Upcoming Qantas Frequent Flyer Changes

[connieguy]

If WP's think OWE, is best for them, so be it. The thing that bothers me most is the WP's sense of entitlement.

"WP's think OWE is the best for them?" Where did that come from? I did not chase WP status nor did I chase chase earning 3,200 SCs nor did I chase paying the money I did to earn the SCs. My WP happened as a result of my $ spent doing the flying my business required.

Maybe a SG would chase WP if they were on say 1,350 SC and they needed 50 more SCs to make WP for the first time. But to chase WP status for the sake of WP, who does that?

As for entitlement, I make my flight choices based on the benefits that I will gain from that purchase. Benefits that will reduce my long term cost of flying.

I would and do expect a better amount of benefits over say a Gold that pays for and earns 600 SCs doing -Y flights compared to me paying for and earning 3,200 SC from -Y flights.

So where does someone who does 1/5 the spend get a 50% additional bonus (effective discount on their cost of flying) as compared to someone who spends 5 times more for the same service and gets no additional bonus?

Anyway I have voiced my concerts and will this year not go for WP1. Instead the goal is plain old QF WP, AA EXP, SG Gold, SG PPS Club and maybe DJ Gold.

No wingeing, just business.

 

[dfcatch]

Not being funny here - but in the business class lounge.

There is a lot of debate about the value of a WP in Y vs a WP in F, and I appreciate this has been discussed in great detail.

But, on a one-off, per flight basis, I pay $9000 for an F class to HKG (First saver), compared to $1000 in discount Y, I would prefer to have lounges with a level of service and entry requirements reflecting that.

But when I fly economy that is a choice I have made - I don't expect a complete First class experience. I get enough benefits as a gold to make the travel experience acceptable (and to influence my choice of carrier) without an F lounge. (Sure the F lounge is great, but I don't expect of demand it.)

And if you earned twice as many SCs to be Platinum, then you would expect something more over what you received at the Gold level.

Platinums have earned the benefit of F lounge access through flying enough to earn the required SCs.
It doesn't matter whether they flew F a handful of time or Y a ton of times as SC-earn-rates are structured to factor that in.

F pax may not have status and therefore get F lounge access based on class-of-service.

I could flip your argument around as say that as a 1200SC/year loyal customer, I don't want my F lounge taken up by your once-a-year F flyer who maybe a rich snob/academic elite flying on the university's dime/corporate flyer on the shareholders' dime.

 

[JohnK]

because my life doesnt revolve around calculating SC's and if i tweak my itinerary to stop here or do a status run there, ill reach X. I fly because I need to and I enjoy the benefit that comes with that. im certainly not going out of my way to reach some status to make me feel better about myself as some appear to do.

And yet you criticise some of us who try to maximise our flying experience.

I go to Thailand 3-4 times a year and commute SYD-BNE 30-40 times a year.

What is wrong with maximising my status by routing a few trips the long way to get some additional benefits? Time is not my problem. I do not have a family of my own and only have my father, mother and brother. If I need to be in BKK on Sunday night then I will leave on Friday and take a few extra flights for fun.

The status actually helpms me tremendously in my weekly commutes more than you can care to imagine. All you want to do is shoot me down and take away more of my benefits.

Respectfully you are really no different to those Platinums whinging/complaining about the additional benefits handed to Silver and Gold....

 

[dajop]

So where does someone who does 1/5 the spend get a 50% additional bonus (effective discount on their cost of flying) as compared to someone who spends 5 times more for the same service and gets no additional bonus?

Where did this 50% additional bonus come from?

From I understand,
For flights <570miles no change.
For flights >570 miles Gold gets 16% more miles than before.
For flights >666 miles Silver gets 20% more miles than before

 

[JohnK]

Indeed.

I suspect if a survey was taken of all QFF members, well over 80% - possibly over 90% - would say the like the recent changes. The AFF community is far from typical, and very far from a representative sample of QFF members.

You jest John?

Where do you get you figures from? You do realise that the majority of QFFers are Bronze status? Each one of those as of December 2011 will not earn any more loyalty bonus poinots unless they increase SCs earn to over 500 SCs in a membership.

That is a very serious "enhancenent".

And anyway for most Silver and Gold members, just like Platinum, who only fly the Golden triangle the new status bonuses are not going to come into play anyway.

- For a Silver need to fly a route over > 666 miles to earn the new status bonus
- For a Gold need to fly a route >571 miles to earn the new status bonus

 

[medhead]

They ought to be aware, that from time to time, the goal posts shift, and when they do, they need to reassess their position within the new framework.

Exactly and this thread is all about us reassessing our position. A position where I fly on my own money every week to get to work, not to achieve status.

 

[JohnK]

Exactly and this thread is all about us reassessing our position. A position where I fly on my own money every week to get to work, not to achieve status.

I think this point has been totally missed by the people calling Platinums whingers.

QF has made a decision. Now a lot of Platinums will re-assess whether it is worth pursuing Platinum in the future or do they stop QF flights/crediting to QFF after reaching 600 SCs.

