Upcoming Qantas Frequent Flyer Changes

[zeiron]

7) Air magazine.

what is this Air magazine? ive heard about it a few times.....

 

[OverrideServlet]

3. removing the red e deal upgrade restriction?

Ooh. I like this idea.

 

[medhead]

Broken record eat your heart out! Thank christ I'm not the only one to appear to have some common sense!!

Well, how to describe your broken record of constantly bullying people who don't agree with your world view. It is a shame that you seem to be totally incapable for reflecting on your own role in this shameful affair.

 

[serfty]

What has been neglected in all this is that the "Loyalty Bonus" was a replacement for "Upgrade Credits" which were a replacement for the "Upgrade Certificates" that Blue, Silver and (Top Level) Qantas Gold Frequent Flyers used to get until about 10 years ago.

They were issued on (re)qualification; 2 to Gold/Silver, 1 to Blue. They were good for any solely domestic one-way journey (multi segment). In one year I went from Blue to Silver then to Gold and scored 5.

So I guess it's back to the future.

 

[jamesatfish]

I was reading the discussions over on FT about the removal of Anytime Access for BA Gold members (the equivalent of QF WP) and came across an interesting concept - what is referred to as a 'joker'.

From what I understand, BA Gold members get two 'jokers' per year, allowing them to call and open up an award seat on any flight at any time where there is availability in the corresponding paid fare bucket. Similar in a way to the ability to request award seats as a WP, but with a guarantee.

As the award request process is one of the main reasons I push to maintain my WP level, something along the BA 'joker' lines could be a very useful benefit.

 

[medhead]

how about just being a little more generous with ODU at the gate on off peak flights when the J cabin is empty. Itd cost them nothing but would go someway to restoring the goodwill that WP's have shown with their loyalty?

That would devalue the J product so yes it would cost qantas.

 

[TonyHancock]

QF's status bonus is very generous as it is.

Is it though? I might be dreaming but did I read that BA and AA offer 100% status bonus for their equivalents of QF SG. The same as the WP equivalents?

 

[OverrideServlet]

how about just being a little more generous with ODU at the gate on off peak flights when the J cabin is empty. Itd cost them nothing but would go someway to restoring the goodwill that WP's have shown with their loyalty?

That would devalue the J product so yes it would cost qantas.

medhead, I think you're right. I know that I would certainly adjust my flying schedule to off-peak if I thought I'd have an increased chance of an op-up. I'd probably gamble on a free upgrade rather than using points for an upgrade too.

 

[futaris]

Any chance that this thread will beat the Amex thread?

And yes AAdvantage, offers 100% bonus for OWS members (Platinum).

 

[nlagalle]

what is this Air magazine? ive heard about it a few times.....

It's a Magazine QF send to their top tier WP's. I received one last year but nothing since. Don't know if a new one is out yet or now.

 

[dfcatch]

On upgrades -

1/ The premise that opening up upgrades diminishes J revenue is a false premise.
Whilst providing unlimited automatic upgrades from any fare class anytime on any flight would lead to people booking the cheapest fare instead of a J ticket, any realistic implementation wouldn't have this effect.

An accurate premise is the fact that people will accrue points, and in using points (which are in fact a form of currency payment within QF), they will use them for various things.
QF can either have realistic mechanisms for folks to redeem points, or else Markis will be busy drawing up creative JASA's for people to burn those points in an alternative way.

What's that Skip? You get a J Seat with a JASA? Well, blow me down, I guess you do!! No Skip, that doesn't devalue the J cabin at all!

2/ Complimentary Upgrades

I'm not talking about the AA unlimited version here, I'm talking about the NZ model (or similar).

You get say 2 Complimentary one-way upgrades per year that redeem into U class. (which means you would need to have U class availability). QF could also perhaps allow these to be opened up to a WP for redemption just like the current WP request facility.
I would allow it from any fare class too.
You could upgrade from Y to J, or from J to F, but Y to F would require 2 upgrade certificates.
I'm talking about international here and they should be confirmable at any stage.

You could also have say 4 complimentary domestic upgrades (Standby only).

By providing the facility, but limiting it to a small handful of flights, the WP still has to fork out for Premium fares if they want premium cabins for the majority of their flights.

3/ Upgrades from red e-deals / confirmed upgrades

If retaining the lottery, you should be able to upgrade from any fare. You shouldn't be expected to pay extra for an upgradeable fare, and then lose out in the lottery.

