it is often possible to fly with QF for less than VA. And as I'm sure everyone will agree, QF's catering might be suboptimal, but it is far, far better than VA's.

When comparing the average pricing of the various airlines, cherry picking prices within a week or so from departure is simply not valid.

I have seen numerous occasions where the base JQ fare is the most expensive option between two cities at a certain times/days of the week. However, I am certainly not going to use these occasions to form a case to state that JQ is normally more expensive than QF/VA.

I am sure someone could find an occasion sometime in the next week or so where TT is the most expensive option....

 

[mannej]

Uh, oh. Thread diversification from domestic meal quality to international luggage allowance

Which relates back as comments are being made about all aspects of travel quality are being reduced.

 

[boomy]

It would cost them nothing to tone down the florid descriptions to something approaching the reality.

Yes but why should QF bother changing if they can keep with misleading advertising and ppl still defend them!

 

[Jack_OC]

When comparing the average pricing of the various airlines, cherry picking prices within a week or so from departure is simply not valid.

I have seen numerous occasions where the base JQ fare is the most expensive option between two cities at a certain times/days of the week. However, I am certainly not going to use these occasions to form a case to state that JQ is normally more expensive than QF/VA.

I am sure someone could find an occasion sometime in the next week or so where TT is the most expensive option....

I said absolutely nothing about "average pricing", nor did I say or even imply that VA is "normally more expensive". I was responding to the following comment from Ansett:

I looked at flights MEL-SYD next week with RED E Deal from $185 to $380.00 one way depending on time of day Tell me they cant afford to give better catering.

When responding to someone who has commented on specific fares on a specific route "next week", I would say it is indeed perfectly valid to provide examples of specific fares on that same specific route next week. Do you not agree?

Also, as I said above, "As someone who regularly travels this route for work, and often books fairly close to the time of travel, this is not at all an unusual situation - i.e. it is often possible to fly with QF for less than VA".

My own travel patterns are testament to this - I can only book with QF when travelling for work if it is the same price or cheaper than VA, but in the past two years, more than 50% of my domestic work related travel has been with QF (and we're talking mostly MEL to ADL, SYD and BNE, so there are always VA options - just not necessarily cheap ones).

In my follow-up post, I provided another example where a similar pattern exists (CNS-SYD next week, in response to someone who reported that QF is "consistently more expensive" on this route).

I also made in clear in both posts that this phenomenon is mostly seen when booking at short notice - e.g. I said "as always, depending on when they need to travel and how far in advance they can book (I agree that the "QF premium" tends to grow if you are booking further out)".

I really don't see how you can describe any of this as "cherry picking"!!

 

[dajop]

It would cost them nothing to tone down the florid descriptions to something approaching the reality.

It might actually cost them (lost revenue) if they toned down the florid descriptions .... it’s all part of the smokes and mirrors that Qantas are so good at!

 

[Happy Trails]

It might actually cost them (lost revenue) if they toned down the florid descriptions .... it’s all part of the smokes and mirrors that Qantas are so good at!

Oh I dunno, they could make a virtue of it, like in that movie Crazy People. ("Volvos, Yes they are boxy, but they're safe")

 

[JohnK]

Prices are rising though; wages are not. Work that one out!

The bulk of the increase would be fuel costs and shareholder dividends? And I'd love to know what's going on with executive salary packages. They keep giving themselves a pat on the back while the wages and salaries of those actually doing the work remains stable.

 

[RooFlyer]

Pushka said: ↑
Prices are rising though; wages are not. Work that one out!

The bulk of the increase would be fuel costs and shareholder dividends? And I'd love to know what's going on with executive salary packages. They keep giving themselves a pat on the back while the wages and salaries of those actually doing the work remains stable.

Fuel is abt 75% hedged; shareholder dividends come out of profits - not a cost to the business (ie not a 'price' they pay).

Executive pay is detailed (by Law) in the Annual Report.

 

[Popeye]

Fuel is abt 75% hedged; shareholder dividends come out of profits - not a cost to the business (ie not a 'price' they pay).

Executive pay is detailed (by Law) in the Annual Report.

The way I see it Alan Joyce owes me a beer or 3

 

[TomVexille]

...

I mean, a decent sized meal does wonders for boosting customer morale! Just saying...

Basically the EK strategy for their Y offering. Add in entertainment in enough languages to cover the globe and you have people who don't complain much

 

[SOPOOR]

Basically the EK strategy for their Y offering. Add in entertainment in enough languages to cover the globe and you have people who don't complain much

and thats pretty damn smart, a decent investment for a long term gain!

 

[Gordon Lee]

Your dinner is pretty much the same as my prelanding snack for my 9 hours international QF flight to Tokyo.

