United fly most frequently USA <--> Australia

[Mwenenzi]

off topic

January 2024 BITRE report now out.

https://www.bitre.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/International_airline_activity_0124.pdf

UA had an Inbound load of 70% and an outbound load of 59% across all services.

Rivals:
DL: Inbound: 72.9%, Outbound: 63% (Across the 2 per day (double daily) SYD services)
AA: Inbound: 88%, Outbound 73% (Single daily SYD-LAX).
QF: Inbound 83%, Outbound 74% (Across all services primarily from the East Coast).
Numbers are for non-stop flights only.

Where does QF's SYD-AKL-JFK flight, on single flight number, get counted?
AU to USA (as many will be ticketed) or AU to NZ, given some only travelling SYD-AKL?. Or in NZ govt stats?
Air NZ has a good market for some pax AU-AKL-USA, but 2 flight numbers.

 

[levelnine]

I'm interested in the potential of booking a United flight using Velocity points from EWR to HNL direct in Polaris. I can see 'United First (JN)' availability on the United website but only Economy on the Virgin website on the same date. Is it possible that the United (I) will be released at some stage and at that time it will appear on the Virgin website and can be booked with Velocity points?

Alternatively, we could look at departing the mainland USA from SFO if there's better availability there.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

To be honest, you're unlikely to get saver award space on either route. J on domestic routes to Hawaii are super competitive so airlines rarely have to release saver award space — people are willing to pay higher dynamic prices.

Having a quick look, there's not a single saver seat on either route in either direction for the next 365 days.

 

[Mwenenzi]

There appears to be a lot of over stayers or there are a huge amount of RTW flyers! ie those stats are just wrong?

Agree. Its not like from India or China with big numbers of students arriving January. So effectively one way.
For visitors from USA and visitors to USA would expect will even out month to month. May be corrected in Feb when folks go home. And the same stat for Dec may show something

 

[SeaWolf]

According to the Jan stats from BITRE, United do fly most frequently between Australia and the USA.

Carrier	Inbound Flights	Outbound Flights
Qantas Airways	215​	208​
United Airlines	225​	225​

These numbers do not include NZ.
United had more flights than Qantas in Dec 2023 as well.

 

[SYD]

According to the Jan stats from BITRE, United do fly most frequently between Australia and the USA.

Carrier	Inbound Flights	Outbound Flights
Qantas Airways	215​	208​
United Airlines	225​	225​

These numbers do not include NZ.

So they’ve ignored QF3/4?

 

[SeaWolf]

So they’ve ignored QF3/4?

That specific flight I'm not totally sure on, but United's flights to NZ are definitely not counted.
I would think it counts as a flight to NZ, rather than the USA, since it doesn't operate to the USA from Australia.

That flight does get counted as a flight to the USA. If you look at British Airways in the tables those flights count as flights to the UK, even though they stop in Singapore.
United's flights to New Zealand are definitely not counted though, as they don't continue on to Australia.

 

[Mwenenzi]

That specific flight I'm not totally sure on, but United's flights to NZ are definitely not counted.
I would think it counts as a flight to NZ, rather than the USA, since it doesn't operate to the USA from Australia.

That flight does get counted as a flight to the USA. If you look at British Airways in the tables those flights count as flights to the UK, even though they stop in Singapore.
United's flights to New Zealand are definitely not counted though, as they don't continue on to Australia.

That flight does get counted as a flight to the USA. If you look at British Airways in the tables those flights count as flights to the UK, even though they transit stop in Singapore

 

[pauly7]

January 2024 BITRE report now out.

https://www.bitre.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/International_airline_activity_0124.pdf

UA had an Inbound load of 70% and an outbound load of 59% across all services.

Rivals:
DL: Inbound: 72.9%, Outbound: 63% (Across the 2 per day (double daily) SYD services)
AA: Inbound: 88%, Outbound 73% (Single daily SYD-LAX).
QF: Inbound 83%, Outbound 74% (Across all services primarily from the East Coast).

Numbers are for non-stop flights only.

Loads for UA weak, we’ve suffered from multiple UA cancelations of late for our business, maybe them trying to consolidate to save money?

 

[serfty]

[moderator hat]

Some off topic posts have been deleted.

Please stick to the topic which is: "United fly most frequently USA <--> Australia".

Further off topic posts may result in sanction.​

[/moderator hat]

 

[Mwenenzi]

United fly most frequently USA <--> Australia, but less next southern summer/northern winter
Link--> United Airlines Updates Winter Schedule, Ending Two Long-Haul Routes — Ishrion Aviation
May or may not be accurate. But not surprising given reported low loads on some flights (all airlines), more capacity and QLD govt subsidies.

