US Dividend Miles Buy/Gift Miles 100% bonus - Cheap way for F/J *A Awards

[bcworld]

you did get 400K Thai ROP points as compensation for your earlier USDM trip - so that's about half of what you lost

OMG...you're kidding me...he ACTUALLY got those!? Face palm, TG!

 

[hummel]

OMG...you're kidding me...he ACTUALLY got those!? Face palm, TG!

And weren't those 400k Thai ROP miles a result from the first USDM booking where he paid using minimal miles?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

OMG...you're kidding me...he ACTUALLY got those!? Face palm, TG!

claimed he did.

And weren't those 400k Thai ROP miles a result from the first USDM booking where he paid using minimal miles?

indeed and 11 segments

I like to think of that trip as 'our' (AFF) trip, rather than just shanyee's - we all lived that booking vicariously

 

[Insaneous]

Can't he just ask credit card company to refund all charges (well at least ones made this month sharing miles).

Hasn't recieved what he paid for. Or USDM recieved his money while under investigation (assuming this occured) It would be up to USDM to prove legitimate transaction. It's the risk internet companies take (espicially as they dont get a signiture). Happens to friend of mines accomodation business fairly often... someone doesn't rock up to a nights booking (forgets or whatever), calls credit card company, onus is on the small business to prove everything.

Just a thought.

So... what do people think the likely hood that some of us newbies will be banned/cancelled trying to build a number of miles by sharing between 4 accounts (fiance - diff surname, mother, father). Nothing in the T&Cs about that!

 

[Masonic Phantom]

And weren't those 400k Thai ROP miles a result from the first USDM booking where he paid using minimal miles?

There has gotta be a BOOK in this somewhere!!!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Can't he just ask credit card company to refund all charges (well at least ones made this month sharing miles).

Hasn't recieved what he paid for. Or USDM recieved his money while under investigation (assuming this occured) It would be up to USDM to prove legitimate transaction. It's the risk internet companies take (espicially as they dont get a signiture). Happens to friend of mines accomodation business fairly often... someone doesn't rock up to a nights booking (forgets or whatever), calls credit card company, onus is on the small business to prove everything.

Just a thought.

So... what do people think the likely hood that some of us newbies will be banned/cancelled trying to build a number of miles by sharing between 4 accounts (fiance - diff surname, mother, father). Nothing in the T&Cs about that!

If the account was under investigation then it would not have been able to be traded on - so no buying miles etc. But if as you say, it was a mileage purchase that triggered the investigation, then maybe that should be refunded.

I don't think there are any circumstances that this should be treated as a charge back. Even if your account was under investigation and you bought more miles, you did so on the basis that you comply with the terms and conditions. If you didn't, then you lose the miles. It is a valid transaction, the company gave the miles, just later they were all confiscated because a person breached the rules.

If this was a chargeback and the credit card company had to swallow 800,000k worth of points purchases I would be very unhappy having that passed back to me as consumer with higher interest rates.

There is nothing wrong with sharing between accounts. There is nothing really wrong with giving a ticket to a friend either. But you have to admit, how many people would acutally give away a business class ticket for absolutely nothing in return? Very few (of course there are always exceptions). So if you start buying tickets for other people, different surnames, and you are not travelling with them, that raises a flag.

As always - we don't know the full story here. Or how many transactions there were raising flags.

 

[Insaneous]

If this was a chargeback and the credit card company had to swallow 800,000k worth of points purchases I would be very unhappy having that passed back to me as consumer with higher interest rates.

The business and not the credit card company is left holding the loss. I.e. for this instance its up USDM to prove they had necessary information to prove that the purchaser was the actual one who undertook the transaction. This can only be done by signiture (i assume) as there are no online PIN or signiture methods to actually prove the transaction (i think).

 

[Stephen65]

USDM *A partner tickets are offered on very generous terms. So I find it hard to have any sympathy for people who try to get a little extra advantage by gaming that already generous system, knowingly taking advantage of agent mistakes in their favour or engaging in what US very clearly define to be breaches of their rules such as selling award tickets.

Not only is there the very real risk of being caught and losing everything but also the more gaming and cheating of the system that goes on the less likely it is that US will keep it on its current generous terms and conditions, to everyone's disadvantage. So I heartily support US strictly enforcing their rules.

 

[Insaneous]

USDM *A partner tickets are offered on very generous terms. So I find it hard to have any sympathy for people who try to get a little extra advantage by gaming that already generous system, knowingly taking advantage of agent mistakes in their favour or engaging in what US very clearly define to be breaches of their rules such as selling award tickets.

Always risk you take with these sort of things. Have to be willing to cop the loss and never put too much into. Any airline could fold tomorrow and points end up worthless. Or more likely they could devalue them and again could be worthless. If you go against T&C, it your own fault.

