US Dividend Miles Buy/Gift Miles 100% bonus - Cheap way for F/J *A Awards

[Shanye2233]

My own personal account . I don't believe there is any way to get any miles back . I'm more concerned about the part they me mention about civil and criminal charges . My safety is most important and then the money .

 

[QF029]

I'm interested enough in this to actually unblock Shayne2233. I do wonder why you're asking for advice now given you have a history of ignoring it.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

My own personal account . I don't believe there is any way to get any miles back . I'm more concerned about the part they me mention about civil and criminal charges . My safety is most important and then the money .

I am truly surprised you are prepared to lose 800k without a fight... unless you really believe they have a good case against you??

anyway - up to you.

the good news is that the airline WON'T take any further action against you, that is a standard line they use. If you were a dodgy travel agent or middleman buying miles and selling them for a gross profit then the airline might take the agent to court to recover the money, and might get the police involved to charge the agent/middleman with fraud (selling tickets they weren't entitled to). Don't worry - you can go to the states again with no problem.

 

[casanovawa]

Was gonna say, what criminal matters can they haul u to jail for, you skirted around a few of their coughpy terms in the T&C's and they came down on you like a ton of bricks closing all the accounts and wiping all the miles...

That to me would seem like an OTT response that a court would look dimly on even if it is in there T&C's... They can write anything in these things but that doesn't mean they are all legal or acceptable, like companies getting you to wave your rights by putting some legalese in their terms which they can't actually in fact get you to wave but count on most people not knowing this...

 

[Shanye2233]

I'm interested enough in this to actually unblock Shayne2233. I do wonder why you're asking for advice now given you have a history of ignoring it.

Unblock ? I'm not giving up the miles . I admit my mistake it was once only I have written email after email all polite asking for explanation and nothing returned . My top prioirty is if I can be arrested my next visit to USA . Then retrieval of not my miles but families miles . My girls are 5 and 3 so it hard to argue for them but wife sister and mother the points should be refunded . They took a aggressive action with is unfair .

 

[QF029]

Unblock ?

I had you on my ignore list as I generally don't value your posts.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Unblock ? I'm not giving up the miles . I admit my mistake it was once only I have written email after email all polite asking for explanation and nothing returned . My top prioirty is if I can be arrested my next visit to USA . Then retrieval of not my miles but families miles . My girls are 5 and 3 so it hard to argue for them but wife sister and mother the points should be refunded . They took a aggressive action with is unfair .

you have the answer to this already. move on. no arrest for you.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Was gonna say, what criminal matters can they haul u to jail for, you skirted around a few of their coughpy terms in the T&C's and they came down on you like a ton of bricks closing all the accounts and wiping all the miles...

That to me would seem like an OTT response that a court would look dimly on even if it is in there T&C's... They can write anything in these things but that doesn't mean they are all legal or acceptable, like companies getting you to wave your rights by putting some legalese in their terms which they can't actually in fact get you to wave but count on most people not knowing this...

there are potential criminal charges for fraud. US can't lay them, but the police can. It would depend on the case. A multi account holding travel agency is a good example. These particular clauses in the terms and conditions are perfectly legal.

 

[anat0l]

Is it against the rules to redeem points for an award ticket not in the name of the account holder (e.g. even for relatives)?

If so, how was a ticket for another person other than the holder of the miles booked "successfully" in the first place? Wouldn't the person at US DM stop the booking and say, "you can't do that"?

Otherwise, this could be construed as US DM participating in breaking of the rules it set, which are mitigating arguments, or even entrapment.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using AustFreqFly

 

[bcworld]

No it isn't against the rules.

 

[Shanye2233]

If they are not concerned about pressing charges they why when they cancelled my own account and the flight I booked for a friend left my flight un-touched ? Maybe they are waiting for me to complete the journey and claim for damages or they could leave me stranded canceling the trip in progress .

If I cancel the flight myself I will receive nothing back no miles or funds . Isnt there anyone here familiar with American civil law or any sort of legal background .
i might start a thread on FT but I don't want it to get out of hand and have us airways monitoring .

 

[MEL_Traveller]

If they are not concerned about pressing charges they why when they cancelled my own account and the flight I booked for a friend left my flight un-touched ? Maybe they are waiting for me to complete the journey and claim for damages or they could leave me stranded canceling the trip in progress .

If I cancel the flight myself I will receive nothing back no miles or funds . Isnt there anyone here familiar with American civil law or any sort of legal background .

yes - and you have been provided with your advice already.

 

[Flashback]

Isnt there anyone here familiar with American civil law or any sort of legal background .

Let me point you to the title of the site, Australian Frequent Flyer. Ask your question on FT if you want a better response.

 

[burmans]

Is it against the rules to redeem points for an award ticket not in the name of the account holder (e.g. even for relatives)?

If so, how was a ticket for another person other than the holder of the miles booked "successfully" in the first place? Wouldn't the person at US DM stop the booking and say, "you can't do that"?

Otherwise, this could be construed as US DM participating in breaking of the rules it set, which are mitigating arguments, or even entrapment.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using AustFreqFly

I agree with this, unlike some other programs makes no attempt to legitimately regulate, e.g. Qantas/VA ask for details of relationship, SQ allow a limit of 5. US don't seem to ask upfront but then arbitrarily make decisions about the genuineness of that redemption without ever asking?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I agree with this, unlike some other programs makes no attempt to legitimately regulate, e.g. Qantas/VA ask for details of relationship, SQ allow a limit of 5. US don't seem to ask upfront but then arbitrarily make decisions about the genuineness of that redemption without ever asking?