Personally anyway you look it is that QF has made a bad decision in trying to promote Silver and Gold against VA Velocity and they will lose Platinum business.

If that has been worked into their model then fine otherwise they will find they will lose business and it will not be Silver and Gold but rather Platinum business.

Now to all those that said that Gold can be anywhere from 600-1190 SCs for requalificationor 700-1390 SCs for initial qualification then they neglected to mention that Platinum can also include anyone up to 3,590 SCs. That is still significant SC earning over and above Gold.

Oh well QF has made the decision and to see the backlash at least from AFF members first. I know QF did lose some business to VA and Velocity after the last "enhanements".

Personally to repeat myself again then I believe QF has had way too many enhancements in the last 5-6 years and a lot of them have been to the detriment of Platinum status.

Anyway their program and they can make "enhancements" anyway they see fit.

 

[DC3]

This thread is being closed pending review and possible cleanup. :-|

Please ALL calm down.

I hadn't looked at this thread for a few days. So when I read post #641 I went and looked back at the previous page (16). Ay Yi Yi :!:

 

[gumpy]

I think this point has been totally missed by the people calling Platinums whingers.

QF has made a decision. Now a lot of Platinums will re-assess whether it is worth pursuing Platinum in the future or do they stop QF flights/crediting to QFF after reaching 600 SCs.

Personally anyway you look it is that QF has made a bad decision in trying to promote Silver and Gold against VA Velocity and they will lose Platinum business.

If that has been worked into their model then fine otherwise they will find they will lose business and it will not be Silver and Gold but rather Platinum business.

Now to all those that said that Gold can be anywhere from 600-1190 SCs for requalificationor 700-1390 SCs for initial qualification then they neglected to mention that Platinum can also include anyone up to 3,590 SCs. That is still significant SC earning over and above Gold.

Oh well QF has made the decision and to see the backlash at least from AFF members first. I know QF did lose some business to VA and Velocity after the last "enhanements".

Personally to repeat myself again then I believe QF has had way too many enhancements in the last 5-6 years and a lot of them have been to the detriment of Platinum status.

Anyway their program and they can make "enhancements" anyway they see fit.

But do you see that they're re-accessing based on a 25% points movement on the base miles for a sg? This thread was in reaction to an announcement that sg and ps will earn more points and it did wp's head in?

Anyway everyone good luck with which airline you end up flying, lets hope all flights land safely.

 

[wandering_fred]

Sorry Fred that table has been that way for a long time.
Let me assure you that if crediting to QFF then only Y class credits as full economy SCs....

Yes John I have found the source of my confusion.

Red Roo has replied to my PM - Thanks very much The various economy sections in the points earn table relate ONLY to the proportion of the points that are awarded versus the miles flown.

However in my simpleminded way I will still argue that the web site is INCONSISTENT is use of the terms discount economy, economy and full economy. That is between the points earn and the Status credits earn pages. If the meanings are to be different - totally different terms should be used.

Secondly, the partner airline earn section (whcih I referred to and includes QF) should show BOTH the SC and points earn. (perhaps some partners earn points but not SC?) The principle being the information is all in one place and the QF FF member can't be confused because he did realize there were two sources of information. (For all the AA status I AM still a QF member)

I will stick to my suggestion on my list of things which would aggravate QF FF members with the changes. The lack of B class crediting as full economy SC to QF is one reason I chose to seek Emerald status on AA. I think there are a few others with the same feelings.

YMMV

Fred

 

[dfcatch]

Unless there has been a reent change only Y class fares earn full economy SCs on the QFF program.




I thnk you are right! You do not deserve to be in the same lounge as the rest of us. Qantas should build First Class passengers a new Executive room, not a lounge, a room. The room shouldn't be too big and only self funded First Class passengers will be allowed. First Class passengers on award tickets, upgrades or company funded seats will have to use the Platinum Lounge which will be the current First Class Lounges.

Please stay out of our lounge....

Boom!

Well said John

 

[samh004]

I am truly amazed (read: shocked) by the number of people who seem to define themselves by their airline status! Arent we, as human beings, so much more than that?

You are clearly on the wrong forum then

Or choose to post such beliefs to get a reaction, I’m not sure at this stage!

 

[shearsense]

I hadn't looked at this thread for a few days. So when I read post #641 I went and looked back at the previous page (16). Ay Yi Yi :!:

.....................and through all this I haven't had my 2 cents worth because every time I see post I want to reply to, it is several pages back with a dozen other replies before I can even finish writing...............:shock:

 

[Fantic125]

But do you see that they're re-accessing based on a 25% points movement on the base miles for a sg? This thread was in reaction to an announcement that sg and ps will earn more points and it did wp's head in?

Anyway everyone good luck with which airline you end up flying, lets hope all flights safely.

A number of WP's aren't re-assessing based on increased points for PS and SG.

What we are re-assessing on is;

1. No equivalent increase in points for WP's flying in Y or discount Y,
2. The introduction of annual zero reset SC's for loyalty bonus's,
3. Capping of loyalty bonuses.