 

[bcworld]

The business and not the credit card company is left holding the loss. I.e. for this instance its up USDM to prove they had necessary information to prove that the purchaser was the actual one who undertook the transaction. This can only be done by signiture (i assume) as there are no online PIN or signiture methods to actually prove the transaction (i think).

Add into the mix that the financial transaction actually occurs with points.com & I'm not sure where that leaves you.

 

[Shanye2233]

shanyee - sorry to hear what has happened.

First of all - (let's get this out of the way) - you KNEW this had a very good chance of happening. Everyone has been warned and others (myself included) have spoken about it on various forums and have mentioned the possibility that your accounts could get audited. Buying tickets for other passengers (different surnames to those on the account) is risky. You know from reading the rules that miles can't be traded, and the presumption is that no one simply gives away a valuable ticket for no money in return. In your case, you clearly breached the rules by selling your ticket for someone else.

Now - what to do?

From what i understand it is almost impossible to actually speak to someone in the fraud department at most airlines. They don't really want to talk to passengers. But my first avenue would be to call and try and speak to someone. If that doesn't work, then you will have ONE chance to write a very carefully scripted letter explaining your actions, and asking for reinstatement.

That letter will probably need to go to one of their heads of customer service or something. But it will need to be a good letter - apologising for your error, and explaining it will never happen again, and asking for leniency.

The letter should also explain that the other accounts in the household had nothing to do with your actions and should be excused from the closure.

If that doesn't work, then I'm afraid you may need to seek legal advice - but that will have to be in the USA. And the hard part will be finding a lawyer willing to take on your case. And it will cost you.

There is an argument that the total closure of all your accounts, without you having the opportunity to fully explain your actions may be a breach of contract and an unfair penalty - especially to those other accounts who were not involved. (Basically - you would need to argue that one breach (if it was in fact only one breach) should not lead to such a harsh outcome).

If you want to keep your costs to a minimum (no lawyers) you need to take a complete apologetic approach to this. Hopefully you will get lucky.

email has been sent and the second post I wrote was their reply. This is the first time I brought a ticket for someone else name other than mine. Most we're purchased miles . When I got the email I rang my credit card company and told them to dispute the charges of sharing miles and was told the charges are still pending and can not be in dispute until processed. I have contacted a lawyer in Sydney which he has so far told me they have cancelled all family account they must think they are all "dummy" accounts which I have made,

 

[lmere12]

a lawyer in Sydney which he has so far told me they have cancelled all family account they must think they are all "dummy" accounts which I have made,

You have all traveled in the past so surely that's not the issue

 

[MEL_Traveller]

As I said - you have ONE chance at writing a good email and possibly getting your points back, or at least those points from the family accounts.

While i appreciate you have a lawyer in Sydney, that lawyer in Sydney needs to comb through Flyertalk and other bulletin boards and make sure the approach they take is the one with the most chance of success. From what i have read, that usually involves admitting you were in breach, and promising you won't ever do it again. You would be able to use the same letter to point out that your family accounts are not dummy accounts, and that the named people on the accounts have actually taken flights!

What is important with the credit card company will be the window between when your account was actually closed 9and miles confiscated) and when you purchased the miles.

If you purchased the miles while your account was under investigation, then it is a valid sale of those points, and you have no remedy, because you bought those points knowing they could be confiscated if you breached the conditions of the program. However, if USDM cancelled your account, but still let you buy them, that is against the law and requires a refund.

How was the lawyer in Sydney able to tell you they had cancelled all the accounts? There is something you are not telling us (like when the lawyer got involved).

If you wish to proceed with your lawyer in Sydney you need to be very careful. One wrong move on their behalf and you might have no chance at all of getting anything back. (And if your lawyer is good, and does spend the hours they will need to to properly research these cases on FT and other blogs) then you are probably going to end up paying more for your lawyer than what you lost.

 

[burmans]

Thanks for the word of confidence! I guess the thing about all this is tht they don't make contact first and ask you to explain rather just cancel everything, luckily your friend wasn't already in JNB needing to buy a new ticket home.

I think the advise MEL_traveller has given up thread is as good as it can get. I noticed you havent posted this on flyertalk as of yet. Would be interesting to see the reaction there.

The problem is Shanye you have stated that, YES, you did break their terms and conditions. But I aagree with MEL_traveller that cancelling all the accounts is unjust punishment.

I think based on what Shayne has told us, yes he did break the T&C's but there area couple of things that concern me slightly
1) No attempt to ask Shayne what he was doing.
2) Closing down the accounts of the related parties (though there may be more than this).

