Upcoming Qantas Frequent Flyer Changes

[elbarto]

Not a fan of the loyalty bonus being changed so that it resets every year. I've never reached 500SCs in a year, and I don't know if I ever will.

 

[ozmille]

I'd like to know how they do so as for anyone flying Y (most would be flying discount economy) you need to fly twice as much as anyone flying J.

Quite a bit more actually; SYD BKK in discount whY gives you 30SC's if you do it in J you get 120SC's

 

[simongr]

I have also facebooked the following comment:

Like many standard platinums I am quite disheartened by these changes. Yet again Qantas is ignoring the vast majority of platinums in a knee jerk reaction to Virgin Australia. I might decide shortly not to bother to trying to get Platinum on Qantas and instead switch to American Airlines that seem to value frequent if no super elite fliers. This will also mean a reduction in Qantas spend as I switch to Cathay given that AA provide a status bonus on CX unlike Qantas. Keep focussing on your gold fliers Qantas as soon you wont have many platinums left.

Doing the maths last night I can comfortably get AA Plat this year - just not sure what to do about my QF points and whether to continue to just retain WP on QF at 1200 SCs...

 

[NM]

Hi NM, I cannot recall if you were BNE or MEL domestile or not, but just for fun could you not....
Choice 5:
Fly RJ HKG-BKK in J which would cost $275 and earn superior FFP/SCs in whatever program, then......
Fly JQ Starclass BKK-MEL, which would cost $879 and earn plenty of FFP/SCs in QF?

BNE based. I am not interested in routing HKG-BKK-MEL-BNE. My strong preference is for direct day-time flights. And corporate travel policy "prefers" tickets issued by QF (the corporate discount structure applies), so RJ is not an option on the publish QF fares for BNE-HKG (JQ and CX are permitted on the QF fare).

Thus far I have managed to secure 40G on QF127 SYD-HKG and a PE seat on QF8 BNE-SYD so that is more appealing than a random CX Y seat on a 9 hour flight. Its an early start to the day, but gets me into HKG before 6pm and is an Int-Int transfer at SYD. Currently on QF98 back home as it looks like I have a Saturday afternoon commitment, but will change to the CX daytime with a late pm arrival if my Saturday commitment changes.

But back on topic ... even the enhancements to QFF Gold status members does not swing the pendulum back in the QF direction for me. I acknowledge that my circumstances are not the same as all members. But my example above is true and accurate for my situation -its not a made-up scenario to make one program look better than the other.

 

[Scrimo]

Understand your concern.

Just to clarify, 3600 Status credits is the threshold to entry, however we are evaluating a QF Status credits requirement as part of that.

Hi Red Roo,

Thanks for all the updates. I have one question.... When will you be looking at the date for status credit levels for entry into P1. Currently I am sitting at 3610 which is enough to gain entry into P1 however I am due to reset on 1st July. In other words do you have to be at 3600 in Q4 this year to qualify? If this is the case I think it would highly unfair to flyers who have put in the miles this year and might not get to 3600+ again until this time next year. It should be awarded to anyone who has done 3600+ in this calendar year.

Look forward to your thoughts on this.

 

[medhead]

Really? So if I spend $13k on a F class return between SYD-LHR, then I'm only contributing the same profit as someone who does 65 $200 SYD-MEL returns?

This is not about comparing one flyer at the expense of another flyer. Contributing the same profit is irrelevant. The point remains that qantas has determined that the person doing those 65 returns has contributed enough to get certain benefits. In fact, they have contributed almost double the F flyer in your example, who gets 720 SC vs 1300 SC for those 65 return flights. If they are retaining platinum then qantas says they have contributed enough to get platinum benefits, vs the F flyer who has contributed enough for gold benefits.

 

[russ]

medhead, you are right. QF should have instead set the SC earn rate for discount economy to zero.

 

[oz_mark]

To be fair, we have increased the Premium Economy Cabin bonus from 10% to 25%, Business from 25% to 50% and First from 50% to 100%. The Cabin bonus applies to points earned at the time of flying, unlike the Loyalty bonus.

The relevance of this is, relative to other tiers, Platinum Frequent Flyers have a far higher incidence in premium cabins. Naturally, the situation will vary from Member to Member.

While I have no doubt that the numbers are indeed skewed that way, there is a fairly significant group of platinums who fly in the economy cabin - and indeed when I was platinum that is how I got there. Much of the venom on this thread seems to eminate from that group of people. And lets face it, if you get to fly domestic Y all the time, that is a lot of flying.

Even then, it is not because that have lost out, its just they feel disaffected by most other groups getting something extra. There are probably ways Qantas could address this, but perhaps its something to consider.



The main group that seems to have lost out is the ocassional flyer who now will not get a loyalty bonus at all. It would have been nice, in the transation on Dec 1, that anyone losing points this way got some sort of pro-rated amount for whatever they had so far managed to accumulate.

 

[NM]

Great that you have a real-world example.

