Upcoming Qantas Frequent Flyer Changes

[NM]

The QFFF scheme is a loyalty scheme. Corporate disounts already ensure loyalty. How many people really have a choice to move?

In my example, the same fare purchase from QF is valid for flights operated by both QF and CX. I can choose which airline (if those for which the fare is valid) and the FF program I will use.

(just as an aside NM, as a life time gold you can now have preferred seats, including emergency exits, allocated by Cathay free of charge by calling reservations)

Yes, I have done this in the past. In my example, I have been able to preallocate a PE seat on QF8 BNE-SYD and my favourite 747 economy seat (40G) on QF127 SYD-HKG. The seat map for the direct CX flight does not show any better options for me to call and request. I prefer QF Y seats to CX Y seats for comfort. So happy to stick with day-time QF via SYD outbound. But I will take CX day-time return if my schedule changes to permit the late evening arrival rather than QF overnight return.

... These recent changes have made it more appealing for me to redirect my (completely discretionary) travel budget back to Qantas in certain circumastances, so in that sense it has worked. Will it also stop me from accepting a status match from Virgin? It probably will. Not because the QF scheme is now so attractive, but because it has pushed it to be just nice enough that I can't be bothered to move. So another success there for the changes as far as QF will be concerned.

Starclass fare increases... perhaps there is merit to say business basic fares shold earn the same points as regular PE (after all - that is what it essentially is). But for earning at the new rates, the $200 increase probably covers the spa treatment, salt-and-pepper squid and bottle of champagne consumed during an Flounge run. If you are a once-a-year flyer who is treating yourself to a bit of luxury for your holiday you can probably live without the SCs, points and lounge access to save money. And in fact the money you save will cover the equivalent flights you would have been able to redeem anyway.

The W1 status probably created marketing hype, but without the detail may have backfired as far as a few people here are concerned. For the majority of platinums, funded by corporate fares, they will either achieve it or they won't. Probably not so much of an issue for them.

What has been very clever about this campaign is that it has detracted from the extraordinarily high redemption rates and lack of availability of premium award seats under the program.

Qantas fares are very expensive. Award levels are extraordinary. There are no confirmed upgrades except for domestic flights. International premium cabin availability (on Qantas) at a couple of month's notice is almost impossible.

The program changes suit me because I redeem points for short intra-asia flights on routes very expensive to purchase with cash. The increased earning levels have off-set the assisted booking fees and extra points required to take partner airlines.

I am guessing there are plenty of others in the same boat as me... mid-tier with discretionary (self-funded) travel budgets, for whom Qantas is now more attractive than switching to Virgin. After all, if we don't like it, we can move... there are plenty of programs out there offering better FF awards and airlines with better on-board amenities. Not so for those with corporate accounts which are already secured.

 

[ReLoad]

Not being funny here - but in the business class lounge.

There is a lot of debate about the value of a WP in Y vs a WP in F, and I appreciate this has been discussed in great detail.

But, on a one-off, per flight basis, I pay $9000 for an F class to HKG (First saver), compared to $1000 in discount Y, I would prefer to have lounges with a level of service and entry requirements reflecting that.

But when I fly economy that is a choice I have made - I don't expect a complete First class experience. I get enough benefits as a gold to make the travel experience acceptable (and to influence my choice of carrier) without an F lounge. (Sure the F lounge is great, but I don't expect of demand it.)

Cracker of a discussion.

Ok, so a few points to be made here, I'm not "Expecting" anything, I'm not "demanding" that I get my tootsies rubbed whilst eating NPPP's.

Its just that as a flyer who (after having to look it up) did 96 QF flights last year, all of which were in whY (except for two J which were nil earners), I feel that I am being loyal to my choice of airline, you are saying that becuase (even though I am really loyal - given I have had 96 opportunities to fly a different carrier) I fly NOT in F or J that i'm not of the "type" or "revenue - worthy" to have access to the F Lounge on the rare occasion that I travel internationally? That i should instead be rewarded by a lower standard of service?

I dont think you can look at it on a "one off" basis, by comparing a single F class 9k fare to a single Y class 1k fare. You need to look at why and how a WP became a WP.

I have to be honest, and I'm in the same boat as lots of others here, I've earned being a WP the bloody hard way, without a hell of a lot of fun.