As well as the previous enhancements - ATA removed and additional bonus (e.g. Partner Gold) now requiring 300 more SC's.

Oh, and a safe flight is always good!

 

[epsc]

This thread is being closed pending review and possible cleanup. :-|

Please ALL calm down.

Where have you been all this time, Serfty?

Maybe I'm just an old hardliner, but posts that simply insult without adding to intelligent debate have no role here and should be edited/deleted IMHO. Comments as to another person's motivation for flying, accruing SC's, wanting to be in the Flounge - are personal to you and should be kept so. Those of you wielding the 'whinger' bludgeon - look back to the genesis of this thread: Red Roo asked for feedback. He got it. Mission accomplished (and it wouldn't have been if the 'whingers' hadn't 'whinged').

 

[AnonymousCoward]

I could flip your argument around as say that as a 1200SC/year loyal customer, I don't want my F lounge taken up by your once-a-year F flyer who maybe a rich snob/academic elite flying on the university's dime/corporate flyer on the shareholders' dime.

Does this apply in any other business in the world?

Do you think hotels work this way? luxury car sales? upmarket department stores? restaurants?

Whilst I don't know the business models behind it, I can see that there are a large number of similar industries that all seem to work the same way. If you are prepared to spend a large amount of cash buying a premium product, you get extra attention and service. If you spend a (possibly large) amount of cash buying a lot of the cheapest product, then you will be looked after but you are not going to be treated like royalty. Them's the breaks.

 

[JohnK]

But do you see that they're re-accessing based on a 25% points movement on the base miles for a sg? This thread was in reaction to an announcement that sg and ps will earn more points and it did wp's head in?

In my opinion (an I am not an expert) QF made a mistake. There was no way they could increase the incentives for Silver and Gold and leave Platinum alone. In fact at the same time they created another level above Platinum. So now Silver and Gold is much closer and Platinum is even further down the status list. In fact some would say is that Platinum may well be in limbo and could possibly be obsolete with Gold taking over that gap.

Anyway everyone good luck with which airline you end up flying, lets hope all flights safely.

At the moment I have no choice and the changes are only going to impact me slightly.

QF is still the best airline by far on the domestic and just because they got the decisions wrong on the FF program does not mean I have to stop flying them.

On the international front they will lose my business due to the poor decisions they have been making in the last few years and the latest decision. I am trying something new and moving my travel to premium cabins on *Alliance carriers. If I find this does not work then I will give CX a go purchasing cheap business class from TPE-SYD and credit to QF to maintain status and access to First Lounges.

After all I have a sizeable QFF points balance and I still find their Oneworld awards fantastic value. This will more than likely be another 6-7 years before I get to run out of QFF points for Oneworld awards and it would be nice to have some sort of status to be able to pre-allocate nicer seats although Gold will more than likely be enough as I will hopefully reach Lifetime Gold in another 3-4 years.

However in my simpleminded way I will still argue that the web site is INCONSISTENT is use of the terms discount economy, economy and full economy. That is between the points earn and the Status credits earn pages. If the meanings are to be different - totally different terms should be used.

Yes it is misleading.

 

[dfcatch]

Does this apply in any other business in the world?

Do you think hotels work this way? luxury car sales? upmarket department stores? restaurants?

Whilst I don't know the business models behind it, I can see that there are a large number of similar industries that all seem to work the same way. If you are prepared to spend a large amount of cash buying a premium product, you get extra attention and service. If you spend a (possibly large) amount of cash buying a lot of the cheapest product, then you will be looked after but you are not going to be treated like royalty. Them's the breaks.

Yes you're right - when you apply your theory to a single instance.

But if i'm a business and I'm offering a special service for my VIP's, or maybe a Xmas wine bottle etc, I'm going to send them/invite my regular customers. (or in airline speak - my high status customers). Cheap or not on a singular day - they have spent enough over the year to warrant the attention.

The once off cash-splasher.... Sure, I'll treat them special because they are spending big (today), and I hope they might come back tomorrow.

But i'm not going to alienate my bread and butter loyal (proven loyalty) customer in doing so.

So yes - there are countless examples in every industry that you can think of.

The question wasn't "should F flyers be treated well?", it was "should loyal status customers be treated worse?".

 

[gumpy]

Actually I realised something on my flight back from BNE to SYD.

With WP1 I'm not going to get my row 23/24 seats very often anymore on the dom 767's...

DAMN YOU QF>>>!!! =) no but i'm slightly annoyed... I'd imagine WP1's would have the front row access only from Dec onwards... booooooo =)

 

[JohnPhelan]

Actually I realised something on my flight back from BNE to SYD.

With WP1 I'm not going to get my row 23/24 seats very often anymore on the dom 767's...

DAMN YOU QF>>>!!! =) no but i'm slightly annoyed... I'd imagine WP1's would have the front row access only from Dec onwards... booooooo =)

Hmmm, I suspect there will not be many WP1s travelling in Y .....