I'm sure QF are well aware of how many people are flying on B class fares. I doubt there are that many of them. It's just not a market they need to cater for.

I suspect you might be very surprised if you saw the facts. Many corporates use these fares because:

QF offer them at discounts or with reasonable "kick-back" value making them effectively less expensive that the published B class fares.
The flexibility provided by these fares makes them attractive for business travelers whose plans can and do change last minute.
They are generally fully refundable and no cost to make changes. So no extra costs if and when plans change.

So unlikely to be used by holiday markers or leisure travelers, but quite common for people traveling for work purposes. As soon as I mentioned to the corporate travel agent that I may need to change flights depending on personal (weekend) commitment and possible work schedule changes, it was automatically booked as B class fare.

 

[ReLoad]

Ok - I'm going to get shot down here... but I for one hope the new WP1 level WILL bring some restrictions to current WP access to First class lounges.

Having recently been on several paid QF F flights, I was surprised at the number of people in the F lounge who boarded the aircraft and turned right.

Well you put the W in WP.

I fly all whY, over 100 whY flights alone last year, I cant afford to fly J or F, but i would have thought that flying this often, that frequently means I am allowed to enjoy at least something for being loyal to a company?

So since you would prefer me to be elsewhere than in your F lounge, where do you think it is appropriate that I sit as I wait for my flight?

 

[Fantic125]

medhead, you are right. QF should have instead set the SC earn rate for discount economy to zero.

russ, I'm guessing that's either a hand grenade you're throwing or you do actually work for Qantas.....

 

[obrienja]

medhead, you are right. QF should have instead set the SC earn rate for discount economy to zero.

Just remember that when this "enhancement" is introduced in a few months time it was Russ that suggested it & Qantas are just "following up on feedback"

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I understand many platinums feel disengaged from these latest enhancements, but at the same time you are unwilling to change carrier? Why is this? Because you are travelling on corporate fares and/or your company policy dictates flying Qantas?

The QFFF scheme is a loyalty scheme. Corporate disounts already ensure loyalty. How many people really have a choice to move? (just as an aside NM, as a life time gold you can now have preferred seats, including emergency exits, allocated by Cathay free of charge by calling reservations)

These recent changes have made it more appealing for me to redirect my (completely discretionary) travel budget back to Qantas in certain circumastances, so in that sense it has worked. Will it also stop me from accepting a status match from Virgin? It probably will. Not because the QF scheme is now so attractive, but because it has pushed it to be just nice enough that I can't be bothered to move. So another success there for the changes as far as QF will be concerned.

Starclass fare increases... perhaps there is merit to say business basic fares shold earn the same points as regular PE (after all - that is what it essentially is). But for earning at the new rates, the $200 increase probably covers the spa treatment, salt-and-pepper squid and bottle of champagne consumed during an Flounge run. If you are a once-a-year flyer who is treating yourself to a bit of luxury for your holiday you can probably live without the SCs, points and lounge access to save money. And in fact the money you save will cover the equivalent flights you would have been able to redeem anyway.

The W1 status probably created marketing hype, but without the detail may have backfired as far as a few people here are concerned. For the majority of platinums, funded by corporate fares, they will either achieve it or they won't. Probably not so much of an issue for them.

What has been very clever about this campaign is that it has detracted from the extraordinarily high redemption rates and lack of availability of premium award seats under the program.

Qantas fares are very expensive. Award levels are extraordinary. There are no confirmed upgrades except for domestic flights. International premium cabin availability (on Qantas) at a couple of month's notice is almost impossible.

The program changes suit me because I redeem points for short intra-asia flights on routes very expensive to purchase with cash. The increased earning levels have off-set the assisted booking fees and extra points required to take partner airlines.

I am guessing there are plenty of others in the same boat as me... mid-tier with discretionary (self-funded) travel budgets, for whom Qantas is now more attractive than switching to Virgin. After all, if we don't like it, we can move... there are plenty of programs out there offering better FF awards and airlines with better on-board amenities. Not so for those with corporate accounts which are already secured.

 

[Alanslegal]

Abusing YUPPs (as one person has mentioned previously) to make 3600SCs will simply bring more consequences (i.e. removal of YUPPs as a source of cheap SCs) if said people cost QANTAS money.

Hands up - that's me! I will be the YUPP running sooon to hit 3,600sc if P1 status is sooooo good. I have never completed a YUPP fare before, nor a NAN run, cheap J fare on LAN or special CX fare ex-TPE. In fact, I have only booked my first JASA fare (read cheap SCs) but had a reason to, that is to avoid losing 370SC for loyalty bonus calculations (see above) because QF decides to change the goalposts. If some of the changes are really an enhancement, as Serftyrightly points out ..... why give us notice?