I've been lucky to have meet a few AFF'ers from the forums, who come from all different walks of life who travel in all the cabin types, and boy would it make for an amazingly boring experience if entry to the lounge was dictated by the size of my wallet.

 

[drewbles]

My experience has actually been that QF service has improved significantly over the last few years. I have found domestic staff, whilst not necessarily "exceptional", to be friendly, polite, helpful and certainly delivering what I would expect. I don't think any better or worse than VA - I've had great service on both.

Compared to overseas airlines, they are exceptional (particularly domestic North American carriers - comparing them to AA, UA, AC, AS, WS). The only one that has met or exceeded QF or VA, has been VX.

Same for international - in that case I have had exceptional service from QF, including Y, PE and J flights. Maybe not quite the military precision I experienced with JAL earlier this year, but outstanding in any case. I've certainly had other people report the same experiences to me.

I know it's subjective, and I know that there will always be good days and bad days with every airline, but the bad days have been few and far between with me. The one area I would like to see improvement is with ground staff - could be friendlier, and could adhere to some of the policies a little more consistently (eg. priority boarding which a lot of people have mentioned here). On that note though, staff in the Melbourne Flounge a few weeks ago were absolutely exceptional.

I think the main problem as stated many times by many people is that they are consistently inconsistent. There is no base-line of service. A flight back from LHR the other week was some of the most slap-dash service i've ever seen, whilst the flight over I had an amazing crew.

The Melbourne and Sydney F lounges are not operated by QF staff, they're Staffed, Managed and Run by Sofitel. I've always had excellent service at both lounges. If only QF themselves could maintain that.. consistency

 

[drewbles]

I just liked your post and posted myself

"as a Platinum with partner gold - im not feeling the love qantas - i have gained nothing of value with these "enhancements" i thought this was a loyalty program to promote loyalty, not to ostracise up until yesterday your most valuable customers"

As have I (and posted a response myself in response to you and nlagalle).

I truly hope this is going back to QF FF people and they see what they have been doing in recent times is not liked by people as much as they think it is.

 

[Keith009]

I'd like to bring some perspective to what is undoubtedly an interesting and passionate debate. A lot of people seem to not be making the distinction between the FFP and the carrier. Whilst I am disappointed and even annoyed at the continued dilution of the value of WP status, I still think QF itself is a great carrier to fly with, offering a solid onboard experience. I have had nothing but stellar experiences with QF both on the ground and onboard, and going off to jump on an overseas carrier just because their FFP is arguably better just does not make sense when I know I won't enjoy the experience as much. Just because the FFP is the pants does not automatically make the QF product subpar. It's like saying that you'd rather stay in a Holiday Inn Express over a Four Seasons just because the HIX has a better loyalty program.

And no you do not need to tell me that I can simply credit to AAdvantage or other OW FFPs and continue flying on QF, being a former AA EXP flying almost solely on QF metal myself. I've learnt that I prefer status on the carrier I actually fly with over cheaper award redemptions and have thus made that choice.

But the game is quickly changing. Up until now QF has been the only full service Aussie carrier since AN's demise. So for years I'm sure many of us have simply sighed and put up with QFF devaluation, at least for those of us who believe QF to be the best carrier out there. However, if VAust also offers as stellar a product or an even better product, then FFP will indeed be the differentiator between 2 competitive carriers. I will always have fond memories of my time onboard QF and will fly them if the price is right, just not as blindly loyal to them as I was. I'm still happy to maintain SG, which I believe is now the sweet spot in QFF. And at the same time I'll be very happy to try something new to support the game changer in the Australian airline scene.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Cracker of a discussion.

Ok, so a few points to be made here, I'm not "Expecting" anything, I'm not "demanding" that I get my tootsies rubbed whilst eating NPPP's.

Its just that as a flyer who (after having to look it up) did 96 QF flights last year, all of which were in whY (except for two J which were nil earners), I feel that I am being loyal to my choice of airline, you are saying that becuase (even though I am really loyal - given I have had 96 opportunities to fly a different carrier) I fly NOT in F or J that i'm not of the "type" or "revenue - worthy" to have access to the F Lounge on the rare occasion that I travel internationally? That i should instead be rewarded by a lower standard of service?

I dont think you can look at it on a "one off" basis, by comparing a single F class 9k fare to a single Y class 1k fare. You need to look at why and how a WP became a WP.

