US Dividend Miles - post your SUCCESSFUL award bookings here.

[anat0l]

Had the following reservation held yesterday and just tried to ticket- they advised that is over the milage going to AMS and cancelled the whole booking!! grrrrr
BNE-HKG-AMS|STOP|AMS-LGW~LHR-DFW-LAX|Destination|LAX-HKG-BNE

No other flights to get across the Atlantic at that time....

What am I missing?

Just checked the PNR and all the flights are gone

First up, just because you are able to put something on hold does not mean you will be able to ticket it later. When a booking is put on hold, it is not necessarily validated then (let alone sent to rates desk). Since US DM manually checks and prices most of the time, one agent which may give you something of a gift may not be so for the next agent.

This is why if an agent is willing to do something for you that definitely looks out of the ordinary, ticket immediately.

I wouldn't always trust that the reason given by the agent is correct. The only thing that is correct when they object is that they are having a problem and cannot continue. The reason they give has only a chance of being the correct one.

In itself, BNE-HKG-AMS obviously doesn't break the MPM. What is more surprising is allowing the itinerary all the way to LAX and back through the Pacific, which breaks at least one rule. On top of that, since LAX is closer to BNE than AMS, AMS would be the destination and LAX is the stopover ("works" as well since LAX is an AA hub). Practically this makes little difference; checking the MPM compliance on AMS back to BNE via your routing, it still comes under according to the Atlantic+Pacific indicator (about 700 mi off the 25M figure); that said, I wonder if they were using the correct indicator.

On the other hand, if AMS were truly the stopover and LAX the destination, then the routing BNE to LAX via AMS will be well and truly over the MPM+25 for BNE-LAX.

 

[sergeyvzn]

Had the following reservation held yesterday and just tried to ticket- they advised that is over the milage going to AMS and cancelled the whole booking!! grrrrr
BNE-HKG-AMS|STOP|AMS-LGW~LHR-DFW-LAX|Destination|LAX-HKG-BNE

No other flights to get across the Atlantic at that time....

What am I missing?

Just checked the PNR and all the flights are gone

It's not going to AMS, it's going to LAX via Europe
Over MPM BNE-LAX for sure, I can see it even without calculating it on EF - just look at a globe -
If your destination was on the East Coast it might have worked (MPM need to be checked too, though)
Or start in Perth, Perth to East Coast via Europe should work

 

[MEL_Traveller]

... since LAX is closer to BNE than AMS, AMS would be the destination

there's your answer

travel to/from Europe ex AU is not permitted via the USA

 

[anat0l]

travel to/from Europe ex AU is not permitted via the USA

People still seemed to be able to do this before, even after the rule was officially enacted into the Membership Guide. In fact, an AFFer did something like Australia to CPH with a stopover in DEN (or whichever way around it worked out).

Admittedly this was *A days, but again, well after such a rule was put in the rule book.

Case of agent turning a blind eye, something that was possible or cracked down on heavily now? Or is it a difference between a transit and a stopover - my thoughts was it would make no difference (e.g. even if you aren't stopping in USA, going via USA to EU is still not acceptable).

 

[MEL_Traveller]

People still seemed to be able to do this before, even after the rule was officially enacted into the Membership Guide. In fact, an AFFer did something like Australia to CPH with a stopover in DEN (or whichever way around it worked out).

Admittedly this was *A days, but again, well after such a rule was put in the rule book.

Case of agent turning a blind eye, something that was possible or cracked down on heavily now? Or is it a difference between a transit and a stopover - my thoughts was it would make no difference (e.g. even if you aren't stopping in USA, going via USA to EU is still not acceptable).

As far as I'm aware this has been a rule that has pretty much been rigorously enforced both in *A and OW. While it wouldn't surprise me if someone managed to ticket an itinerary with a stop in the USA, it would represent a major exception (rather than just a case of HUACA and you'll get it).

The issue is the destination.

If the destination is Europe, any flights via the USA (in or outbound) will not be allowed.

If the destination is the USA, you will be able to fly via (and stop) in Europe. However - MPM then comes into play. I think it was worked out that ORD would be about the farthest you could fly. LAX/SFO (etc) all exceed MPM.

For the benefit of those who might be new to this... 'destination' is determined by distance - and is the farthest point you will reach during your journey. It is not for the passenger to decide which is the stopover or destination, it is determined factually based on distance.

 

[chrisbris]

My bad then.... I thought you could still route to to Europe via the USA after seeing the CPH and DEN routing...