It is important to note before everybody races off getting all upset with US that this happens very rarely. There have only been a couple of reports on FT (and despite all the advice the outcome was not good there).

If you are not selling or bartering miles you have nothing to worry about. But if they decide to have a closer look, then the immediate presumption is that no one just gives away $2500 for a ticket without something in return! So they investigate and make a determination. If you have legitimately given the ticket to someone and can confirm no money or bartering took place then no problems. In the case we are discussing there was a clear breach (selling the ticket), and use of dummy accounts to circumvent the 'one bonus per member' rule. The penalty for that is closure. What you do then can make the difference between getting let off or not.

 

[Alanslegal]

Let me point you to the title of the site, Australian Frequent Flyer. Ask your question on FT if you want a better response.

Or get flamed .... big time

If they are not concerned about pressing charges they why when they cancelled my own account and the flight I booked for a friend left my flight un-touched ? Maybe they are waiting for me to complete the journey and claim for damages or they could leave me stranded canceling the trip in progress .

No need to worry about criminal proceedings. If US was keen on pursuing the matter, they would have filed a complaint at police station, and then they press charges. They have your address, they could serve documents on you using a process server.... and for sure, seek extradition

 

[NM]

When it comes to FF program members "selling" award flight for monetary gain (and I am talking in general terms and not specifically about Shanye2233's situation), airlines have been known to contact the person whose name the ticket has been issued and ask them about if they have paid the FF account owner for the flight. They have been known to do this in a manner as not to arouse suspicion about their reasons for wanting to know. And if the ticketed passenger suggests in any way that they "paid" their mate or some acquaintance for the award ticket then there may be trouble.

So the question to Shanye2233 is whether the ticketed passenger had any contact from US (or anyone, as they may not have identified themselves as being from US) asking questions about the ticket and any payment that was supplied.

 

[burmans]

But if they decide to have a closer look, then the immediate presumption is that no one just gives away $2500 for a ticket without something in return!

You seem to have a more benign view of companies actions than me, if US Airway's view is that no one gives away $2500 for a ticket without something in return it would indeed suggest entrapment on their behalf (given they provide and promote an ability to gift). While not something I think would happen I can't really understand why they can't put some upfront validation. Seems to me a consistent theme across US airlines and hotel chains, they put up all sort of promotions without thinking them through well, and when people "take advantage" of them (but usually within T&C's) use some blanket exclusion, the "we can do what we want" clause to get out of it and close their accounts. Plenty of examples of this in recent times, US Airways is probably mild in this regards. but I still don't like it.

PS. Shayne, no I'm not really speaking out in support of your situation, I think you went too far but that then potentially endangers quite legitimate behaviour of others.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

You seem to have a more benign view of companies actions than me, if US Airway's view is that no one gives away $2500 for a ticket without something in return it would indeed suggest entrapment on their behalf (given they provide and promote an ability to gift). While not something I think would happen I can't really understand why they can't put some upfront validation. Seems to me a consistent theme across US airlines and hotel chains, they put up all sort of promotions without thinking them through well, and when people "take advantage" of them (but usually within T&C's) use some blanket exclusion, the "we can do what we want" clause to get out of it and close their accounts. Plenty of examples of this in recent times, US Airways is probably mild in this regards. but I still don't like it.

PS. Shayne, no I'm not really speaking out in support of your situation, I think you went too far but that then potentially endangers quite legitimate behaviour of others.

I said prima facie no one generally gives a way $2500 for nothing in return. If you can explain it then well and good (and there are plenty of reasons why you might give a ticket away).

in all of the other transactions buy/gift/share, US takes a cut - the cost of the miles to purchase/share etc etc. When member A 'sells' to member B then US gets not cut. It's simple economics.

Further economics is as i explained before. Why should some dodgy individual or travel agent buy cheap miles and sell them at huge profit to clients? US missed out on the revenue over what the miles cost and what the client pays. There have been agents caught out for these scams.

It really is like a lot of things in life. Except mostly its the government that takes the cut. I can bring in duty free alcohol, but it must be for personal use - I can't sell it to someone else (the government wants that pleasure to take it's share). Lots of regulated things are that way so the government (or in our case US airways) can take their money.

 

[Shanye2233]

It is important to note before everybody races off getting all upset with US that this happens very rarely. There have only been a couple of reports on FT (and despite all the advice the outcome was not good there).

If you are not selling or bartering miles you have nothing to worry about. But if they decide to have a closer look, then the immediate presumption is that no one just gives away $2500 for a ticket without something in return! So they investigate and make a determination. If you have legitimately given the ticket to someone and can confirm no money or bartering took place then no problems. In the case we are discussing there was a clear breach (selling the ticket), and use of dummy accounts to circumvent the 'one bonus per member' rule. The penalty for that is closure. What you do then can make the difference between getting let off or not.

This is incorrect . I didn't sell or barter my miles or my award ticket. I simply brought it from a friend who gave me the costs of the ticket back. I didn't get a chance to discuss the matter or defend what happened. It happened once and they took everything. So it clear that if any dividend miles member redeems a ticket for a friend family member other than the account holder they can not only take your miles and cancel the ticket but they can also take your sisters mothers kids even friends account who has used your computer. I'm saying this because this is what has happened to me . I don't have any dummy accounts and there is no chances and no-one to complain too.