United Airlines is set to make updates to its Northern Winter 2024/2025 long-haul schedule. Here are some notable changes I’ve found so far:

• Los Angeles (LAX) to Auckland (AKL) canceled
• Los Angeles (LAX) to Brisbane (BNE) canceled
• San Francisco (SFO) to Brisbane (BNE) Boeing 777-300ER and 777-200ER replaces 787-9
• Newark (EWR) to Tenerife (TFS) extended from seasonal to year-round.
• Newark (EWR) to Paris (CDG) flights reduced

United just launched the Los Angeles to Auckland and Brisbane routes last winter, but no longer plans to operate the two for the coming winter. However, United will make up some of the lost Brisbane capacity by upgauging its SFO-BNE route from the 257-seat 787-9 to the 350-seat 777-300ER between December 19 and March 7. Outside of this period, United will operate the 777-200ER on SFO-BNE.
<snip>

Another UA AU thread--> New United BNE-SFO route from October 2022

 

[HS-TQE]

UA Cuts for the shoulder NW24/25 period

https://twitter.com/x/status/1816651594596753615

The reporter also strongly hints that the DL and AA would probably bail from seasonal LAX-BNE and DFW-BNE once the Queensland Government taxpayer funded AAIF subsidies are exhausted.

 

[UP4014]

Brisbane direct passengers are just not enough in volume. If you’re going to FNQ do you care if it’s via Brisbane or Sydney.

 

[RSVKanga]

UA Cuts for the shoulder NW24/25 period

https://twitter.com/x/status/1816651594596753615

The reporter also strongly hints that the DL and AA would probably bail from seasonal LAX-BNE and DFW-BNE once the Queensland Government taxpayer funded AAIF subsidies are exhausted.

Their capacity dumping has failed.


I think this thread title will cease to be valid once these cuts take place.

 

[RooFlyer]

Their capacity dumping has failed. I don’t think the thread title will be valid once the these cuts take place.

Might depend how often Qantas continues to cancel its A380 USA flights ...

 

[elanshin]

Might depend how often Qantas continues to cancel its A380 USA flights ...

Please no jinx. I'd like to get back to straya thanks .

But in all seriousnessness, I'm not surprised. Having booked all my hotels im already seeing our cost be a lot more than holidaying in Asia and thats before I factor in all the food costs we'll rack up there.

And as for US tourists, their economy isn't so flash either so I don't expect droves of US people to come here when USD JPY is so good or hopping over to somewhere else closer.

 

[RSVKanga]

I think this thread title will cease to be valid once these cuts take place.

Actually, this thread title and the OP’s AFR “news” link is invalid even as of now.

The latest BITRE data (April figures released this month) has Qantas leading UA in the Australia-USA corridor 62-38 (% when comparing only QF and UA in the Australia-US corridor), a huge margin, demolishing UA’s 52-48 lead in December.


April 2024

Carrier	No. of inbound flights	No. of outbound flights
United Airlines	120	119
Qantas Airways	203	198

And with these latest UA cuts, QF’s huge margin is only going to increase.

So whatever that opinionated AFR article predicted about changing consumer behaviour is false, and it turns out that UA’s “expansion” into Australia was extreme capacity dumping which has failed, and market forces are punishing them for it.

 

[RooFlyer]

Well done Qantas! A solid effort indeed. As the country’s flagship carrier, its main airline, flying its first or second most important and profitable route, and after years of graft, you’ve just managed to eclipse one of the three USA airlines who also fly the route.

 

[Mwenenzi]

Actually, this thread title and the OP’s AFR “news” link is invalid even as of now.

The latest BITRE data (April figures released this month) has Qantas leading UA in the Australia-USA corridor 62-38 (when comparing only QF and UA in the Australia-US corridor), a huge margin, demolishing UA’s 52-48 lead in December.
April 2024

Carrier	No. of inbound flights	No. of outbound flights
United Airlines	120	119
Qantas Airways	203	198

And with these latest UA cuts, QF’s huge margin is only going to increase.

So whatever that opinionated AFR article predicted about changing consumer behaviour is false, and it turns out that UA’s “expansion” into Australia was extreme capacity dumping which has failed, and market forces are punishing them for it.

What is more of interest is UA vs QF seats and UA vs QF passengers. (~yield). And then the other airlines on AU<--->USA routes
UA 120 - 119 (1) makes sense. QF 203 - 198 (5) less so. Aircraft sitting at airports some where.

 

[justinbrett]

Well done Qantas! A solid effort indeed. As the country’s flagship carrier, its main airline, flying its first or second most important and profitable route, and after years of graft, you’ve just managed to eclipse one of the three USA airlines who also fly the route.

I know you’re being facetious but QF has always been the largest airline in that market until this claim last year, certainly always more than DL and AA, and as I posted up thread it was debatable whether UA ever attained that title (largely based on whether you count HNL as USA, which I do) and only ever for the brief peak NH winter season.

Compared to the other main route (LHR) it is good that an Australian airline can compete with the big guns. UA, AA and DL are the three largest airlines in the world.

 

[dajop]

Read an interesting analysis a few days ago , can't find the link, but essence was that UA's expansion was all about using spare aircraft at the time and trying to grab market share. However poor performance, and the opening up of China and strong performance of other markets will see the aircraft deployed elsewhere much more profitably.

Also discussed was that the Australia/US market is dominated by Australia originating traffic rather than US origin traffic and this does pose challenges for US based carriers and United, with QF having a big advantage being the home carrier which obviously Australians prefer. Then of course the low AUD and cost of living suppressing demand.

Also the articule speculated that DL may be expanding to include LAX-MEL later this year or some time next year.