At the end of the day and because what I perceive as a negative to me (eg. loyalty bonus degradation + ATA removal) I wonder what other 'enhancements' is QF is mischeviously up to in the next six months! With P1 still in the works, I have a gut feeling current 1200-3600 range WPs will have their benefit further reduced. Thus I will not aim for WP again, maybe SG but not WP. However definitely will go for P1 if its that good (read $5k worth of YUPPs).

Upto this date I always had high praise for QF and always persuaded family and friends - those once in a year type flyers - to fly them. But I'm changed, and so has QF, and from now I will be highly encouraging my family and friends to avoid QF where possible. This may be soooo miniscule in the scheme of things, but one loss passenger is still a loss IMO. My sister and her family (husband and two kids) flies once per year from SIN to SYD, usually around Christmas time, and always flies QF .... guess what I will be telling her this year!!

Another example, three weeks ago I had a free QP card and as my other sister was thinking about travelling I gave it to her to use. She ended up flying QF to HKG, when her preference is usually with SQ or CX (twice p.a type flyer). Now next time, I won't be promoting QF. Again, QF's loss.

 

[connieguy]

Just remember that when this "enhancement" is introduced in a few months time it was Russ that suggested it & Qantas are just "following up on feedback"

Well it seems that talking about building SCs using JQ StarClass flights on this forum just cost me $200 more per flight (~$8,000 more over the next 12 months) when JQ/QF "Enhanced" their StarClass offering by introducing Business Standard at around the old 12 month averaged StarClass fare I paid but without the miles, SCs or lounge access.

Yup talk on this forum cuts both ways, well for WPs, so far only down.

 

[simongr]

I understand many platinums feel disengaged from these latest enhancements, but at the same time you are unwilling to change carrier? Why is this? Because you are travelling on corporate fares and/or your company policy dictates flying Qantas?

The QFFF scheme is a loyalty scheme. Corporate disounts already ensure loyalty. How many people really have a choice to move? (just as an aside NM, as a life time gold you can now have preferred seats, including emergency exits, allocated by Cathay free of charge by calling reservations).

I have the choice to move carriers - I get quotes from all carriers whenever I can - if QF is cheaper then I often look at how to make other carriers cheaper. E.g. on my last trip to the UK I flew BA as I could add on flights to Cyprus for only $300 (which I paid personally). However flying to BKK it was cheaper on QF and I was able to upgrade to F (though I sort of wish I hadn't) so I flew QF. On my last India trip I flew QF to SIN, 9W to DEL and CX back so yes I can and will vote with my feet.

 

[medhead]

medhead, you are right. QF should have instead set the SC earn rate for discount economy to zero.

And you know I'd have no problem with that if it is a clear business decision. But if they came out and said get excited we've enhanced your experience by giving you 0 for cheap airfares. Problem!

 

[OverrideServlet]

Platinum One certainly sounds like it's designed to be a fairly exclusive club.

I found it really interesting (read: confusing) that they made so much noise about it in the media.

Not drawing any conclusions here, just saying; there was a lot of hoo-hah for something that is way out of reach for > 99% of their members.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Well you put the W in WP.

I fly all whY, over 100 whY flights alone last year, I cant afford to fly J or F, but i would have thought that flying this often, that frequently means I am allowed to enjoy at least something for being loyal to a company?

So since you would prefer me to be elsewhere than in your F lounge, where do you think it is appropriate that I sit as I wait for my flight?

Not being funny here - but in the business class lounge.

There is a lot of debate about the value of a WP in Y vs a WP in F, and I appreciate this has been discussed in great detail.

But, on a one-off, per flight basis, I pay $9000 for an F class to HKG (First saver), compared to $1000 in discount Y, I would prefer to have lounges with a level of service and entry requirements reflecting that.

But when I fly economy that is a choice I have made - I don't expect a complete First class experience. I get enough benefits as a gold to make the travel experience acceptable (and to influence my choice of carrier) without an F lounge. (Sure the F lounge is great, but I don't expect of demand it.)

 

[drewbles]

Yes I agree the Facebook posts were a little surprising, also the fact that QF responded mid rants similar to Red Roo to state that they were monitoring the feedback :shock:
Perhaps QF have begun to truly embrace social media?

I think it's pretty obvious they made an attempt, and it's backfiring on them.

They came on here and FT, dipping their toes in the water to see how things would go. They did surveys, and monitored stuff on here.

They took bits and pieces of what we suggested and implemented them in ways that have displeased some and pleased others.

They lowered the bar for Silver (not asked for), increased points earn for Silver and Gold (not asked for) and announced Platinum One (suggested) whilst not touching Platinum and making it nowhere near worth twice-the-flying as Gold.

I commend QF for attempting to embrace the social media, but they seem to be doing it saying "we'll take all comments on board" and then, when changes are announced, they only respond to the feedback they want to, and ignore requests for information on removed benefits or why something else was not changed (Platinum in this case).

They need to take a leaf out of Virgin's book. Crazydave and co may not be able to tell us things we'd like to know, but at least they come here and say 'sorry guys can't say anything' or similar.