It was the agent who classified AMS as a Stop and LAX as Destination.

Thanks anyhow.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

My bad then.... I thought you could still route to to Europe via the USA after seeing the CPH and DEN routing...

It was the agent who classified AMS as a Stop and LAX as Destination.

Thanks anyhow.

as pointed out, the right outcome was given (invalid itinerary), but for the wrong reason.

if the agent had correctly identified LAX as a stopover, and AMS as the destination, they would have reminded you of the routing restriction.

 

[bcworld]

People still seemed to be able to do this before, even after the rule was officially enacted into the Membership Guide.

The rule has been in the membership guide for at least as long as I've been playing...5 years now.

 

[anat0l]

The rule has been in the membership guide for at least as long as I've been playing...5 years now.

In the days of yore when LH and LX F was still redeemable and NZ J availability existed, just before and after US DM became the latest *A consolidator on the block, the rule was not specifically in the guide.

Of course, in those days not only could you get away with murder first degree, but you could also convince the judge that you were the victim. It was that easy.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

In the days of yore when LH and LX F was still redeemable and NZ J availability existed, just before and after US DM became the latest *A consolidator on the block, the rule was not specifically in the guide.

Of course, in those days not only could you get away with murder first degree, but you could also convince the judge that you were the victim. It was that easy.

I googled - seems the change was introduced Nov 29 2010 (ie no travel via nth America).

But that was well before the restrictions on LH/LX.

 

[hummel]

I googled - seems the change was introduced Nov 29 2010 (ie no travel via nth America).

But that was well before the restrictions on LH/LX.

Exactly, I booked LH F in Sep 2011... and I'm sure many people booked after that.

 

[jgm]

My bad then.... I thought you could still route to to Europe via the USA after seeing the CPH and DEN routing...

My trip was while *A still existed, & MPM was RARELY enforced.

 

[coolkid101]

The old dog might be severely disabled, but it's not dead *just* yet!

SYD-NRT JL 787 J
NRT-GUM JL 767 J
(Dest 2 days)
GUM-NRT JL 767 J
(Stopover 11 days)
HND-SYD QF 747 J

30k + $180 pp.



I miss *A.

sorry for the really rookie question but if i'm flying from adelaide will the USDM chart allow me to get a connection ADL-SYD then as above onwards to GUM as well? (i.e. ADL-SYD-NRT-GUM and back) or will i have to find a separate flight to sydney then use the itin as above?

 

[sergeyvzn]

sorry for the really rookie question but if i'm flying from adelaide will the USDM chart allow me to get a connection ADL-SYD then as above onwards to GUM as well? (i.e. ADL-SYD-NRT-GUM and back) or will i have to find a separate flight to sydney then use the itin as above?

Should be ok unless it exceeds MPM for ADL-GUM

 

[smit0847]

Should be ok unless it exceeds MPM for ADL-GUM

It does. All GUM itineraries do. You can certainly try but I think you would have a better chance without the domestic sectors. Please let me know how you go- id be interested to hear.

 

[sergeyvzn]

It does. All GUM itineraries do.

Which doesn't prevent many here from booking them -

 

[coolkid101]

certainly will. thanks so much for the tip. will definitely update if i manage to secure something

i'm thinking i'll wait till the 330 days window opens then will book for early Dec 2015 to get maximum flexibility. will try with and without the adl-syd route, might get too troublesome trying to fit that in.

would it be best when i call to give the booking person the individual sectors that i want to book as i see them on the JAL website? (i.e. find the dates with available flights and the separate segments and just tell her which to look for?)

 

[smit0847]

certainly will. thanks so much for the tip. will definitely update if i manage to secure something

i'm thinking i'll wait till the 330 days window opens then will book for early Dec 2015 to get maximum flexibility. will try with and without the adl-syd route, might get too troublesome trying to fit that in.

would it be best when i call to give the booking person the individual sectors that i want to book as i see them on the JAL website? (i.e. find the dates with available flights and the separate segments and just tell her which to look for?)

Yes, they won't find a valid routing unless you give them the flights. If you're trying for 3 sectors each way id go ADL-HKG-NRT rather than ADL-SYD-NRT.

 

[coolkid101]

Wow. Will that even be possible? And onwards from nrt to gum for a total of 30k return? That would truly be unbelievable.

 

[smit0847]

Wow. Will that even be possible? And onwards from nrt to gum for a total of 30k return? That would truly be unbelievable.

No idea. You can only try.