I have to be honest, and I'm in the same boat as lots of others here, I've earned being a WP the bloody hard way, without a hell of a lot of fun.

I've been lucky to have meet a few AFF'ers from the forums, who come from all different walks of life who travel in all the cabin types, and boy would it make for an amazingly boring experience if entry to the lounge was dictated by the size of my wallet.

I understand the need to feel 'love' from the airline. But I guess this is a case of different strokes for different folks.

There are many lounges where entry is dictated by wallet size - TG First lounge BKK, SQ Private Room, Concorde Room, Lufthansa FCT, Munich FCL.

To me they're no boring... but then I prefer to have peaceful lounges with as much privacy as possible and where someone genuinely anticipates my needs (recently at the FCT I got a 'welcome MEL_Traveller, trust you had a good flight in from Chicago... we have a shower room ready for you, or would you like a coffee and cigarette first?'). That's just me. I know I have already said this, but compare that to balancing a plate on my lap to eat a meal in the MEL F lounge prior to the departure of Air Pacific (QF) flight to Fiji!!

 

[codash1099]

I'm one of those loyal QF flyers - I've flown nothing else (where there is a QF flight available) for many many years, and where it's not QF, it has been OW.

Most of my SC earning has been Int. flying in J paid for personally, with some Dom flying, usually in Y and most often paid for by an organisation I do volunteer work for. I make WP with about 100 SC's to spare.

These changes do not reduce the benefits to me by much, but taken with past changes and the general PER situation (no J lounge, no F lounge, limited Int flights) means that trying to retain WP is no longer a good value exercise. Current plans are now to earn enough to retain SG (which means no further QF flying this year) and directing international spend to *A via either TG or SG. Dom spend will probably stay with QF on PER-MEL where wide bodies are available, but to DJ for PER-SYD. QF may even miss out on the Saturday MEL-PER flights where only 737's are available.

Sorry, QF, but you've stretched the bonds of loyalty just that bit too far.

 

[connieguy]

Sorry Red Roo but I see the charges below as being about as unlevel a playing field as can be achieved. Fair go QF or do you enjoy poking sticks in the eyes of your WPs? Maybe QF's non Australian CEO should ask someone in the office to explain "Fair Go Mate"?



Wonder if WP1s will get the 125% miles bonus that QF should give to existing WPs to maintain relativity to the other FF levels as well? I can tell you that if WP1s get a 125% miles bonus, I and other WPs will be just a little upset at being squeezed down in benefits to make room for new WP1 benefits. But hey QF may see the light and award WPs with a 125% miles bonus (25% added to our existing 100% bonus) and WP1s with a 150% miles bonus. But if every other QF FF tier gets a 25% miles bonus increase and WPs don't, well the S**T may just hit the fan.

As a WP, I can't remember the last time I was given a Express Pass on international departure or arrival without needing to ask for it. Please Red Roo explain why this is so hard to do?

Then there is the non existent domestic Priority Boarding. Sure the lounges are nice but when the boarding call is finally given in the lounge (much later than at the gate), you engage the 50 mtr long boarding queue. I guess to get real Priority Boarding you need to sit at the gate for 30 minutes before the boarding announcement. When I travel in the states, domestic priority boarding is always there. Come on QF, if AA can do it in the states, surly QF can do it in Australia. Again Red Roo, please explain why this has never been implemented, at least in my experience?

Then there is the PG change from 2,100 to 2,400 SCs (which by the way costs the 50,000 miles bonus at 2,400 SCs) and the capping of Loyalty Bonus miles at 20,000 per year. Sorry Red Roo but QF is sending out a strong negative message to WPs.

I suggest that QF needs to do what they claim they do for WPs before talking about more "Enhancements" to the benefits or about generating additional "Enhancements" for the 3 WP1s that have been awarded what those WPs here who have 3,600 or more SC can not access until 4the Qtr 2011?

So Red Roo please explain to those of us WPs with 3,600 SC, when our WP1 cards will be "In The Mail" and why those 3 got their cards and no one else has? What made them so special they got preferential treatment over other WPs with the min 3,600 SCs. As I said before "Fair Go Mate".

Is there something additional to 3,600 SC that will be needed to obtain WP1 that QF is not ready to disclose? If not why did you not give WP1 status to EVERY WP who has 3,600 or greater SCs when you made the WP1 announcement? Sorry but this seems to be a very strange way to treat your "Valued" WP FFs.