So I would allow WPs to have confirmed upgrades at any stage subject to U availability. (the old system in other words). By linking it to U availability it's the same capacity control currently linked to classic and cheap JASA awards. QF still have the option to keep the remaining seats open for sale till T-24 or so.

If no U class availability (or if on what is currently called "non-upgradeable fare"), then you can waitlist in the lottery as per the current system.

And guys - this shouldn't be restricted by number per year. It should be a standard WP benefit and capacity-controlled as above.

4/ Genuinely greater premium award availability for WPs.

5/ Waiver of award cancellation/change fees for WPs.

Discount off cash change fees for paid flights.


That's all I can think of right now.

By balancing it as above, you can give WPs greater redemption capacity, whilst maintaining the value of premium cabins.

Ultimately, if you're a WP and want to fly premium any more than your half-dozen free upgrades, you're gonna have to pay. (And apparently as we've been told this week....most do)

PS. The idea above really isn't far off what we used to have with Upgrade Certificates / Credits.

 

[epsc]

Thanks dfcatch for some good, sensible, constructive suggestions. C'mon, QF, get with the game here and help us stay with you!

 

[dfcatch]

medhead, I think you're right. I know that I would certainly adjust my flying schedule to off-peak if I thought I'd have an increased chance of an op-up. I'd probably gamble on a free upgrade rather than using points for an upgrade too.

In this example, it's not an OpUp. It's just allowing you to have a domestic ODU if the cabin isn't full.

BTW - ODUs are a published QP benefit, there is no reason to restrict them at the last minute.

They're not free - they cost you points.

 

[equus]

What type of improvements to upgrades do you think Red Roo is referring to. What would you like to see?

Whilst not what I would like to see, I will hazard a guess at the "improvements" to upgrades that Red Roo was alluding to.

IIRC, the terms "confirmation", "earlier" and "SMS" were mentioned, as well as some reference to not having to wait until you arrived at the airport to find out if you have won the lottery. Now the vast majority of people here who enter the lottery are checking in MMB at T-24, and then looking on checkmytrip.com, and watching the status of the generated wait list segments like a hawk - and finding out as soon as possible. However, I would imagine that for a very much larger number of people, they are indeed finding out when they arrive to checkin.

My guess on the improvement will be that you will be sent an SMS message when the upgrade is confirmed (like happens now for flight delays etc), and that will be the total extent of it

 

[TonyHancock]

My guess on the improvement will be that you will be sent an SMS message when the upgrade is confirmed (like happens now for flight delays etc), and that will be the total extent of it

I do hope not. This would not be good. Surely this would be something for PS, SG, and WP, and not an improvement for WP.

If it is just that I'll get my bet in early on the size of the very long thread that will appear here. :-|

 

[connieguy]

What I would like to see QF offer to WP1 is (in addition to all existing WP benefits):

1) Unlimited domestic J upgrades if there is a J seat available. Would work like AA does as when the doors close, if there is a AA F seat (AA has no domestic J seats) available, those that have the highest status on the flight receive the "Up You Go" tap on the shoulder. I suggest QF would not lose any J business as if you buy a -Y ticket and J is full, well you sit in -Y.

2) 12 OW system wide J one way upgrades from -Y tickets per year.

3) 2 RTW F tickets, which would cost 6 of the system wide J upgrades as in clause 2.

4) 12 CL visits per year to make that flight with someone special (business or social) even more special.

5) Additional 25% WP1 tier points earn bonus over existing WP tier points earn bonus on all classes of travel.

6) WP1 reserve pool that holds anything more than 3,600SCs earned per year so they can be applied as a credit as against lean SC earn years.

7) Priority domestic boarding.

8) Ability to order custom meals and selected wine in advance.

9) Guaranteed best seat in the cabin, even at the last minute.

10) Any available Lounge can be used for arrivals.

11) Free wireless internet access, including Skype and email access, onboard all international flights.

12) Partner WP1.

13) Air magazine addressed to the Partner if desired.

14) WP1 and partner special events.


What do we need to do to get these benefits?

1) Earn at least 3,600 SC per year.

2) Fly at least 16 "~" sectors per year.

3) Spend AU$80k min (ex GST and taxes) with QF/JQ/OW with at least AU$40k being with QF/JQ.

 

[samiam]

Oh dear!

Moving on I'm still interested to here the view from WP's on any potential changes to upgrades. A positive change - say three international upgrades per membership year confirmed at booking, would certainly make me happy.

I think that if there were flexibility in this approach then it would be welcomed - vis-a-vis, the majority of my flying is domestic MEL-PER-MEL and so multiple international upgrades would not be as valuable to me - perhaps a number of confirmed upgrades that could be international or domestic.

