Upcoming Qantas Frequent Flyer Changes

[Danger]

This Status chasing is ridiculous. You ought to fly, because you need to (work, holidays etc), not because of the "status" that will result from it.

Ooooh. Them's fightin' words, zeiron! I don't use emoticons so I'll just note I'm saying that tongue-in-cheek. But as serfty points out, for a lot of people, flying is a hobby. I don't begrudge the 'boring' souls who collect stamps.

 

[zeiron]

Hey, I like to fly these days for a hobby. Having status can help make partaking in said hobby more enjoyable.

Yes - I will fly for flying's sake.

YMMV

and that is totally fine, I am certainly not telling anyone what to do. If you enjoy flying for flying's sake. So be it. if you attain a certain status because of it, so be it. If QF improve the earn of SG and not of WP, so be it. The only thing that i am hearing from WP's is "poor us". We EXPECT double the benefits because we do double the flying. The attitude being displayed and the opinions being expressed by some members on this forum is at best, distasteful.

 

[samh004]

and that is totally fine, I am certainly not telling anyone what to do. If you enjoy flying for flying's sake. So be it. if you attain a certain status because of it, so be it. If QF improve the earn of SG and not of WP, so be it. The only thing that i am hearing from WP's is "poor us". We EXPECT double the benefits because we do double the flying. The attitude being displayed and the opinions being expressed by some members on this forum is at best, distasteful.

You don’t think that if you do a lot more of a particular thing than anyone else, you should be recognised better for it?

 

[nlagalle]

You continue to get exactly what you got previously! So im sorry, but I do not see how this can simply be about what you get as opposed to what you get when compared to what an SG gets. It is evident to me that your gripe is that SG's get more than they used to, WP's do not, and what SG's now get is too close for comfort to what you, as a WP get.

the point is people are questioning whether it is worth continuing to credit to QF and make WP or stay as SG and credit somewhere else, and even more, fly with another carrier. there may be more benefits splitting into different programs than all in QF. it's nothing to do with status chasing. I will still do the same number of flights this year either way (Mine are 90% work). my question to myself is, do I try Virgin after getting SG (or even WP) so Qantas miss out?

 

[drewbles]

The whole point of having a frequent flyer program is so that you can use your points to obtain free flights.
Wake up Qantas! You really need to make more seats available as most frequent flyer seats are booked out up to one year ahead! You do not have any credibility as an airline carrier if you do not provide sufficient seats under the frequent flyer program. There is really no point to becoming a FF member with Qantas if you have to book a seat a year in advance. This is going to become worse under the alliance with Optus!

The whole point of a Frequent Flyer program is to reward those who... frequently fly.

QF FF has turned into a 'frequent BUYER program'. If you are Silver, Gold or Platinum, availability is far greater.

If you are Bronze, fly more and then you are a frequent flyer, and QF provides more opportunities to redeem your points for flights.

There have been opportunities to earn points on Optus Mobile for years, so adding home line and internet is not going to suddenly cause millions of people to get tens of thousands of points. I get more from using my credit card day-to-day than i'd ever get using Optus.

 

[oz_mark]

For a point of comparison, the tier bonuses of some other programs:

AAnother AAirline
Gold 25%
Platinum 100%
Executive Platinum 100%

Virgin Australia (Domestic) Velocity
Silver 20%
Gold 40%

Malaysia Enrich
Silver 25%
Gold 25%
Platinum 30%

Singapore Kris
Silver 25%
Gold 25%

 

[Keith009]

IMO, you never had double the reward for double the flying, but I must reiterate, that is IMO. This Status chasing is ridiculous. You ought to fly, because you need to (work, holidays etc), not because of the "status" that will result from it. I am truly amazed (read: shocked) by the number of people who seem to define themselves by their airline status! Arent we, as human beings, so much more than that?

You've missed the point.

OK let me re-phrase. Where is the incentive to do double the flying on Qantas for rather less than double the rewards? Why not just spread the love around by maintaining Gold status on both Qantas and Virgin (or even a Star Alliance or SkyTeam carrier) and simply do BFOD? Or even Silver on Qantas, top tier on another carrier. Or zilch on Qantas and top tier on carrier X. I'll leave it up to your imagination to come up with other permutations. Point being, I have to do the same amount of flying either way and I do not see myself being as blindly loyal to Qantas as I once was.

For the record, I do not personally regard flying as a hobby, though there is nothing wrong with people who do (this is Australian Frequent Flyer after all). Much of my flying is done for work, and probably 30% for holidays. But like most on here I do try to find ways to optimise my travel experiences and make my flying as comfy as possible by maximising the benefits I get from loyalty schemes. And unfortunately achieving WP status no longer forms part of that.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

oneworldplus2 - my apologies. I was going off an example last year (June 2010) where i was sitting with a QF CL comparing flight options. It might well have been ex Europe the fare... I thought it was ex MEL but now I can't be sure.

At the time the QF fare was something like 16k. The SQ suites class was in the region of 19k, and the LH fare, using wither the QF10 or SQ237 ex SIN was 10k (all aud pricing, which makes me think the fare was ex AUS).