 

[futaris]

But if every other QF FF tier gets a 25% miles bonus increase and WPs don't, well the S**T may just hit the fan.

<sarcasm>I didn't know that NBs were getting a 25% miles bonus increase... This might make up for the decrease in earning when points were earnt per mile, rather than per kilometer...</sarcasm off>

 

[awilcockson]

So Red Roo please explain to those of us WPs with 3,600 SC, when our WP1 cards will be "In The Mail" and why those 3 got their cards and no one else has? What made them so special they got preferential treatment over other WPs with the min 3,600 SCs. As I said before "Fair Go Mate".

Is there something additional to 3,600 SC that will be needed to obtain WP1 that QF is not ready to disclose? If not why did you not give WP1 status to EVERY WP who has 3,600 or greater SCs when you made the WP1 announcement? Sorry but this seems to be a very strange way to treat your "Valued" WP FFs.

I'm not even close to the magical 3600 SCs, and never will be, but I must admit that this was my first thought when I read the press release about the annointing of the 3. Also, are you seriously telling me they've been given their cards, but they don't know what benefits they get?

 

[connieguy]

I'm not even close to the magical 3600 SCs, and never will be, but I must admit that this was my first thought when I read the press release about the annointing of the 3. Also, are you seriously telling me they've been given their cards, but they don't know what benefits they get?

QF announced the names of the first 3 WP1s, which I also thought a bit strange. What made them so special? What do the other WPs at or over 3,600 SCs lack that these 3 have? Why not announce that ALL WPs with 3,600 SCs or greater should expect their WP1 cards in the mail "Real Soon" and the WP1 benefits to be shortly released?

No where do I see the Aussie "Fair Go Mate" and "Level Playing Field" happening. What I can't understand is what do QF expect to gain by doing this? If they sought to gain increased WP loyalty, well the reverse has happened and someone in QF may have just shot themselves in the foot.

Sorry Red Roo but this is a very strange, treating your WPs like Mushrooms, keeping them in the dark and feeding them on, well lets be nice and say not a lot of information.

 

[Red Roo]

Don't say I don't try to be positive and constructive...

To find out how many members had 3600 or more SCs last year, ask any beginner DBA to run:

SELECT COUNT(*) FROM Members
WHERE last_membership_year_SC >= 3600;

I think you'll need to tighten up your WHERE clause with a

AND last_membership_year_QFSC >=

I can assure that we have run a lot of SQL for this review and exercised our spool pretty well!

 

[Red Roo]

Hi Red Roo,

Thanks for all the updates. I have one question.... When will you be looking at the date for status credit levels for entry into P1. Currently I am sitting at 3610 which is enough to gain entry into P1 however I am due to reset on 1st July. In other words do you have to be at 3600 in Q4 this year to qualify? If this is the case I think it would highly unfair to flyers who have put in the miles this year and might not get to 3600+ again until this time next year. It should be awarded to anyone who has done 3600+ in this calendar year.

Look forward to your thoughts on this.

Hi Scrimo,

Appreciate your interest in Platinum One.

We are evaluating a number of scenarios, so will update you when we can.

Thanks.

 

[Alanslegal]

To be perfectly fair, I am going to give credit where credit is due:-

I am going to thank QF FF for these changes. As without these substantial so called enhancements I would have never received an additional 12 Likes. This definitely helps with my AFF PLR or Poster Likes Ratio.

To calculate PLR = it is the total number of likes divided by number of member years. IN my case it is 23 / 4 = 5.75 :!:

 

[coolumbla]

having finally negotiated the 500 posts!
(and the facebook thread)

WHats in it for me seems to be the overall question and a fair amount of DYKWIA

WIIFM?
Nothing new it seems
I will make platinum at about 1200 this year having been comped last year when i was PG the year before

I live in a country town with no QP and SYD terminal 2 has a QP but no j lounge
There are no direct flights to my town on Saturday night or from Melbourne so the removal of ATA annoyed me as i have to fly with rex and the QP was a nice place to sit if my meetings finished earlier (not to mention the cost of beer at an airport!)
Access to the F lounge is handy but i only go OS 3 times a year at most
Changes to the loyalty bonus dont worry me that much as they aren't that great in the overall scheme of things
Do i have a viable alternative to QF for OS travel ? .Yes but its so much nicer to just book my bags in at home and not have to schlep them across to T1 on the bus
ANd for the next trip to BKK QF on contract was cheaper than thai

However!
i have just had the easiest allocation of seat 16 on a 747 that i have ever had
Select seat theres 16 a and b!
First time that sever happened!