I would suspect there are a few people here and elsewhere who legitimately have a few accounts in a family where one person "manages" those accounts, e.g. in mine myself, my wife, two daughters and my sister. We are trying to get enough points for a trip somewhere, either Europe or ASia. We have participated in the share mile promo, and most of the purchase were on one of my CC's. My wife and I frequently share expenditure based on billing dates so for example I paid for her transactions to top up my daughters accounts. I also paid for a transaction to my sisters accounts to get her enough points as she is not as financially well off as us and my wife/I agreed it would be nice to treat her to a trip with us. I paid for a (small) points transfer from one of my daughters account to my sister because my daughter is underage and doesn't have a CC.

Im my mind all of these are legitimate under the T&C's of the share promo (after all if US don't want us to share they shouldn't have a share promo) but certainly don't like the idea that US can close ALL accounts without attemmpting to contact. In this case at least partially desrved but I for one am not confident US will always get it right and don't like unilateral action in such a circumstance.

In my case my wife (didn't change on marriage) and sister (did) have different names.

 

[burmans]

You would be able to use the same letter to point out that your family accounts are not dummy accounts, and that the named people on the accounts have actually taken flights!

Note sure I agree with this part, if the accounts are in someone elses name then surely they should be disputing the closure. If the OP does it surely he is adding to the evidence that they are dummy accounts being managed by him and he would want to avoid that at all costs.

 

[Shanye2233]

I don't have a lawyer friend. I contacted a lawyer after I wrote the letter from my email account outlining everything you have said it was a mistake only have "once" I read it said I can buy for anyone which I did. Then my wife and family send a separate email asking why they are being punished and we all got the same response as I have shown.
The lawyer went over the terms and conditions and said they can not cancel all accounts but were flagged because of the same address and my credit card. So my mum account who is 60 got closed and taken because she doesn't have a credit card so I have to use mine.
I have tried calling them but they aren't available on the phone only email. I'm going to call again tonight and ask to speak to someone in the customer relations division . When they closed my own account I think there was around 20,000 miles so they thought this isn't enough let's take them all there's nothing he can do about it he's in Sydney .

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Note sure I agree with this part, if the accounts are in someone elses name then surely they should be disputing the closure. If the OP does it surely he is adding to the evidence that they are dummy accounts being managed by him and he would want to avoid that at all costs.

if they are legitimate accounts he manages for his wife and daughters then no problem. You would use the letter to say 'I am really sorry. My mistake. I did wrong. But while these other accounts are at the same address, they are my familiy and nothing to do with the breach.' USDM could verify the accounts have been used for travel with shanyee, and that they are legit (because obviously they have travelled and they had to provide ID to check-in).

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I don't have a lawyer friend. I contacted a lawyer after I wrote the letter from my email account outlining everything you have said it was a mistake only have "once" I read it said I can buy for anyone which I did. Then my wife and family send a separate email asking why they are being punished and we all got the same response as I have shown.
The lawyer went over the terms and conditions and said they can not cancel all accounts but were flagged because of the same address and my credit card. So my mum account who is 60 got closed and taken because she doesn't have a credit card so I have to use mine.
I have tried calling them but they aren't available on the phone only email. I'm going to call again tonight and ask to speak to someone in the customer relations division . When they closed my own account I think there was around 20,000 miles so they thought this isn't enough let's take them all there's nothing he can do about it he's in Sydney .

I don't think calling will get you very far given what i have read from other people in yuor same situation. Fraud department (or whatever they want to call it) doesn't deal directly with the passenger by phone. But - worth trying I suppose. But I would be asking them on the same call who is the best person to write to if you disagee with the outcome of the audit. They will give you the name of the best person.

 

[bcworld]

When they closed my own account I think there was around 20,000 miles so they thought this isn't enough let's take them all there's nothing he can do about it he's in Sydney .

I very much doubt that was their way of thinking.

Were there only 20k miles in your account because you just sold for cash a 130k redemption to someone else? Then there is a chain of events...how did you get those 150k miles in the first place...share miles promos from other accounts paid for with your credit card? You can see that the whole setup starts to look very suspect to someone who decides to conduct an audit. A T&C breach was conducted using miles shared from other accounts in which you paid for all transactions. And this is not a dig, but I am sure your US Airways customer record probably has more than one strike or flag against it already.

 

[burmans]

I don't think calling will get you very far given what i have read from other people in yuor same situation. Fraud department (or whatever they want to call it) doesn't deal directly with the passenger by phone. But - worth trying I suppose. But I would be asking them on the same call who is the best person to write to if you disagee with the outcome of the audit. They will give you the name of the best person.

Actually your reply prompted me on the 3rd thing I don't like about the email from US in that while it alludes to reasons for closure it does not really specify what the specific reasons for closure are, it is in my opinion necessary to have the information on these to properly disagree or dispute the outcome. While this is pretty clear on Shayne's accounts (so I probably wouldn't ask) for the other accounts I'd be replying that I haven't sold/bartered miles except legimately and asking what specific reasosn they believe they have to close accounts.