World finances were a little more pressed back then as well.

But the argument remains trans-pac... and there are certainly some good alternatives to Europe on SQ business rather than QF F (and I think there is certainly some valid debate on which of those is better if considering 747 services).

 

[connieguy]

If you want a level playing field, then QF should treat us all as Bronze members, but I'm quite certain you don't want that!

You don't like QF, fine - fly with someone else.

Lets say that as:

1) Gold you spend say $20k per year on discount Y international flights on QF/JQ/OW, generating say 600 SCs

2) WP I spend say $110k per year on discount Y international flights on QF/JQ/OW, generating say 3,200 SCs.

As from 17 May 2011, your get an additional 50% bonus miles (read reduction in your cost of flying) for being Gold, earning 600 SCs, flying discount Y and spending $20k per year.

I now get 0 additional bonus miles (read no reduction in my cost of flying, in fact an increase in real terms from 8,000 less Loyalty miles) for being WP, earning 3,200 SCs, flying discount Y and spending $110k per year.

If you ran a business, is this the way you would treat a customer who spends over 5 times as much per year with you and comes into your shop over 5 times as much per year?

 

[wandering_fred]

Referring to my earlier post

Unless there has been a recent change only Y class fares earn full economy SCs on the QFF program.

From the current QF web site earnings table

Qantas (QF) BHK Discount Economy
Air Pacific (FJ) BGHKLMNOQSTVWY(international) Economy
Alaska Airlines (AS) BGHKLMQSTUVY Economy
American Airlines® (AA) GLMNSV Discount Economy
BHKY Economy
British Airways (BA) BHY Full Economy
China Eastern (MU) LMNRSTV Discount Economy
BEHY Economy

Finnair (AY) BHKY Economy

And I could have kept going

I would suggest that Red Roo would need to have the web services team to ensure that the definitions of discount eceonomy , economy and full economy should be used consistently :shock: And B class fares are typically more expensive than T class (when it is offered)

And I respectively suggest that not only does QF need to consider what will continue to attract people to its premium level FF status (Platinum) in terms of the program terms but also the amenities it offers to all its flyers on routes other than the classic SYD-LHR and SYD-LAX routes. To summarize what has been mentioned.

1. Better premium Y SCs
2. Priority boarding at all airports - domestic and international
3. Overnight flights 7+ hour flights get Y+ cabins (eg on A330s)
4. Schedules that connect with OW partner flights (yes talk to CX in SIN and HKG)
And code share when you don't care to fly (ADL-HKG; PER-HKG the other 4 days)
Don't route everything medium/long haul through SYD/MEL (think alternative trans Tasman connections to the AKL-LAX flight)
5. Don't offer a premium seats without some FF credit (the new JQ "business" class)
6. Don't cut the bonuses for the regular but not so frequent flyers (resetting the SC total)
7. Make sure that the effort to get to the next FF tier is always worth the effort for the customer.

I am 25% of the way to QF LTS
And 91% of the way to AA LTG
And probably looking at seriously reduced flying in the next year or so

Fred

 

[drewbles]

You sure about that (int exit rows?), because I selected 16A on my LAX-BNE flight coming up in a couple of weeks and it didn't cost me anything.

No charge in Business or Premium Economy, but we can't select in whY.

 

[connieguy]

The only thing that i am hearing from WP's is "poor us". We EXPECT double the benefits because we do double the flying. The attitude being displayed and the opinions being expressed by some members on this forum is at best, distasteful.

I do over 5 x the flying and spend as would a typical Gold to get 600 SCs flying in discount Y.

For their say $20k spend, they just had their cost of flying with QF/JQ/OW reduced by the additional 50% bonus miles they now get.

For my $110k spend, my cost of flying with QF/JQ/OW just went up.

This is about money, the cost of flying, what QF does to reward the most frequent flyers to reduce their cost of flying and nothing more. So lets get the focus right. If I never entered a QF F lounge again, it would not matter. The QF Business and QF Club lounges worldwide are more than adequate and where I spend 90% of my lounge time anyway.

Why has QF done this? I can only guess that they think they have my >$100k spend per year in the bag and I need no encouragement (read reduced cost of flying from more bonus miles, in fact I now get reduced bonus miles, more cost of flying) to keep my loyalty to QF.

Well they have made a mistake and unless they make changes, I will retain my WP status, skip WP1 and gain AA EXP. Why? Because that pathway reduces my cost of flying. This is not a pleasure driven decision, just one based on how to best reduce my cost of flying a LOT of business miles.

 

[oz_mark]

Referring to my earlier post


From the current QF web site earnings table

From the status credit earning table

For international flights, Qantas Economy is class Y. For travel on oneworld Alliance airlines or Air Pacific, Economy is class Y. For flights on Jetstar, Economy includes travel on Starter Max fares only. For flights on British Airways, Economy includes travel on World Traveller Plus fares.

 

[geoffl]

why should you be?
It really isnt that difficult to attain WP if you are smart about it. i mean honestly... some people.....