I hope that this is a refection of changes in the background to access for WP

i wait for any more changes as i am sure there will be some!


C

 

[Danger]

AND last_membership_year_QFSC >=

Hmmmmm. Interesting. Thank you, Red Roo. Now, to learn what the magical threshold within the 3600 is.

 

[ozmille]

However!
i have just had the easiest allocation of seat 16 on a 747 that i have ever had
Select seat theres 16 a and b!
First time that sever happened!

As SG I have been able to allocate these seats for a while now...

 

[Red Roo]

While I have no doubt that the numbers are indeed skewed that way, there is a fairly significant group of platinums who fly in the economy cabin - and indeed when I was platinum that is how I got there. Much of the venom on this thread seems to eminate from that group of people. And lets face it, if you get to fly domestic Y all the time, that is a lot of flying.

Even then, it is not because that have lost out, its just they feel disaffected by most other groups getting something extra. There are probably ways Qantas could address this, but perhaps its something to consider.

With regards to Platinum Frequent Flyers in Economy, it's worth noting that we are paying specific attention to Platinums for improvements to the upgrade process. We're not yet in a position to announce these yet, but we are working on this; as you can understand, there are a number of commercial impacts with upgrades.

There has been a lot of comment in regards to Platinum, particularly in relation to points earn (given the changes at Silver and Gold levels). I think it is worth noting that a 100% points bonus is one of the most generous bonuses in the region. If you compare the Platinum Status bonus to the top ten international carriers in the Australian market, specifically QF, SQ, NZ, JQ, EK, DJ, CX, MH and TG (noting D7 doesn't have a FFP), we have the most generous Status bonus by far. Some of these carriers do not even have an elite earn bonus. Acknowledge that redemption pricing varies across programs and the value equation will vary from individual to individual.

Furthermore, the improvements to cabin bonuses also improve points earn, and hence earn/burn ratios for redemptions. We felt this was a way we could better recognise the contribution from premium cabins, in addition to the status earn recognition accorded. Whilst the increases to Cabin bonuses are applicable to all tiers, in general, they impact the Platinum tier far more significantly, due to the cabins typically flown by Platinums.

In relation to Economy, we have particularly generous Economy earn, particularly when there has been a industry trend towards reducing or even not having earn in Discount Economy (some of our competitors have five levels of Economy earn). Referring to the list of QF, SQ, NZ, JQ, EK, DJ, CX, MH and TG, ask yourself, how many of these carriers still offer 1 point per mile flown in Discount Economy, particularly on low or sale fares?

 

[Red Roo]

They came on here and FT, dipping their toes in the water to see how things would go. They did surveys, and monitored stuff on here.

They took bits and pieces of what we suggested and implemented them in ways that have displeased some and pleased others.

They lowered the bar for Silver (not asked for), increased points earn for Silver and Gold (not asked for) and announced Platinum One (suggested) whilst not touching Platinum and making it nowhere near worth twice-the-flying as Gold.

I think it's important to have some sense of perspective here. We value the feedback that we receive here, however it's important for us to consider a number of feedback channels in developing strategy, hence the use of formal market research channels as well.

As you can understand, it's important for us to have a broader market view, and we have to balance the feedback from AFFers along the feedback from the broader Qantas Frequent Flyer membership.

They need to take a leaf out of Virgin's book. Crazydave and co may not be able to tell us things we'd like to know, but at least they come here and say 'sorry guys can't say anything' or similar.

Whilst we were fairly quiet during the suggestions period, with over 30 responses in this thread so far, I think Red Roo deserves some credit

 

[OverrideServlet]

AND last_membership_year_QFSC >=

Red Roo:

Do you differentiate between QFSC and non-QFSC at any of the other membership levels?

If so, how?

I'm particularly interested in Platinum status (between the 1200-2400 range) if that helps.

I'm not a status runner, but I'd hate to think that flights I take internationally with other airlines might somehow affect my loyalty status.