 

[medhead]

In this example, it's not an OpUp. It's just allowing you to have a domestic ODU if the cabin isn't full.

BTW - ODUs are a published QP benefit, there is no reason to restrict them at the last minute.

They're not free - they cost you points.

I think it would be worthwhile revisiting what was proposed and breaking down the elements

what about
how about just being a little more generous with ODU at the gate on off peak flights when the J cabin is empty. Itd cost them nothing but would go someway to restoring the goodwill that WP's have shown with their loyalty?

• A little more generous - in other words give out more ODUs, making them easier to get at less than the full cash cost. If this doesn't cost Qantas anything why don't they do it now?
• ODU at the gate - We are not talking about an upgrade in the lounge, which are available now at the last minute. Why do this at the gate if it is already available in the lounge. It sounds to me like a suggestion for another upgrade chance.
• when the J cabin is empty - I often see empty J seats when there are no U fares available. But on this proposal it sounds a lot like "last minute empty seat lets fill it". That sounds a lot like the US system. If this is going to work like the current ODU system for points then why would there be available upgrade seats at the gate when they should have been distributed by the lounge. Sorry this sounds like a beg to get extra.

Based on that brief summary of my reasons, the proposal sounds like it would devalue the J product.

On upgrades -

1/ The premise that opening up upgrades diminishes J revenue is a false premise.

The value of a product, the perceived value of a product, is different from revenue. I did say devalue not lose revenue

An accurate premise is the fact that people will accrue points, and in using points (which are in fact a form of currency payment within QF), they will use them for various things.
QF can either have realistic mechanisms for folks to redeem points, or else Markis will be busy drawing up creative JASA's for people to burn those points in an alternative way.

What's that Skip? You get a J Seat with a JASA? Well, blow me down, I guess you do!! No Skip, that doesn't devalue the J cabin at all!

Based on these comments about people using their points, and equating revenue with value then the answer, skip, is no it doesn't.

PS. The idea above really isn't far off what we used to have with Upgrade Certificates / Credits.

Since we/qantas already traded off upgrade certificates for the loyalty bonus, we would have to trade back the loyalty bonus for upgrade certificates. At least that might make anyone concerned about the new loyalty bonus system more happy.

 

[oz_mark]

Is it though? I might be dreaming but did I read that BA and AA offer 100% status bonus for their equivalents of QF SG. The same as the WP equivalents?

Correct, in BA and AA the equivalents to both QF gold and platinum earn 100% tier bonus.

 

[dfcatch]

I think it would be worthwhile revisiting what was proposed and breaking down the elements

• A little more generous - in other words give out more ODUs, making them easier to get at less than the full cash cost. If this doesn't cost Qantas anything why don't they do it now?
• ODU at the gate - We are not talking about an upgrade in the lounge, which are available now at the last minute. Why do this at the gate if it is already available in the lounge. It sounds to me like a suggestion for another upgrade chance.
• when the J cabin is empty - I often see empty J seats when there are no U fares available. But on this proposal it sounds a lot like "last minute empty seat lets fill it". That sounds a lot like the US system. If this is going to work like the current ODU system for points then why would there be available upgrade seats at the gate when they should have been distributed by the lounge. Sorry this sounds like a beg to get extra.

Based on that brief summary of my reasons, the proposal sounds like it would devalue the J product.



The value of a product, the perceived value of a product, is different from revenue. I did say devalue not lose revenue



Based on these comments about people using their points, and equating revenue with value then the answer, skip, is no it doesn't.



Since we/qantas already traded off upgrade certificates for the loyalty bonus, we would have to trade back the loyalty bonus for upgrade certificates. At least that might make anyone concerned about the new loyalty bonus system more happy.

Sorry medhead I didn't read into the ODU suggestion clearly enough. I assumed we were just talking about ODUs in the lounge for empty J seats.
I had assumed that there was no current restriction on the facility and that perhaps I was wrong and there was. Given your clarification - then I agree - current domestic points ODU lounge system is fine as is.

On the issue of "devalue" as distinct from revenue - I see your point, but don't agree that it's a problem.

IMHO the value of the premium cabin is to get to enjoy better service and a better seat. If i want that seat/service then I need to pay for it. Either through:

- cash
- points upgrade
- points award
- earned WP comp. upgrade

I don't see it as devaluing the cabin in those scenarios.

But I agree with you that if free unrestricted anything goes at the gate upgrades were handed out - then it would devalue it for me.