...........and your Gold, right ?????

 

[zeiron]

...........and your Gold, right ?????

because my life doesnt revolve around calculating SC's and if i tweak my itinerary to stop here or do a status run there, ill reach X. I fly because I need to and I enjoy the benefit that comes with that. im certainly not going out of my way to reach some status to make me feel better about myself as some appear to do.

 

[connieguy]

what makes you an authority on what a typical SG member flies or spends. You have no idea about what they do, except that they must accrue somewhere in between 700 and 1395 SC to attain SG and accrue between 600 and 1195 SC to retain SG.

My numbers come from what it cost me to gain 3,200 in my last QF year. Knowing that I calculated what it would have cost me to gain 600 SCs to maintain Gold. Your mileage may vary.

You are absolutely right, that this is all about $$. QF is in the business of flying you from A to B and extracting payment from you, they are NOT in the business of reducing your spend with them and I cannot fathom why you would even think that this is the case. I get why you are angered, that your flights will now cost you more, but I really don't know what to tell you.....

It is ONLY about ME and what it costs to do the miles I need to do to support my customers all over the world. I do very little domestic QF flying except to get to Syd/Mel to catch the long haul QF/JQ/OW flight.

Based on what I'm offered for MY business by the airlines, I decide where I spend MY money to gain the the most cost effective transport from point A to point B. I then book and pay for MY flights with who ever gives me the best deal in terms of cost and miles awarded with-in the OW alliance.

Gotta say though that a recent check on the Star Alliance and the 24 direct member airlines has caused me to reconsider if doing business with OW is the most cost effective pathway for me? This recent "Enhancement" by QF/JQ may turn into a wake up call to look at what the rest of the world's airlines have on offer.

 

[connieguy]

because my life doesnt revolve around calculating SC's and if i tweak my itinerary to stop here or do a status run there, ill reach X. I fly because I need to and I enjoy the benefit that comes with that. im certainly not going out of my way to reach some status to make me feel better about myself as some appear to do.

I have never done a Status run. My 3,200 SCs were miles I HAD to do to support my customers all around the world. I make no apology for working out each flight to gain the lowest cost for the max miles and SC benefits, which will in effect reduce the cost of that flight.

My dollar. My butt on the seat. My right.

 

[awilcockson]

I too can select exit row seats as a WP at no extra cost ... on domestic flights and in PE, Business and First Classes internationally.

If I wish to do so in economy on international flights it costs from $40 (T-T) through $80 (Asia to/from Oz/Europe) to $160 (Oz to/from Europe/USA).

Ahh ok, it's been a while since I've had to suffer economy international, thanks for that.

 

[zeiron]

zeiron, Are you a corporate shill for QF? You seem to have come from nowhere, and rubbing up a lot of people the wrong way. It's a discussion forum and a thread about FF changes and people are expressing their opinions yet you seem to be wanting to do everything you can to say how wrong they are.

Can't we all just... get along?

We all need to have differing views on the world, or it would be a very boring place.

There's no point to troll or feed the trolls though (reminded myself that yesterday).

Let's just get back to well formed constructive arguments and try and see other peoples side of the situation as well as your own (or am I being too hopeful/logical?).

no im not a corporate shell for QF, and the only rubbing im doing is pointing out that people are behaving like children, because SG's reward has been upped whilst there's hasnt, and because they fly twice as much they are twice as important and should be rewarded with twice the benefits. Im not out to tell anyone that their opinions are wrong, but put it into perspective.......we have people complaining about things that 1: they cannot directly influence, 2: are barking up the wrong tree (take it up with QF or red roo) and 3: doesnt impact them directly (in most cases).
All I have done is tried to enlighten people to the other side of the argument because they are so blinded by their selfishness and "what about me" attitude. Poor me, silvers get 150% miles in Y up from 125%, SG now gets 175% miles up from 150% whilst i still "only" get 200%. boo bloody hoo.....My heart truly bleeds. And like i said, its the most vocal opponents to these changes that are the ones doing status runs to attain WP, simply for the sake of having WP. Whilst it is their choice, and its not my place to comment on their reasoning, it seems ridiculous to me to do all this extra flying just because you will be "rewarded" with WP status. The high value customers QF are chasing are not the YUPP status chasers, they are the truly profitable, regular F and J customers, who for the most part dont give a toss about FF status as the fare class they purchase gives them all the benefits just the same.

Having worked at BA in a previous life, the biggest whingers were the ones who had a false sense of entitlement (ie: ECG). The truly wealthy and classy (not always) people were the ones who paid for their F travel and could afford not to worry about the "miles" or the "status". The ability to pay for the service they booked was "status" in its own right, and you knew they were "someone" because of the fact they had no official BA status. They simply didnt need it, and that my friends is the best status of all!

 

[JohnPhelan]

in all likely hood, the most vocal are probably the least deserving, and are not the high value WP's they think they are.

Indeed.

I suspect if a survey was taken of all QFF members, well over 80% - possibly over 90% - would say the like the recent changes. The AFF community is far from typical, and very far from a representative sample of QFF members.