 

[boomy]

Your dinner is pretty much the same as my prelanding snack for my 9 hours international QF flight to Tokyo.

No more noodle boxes?
They were miniature but quite good.

 

[juddles]

Hi there all, a few things:


First up, my "passionate defence" of Qantas is not really that - it is me simply harping on about my personal belief that pax expect too much. This expectation is in general terms - ie what a flight should cost and what services should be provided - it is not specifically defending Qantas for not providing a dinner when they advertised they would. It is clear from the OP's experience and the links that have subsequently been provided that Qantas makes claims that it will provide a "substantial" dinner on many flights - and now seeing that advertising (I actually never look at such stuff) I agree with the OP that a couple of titbits is clearly not delivering. Same as priority luggage, etc etc. I agree that false advertising is wrong.


A second personal crusade or dislike I have is that airlines seem to be perceived differently from most other businesses. They are big, costly things, and a "billion dollar profit" to a huge company is not actually that much. They have equally big costs and debts (QF still owe about $4 billion?) A change in fortune can make them lose money very fast. And those changes are almost always things out of their control (terrorism, fuel prices, etc etc) I do not begrudge an airline from making a profit - on the contrary I am very fearful of those that do not.


The OP's post was of a very specific thing - his outrage at the pitiful meal he got. (I hope in this post I have cleared up the doubt that I agree with that) But the thread has moved into a wide debate on airline profit and other things. I never intended to "hijack" the thread, but I see my arguments may have led it wider than the original topic. As I have said before, this could all get split off to a new thread, but those involved in this micro-debate are already here - so whatever the mods think, all good!


Now, to continue adding some fuel to the fire (just stating things I know or have read - they can be argued for or against), I include some more things:


MEL-traveller questioned why I thought the airline industry is a “hard market”, stating that globally airlines just made 33 billion dollars in the last year. Well, getting back to the profit-per-pax (or ticket) thing, those airlines flew 5 billion people to make that profit – so they managed just over $6 profit per ticket sold. That is a very slim margin!!!! And these are probably the most profitable times in aviation history!

As for those claiming ticket prices are rising, I think I disagree. I know in each individual experience you can get needs for travel that are expensive, so to try to get some actual real perspective, I have looked at the (little) real info that is available. I wish to draw attention to Qantas Domestic, which is what we are all talking about here.

Unfortunately the info I have on Qantas does not break every single thing down between their different business units. But as a Group (ie including domestic, international, and Jetstar), over the past four years they have increased about 10% in pax carried. 2015 = 49.2M, 2016 = 52.7M, 2017 = 53.7M, and 2018 = 55.3M. As I say, I do not have the breakdown specifically for Domestic, but I would be confident that the trend there is similar overall (ie 10% increase over those 4 years)

Now the actual revenue from Domestic tickets is available, and it has been effectively static for the past 4 years! (2015=5.8B, 2016=5.7B, 2017=5.6B, 2018=5.9B) But their margin for Domestic has improved each year (2015=8.2%, 2016=10.1%, 2017=11.5%, 2018=12.9%)

So what do these real, cold hard numbers show?

Firstly, average ticket prices have NOT gone up.

Secondly, Qantas has managed to increase the margin, NOT by increasing revenue (the fares), but rather by cost-savings.

And yes, it is obvious these cost savings could mean they are scrimping and reducing services and meals etc etc.

Anyway……

 

[serfty]

Sadly, marketing still tries to sell travel on Qantas as an aspirational dream. I believe this is based on air travel from the last century.

Relative prices have dropped since then (I posted somewhere recently in how many slabs of beer you would need to forgo to travel between MEL and SYD in the mid 80's compared to today).

It was the pre compass days, fares domestically were regulated and profit was gauranteed.

Not so these days, especially internationally to Asia.

So qantas have cut costs - this thread illustrates they seem to have gone too far.

On a personal note, I dislike that style of bun and would have declined. (They are among the very few things I wont eat.) I would have had to make do with the Lindt chocolate that seems to represent desert on most QF domestic evening meal flights these days.

 

[Scott K]

Just a thought. We seem to have gone on a lengthy discussion on about the downfall of an airline based on meals offered on a single flight. I feel we need an Instagram hash tag so that we can see a broader look at QF meals across flights. I say Instagram as it tends to be the meal posting app of choice.
Perhaps #qantasmealshaming
Anyway, steamed Chicken Laksa buns sound pretty yummy to me.

 

[RooFlyer]

There's a number of threads here on QF, and other airlines' meals.

The world needs fewer hashtags, I reckon. YMMV.

 

[Popeye]

Anyway, steamed Chicken Laksa buns sound pretty yummy to me.

Far from it, more bun than filling and regarding being chicken i didn't find any. The bun just contained an orange paste the size of a marble