US Dividend Miles - post your SUCCESSFUL award bookings here.

[smit0847]

Gday

I had the dream itinerary of a 36 hour Guam stop sorted but in the 3 days it took for my wife to get the all clear from her boss for the holiday those seats disappeared. The next best available was the what i booked. Not to worry.

Re lifemiles. I had checked their chart and Guam is South Asia and Japan North Asia.

Visa's- both Australia and Malaysia are on a list of 12 countries that only require two forms to be filled out and lodged on arrival.

Pele.

JL F will be fabulous. I wish they'd keep the 77W to SYD year round but I doubt they will. Given the ridiculous award availability there doesn't seem to be much demand for F revenue seats. I was considering doing a gum run before end of March but the lack of NRT-GUM J seats out me off.

Definitely get out of Gum- you'll go insane being there for 9 days. I went 5 days the first time and was pretty bored- there's not that much to do.

Maybe HNL?

 

[smit0847]

Kudos again on that. Looks like an awesome trip.

I initially misread and thought "surely he's missed a "1" infront of that 40k before relearning that GUM sits in South Pacific.

With your successful stopover booking, I'm inclined to wonder whether an open jaw would be allowed on an intra-zone ticket...

Why do you think there's dozens of Gum bookings In The successful bookings thread?!? it's not like it's somewhere people actually want to go!

It breaks enough rules that I can't see why an open jaw couldn't be tried- what route were you thinking?

 

[exceladdict]

Why do you think there's dozens of Gum bookings In The successful bookings thread?!?  it's not like it's somewhere people actually want to go!

It breaks enough rules that I can't see why an open jaw couldn't be tried- what route were you thinking?

Considering something like PER-SYD-NRT-GUM // GUM-MNL-KIX-NRT // NRT-SYD/HKG-PER. The risk could be they won't like the open jaw leaving me in a different zone. I could always be cheeky and try to suggest that HND is in the South Pacific.

 

[smit0847]

Considering something like PER-SYD-NRT-GUM // GUM-MNL-KIX-NRT // NRT-SYD/HKG-PER. The risk could be they won't like the open jaw leaving me in a different zone. I could always be cheeky and try to suggest that HND is in the South Pacific.

??? There's no one world flights from gum - MNL?

 

[exceladdict]

??? There's no one world flights from gum - MNL?

Oh, the middle part would be my own itinerary during the open jaw. Sorry for being unclear.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Oh, the middle part would be my own itinerary during the open jaw. Sorry for being unclear.

an open jaw and stopover would not be permitted. This is enforced, even on itineraries where a stopover is allowed.

 

[exceladdict]

an open jaw and stopover would not be permitted. This is enforced, even on itineraries where a stopover is allowed.

Thanks, yeah I've had that issue before. The question is, can the first city of an open jaw be in one zone and the second other part be in another without being illegal. (probably getting a bit OT from the successful bookings, sorry).

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Thanks, yeah I've had that issue before. The question is, can the first city of an open jaw be in one zone and the second other part be in another without being illegal. (probably getting a bit OT from the successful bookings, sorry).

yes.

provided the open jaw is either at the beginning or end point (you know what I mean), they can be in different zones, but you will be charged accordingly.

You just can't have the open jaw in the middle as it is then effectively both open-jaw and stopover.

 

[Beta4Me]

yes. provided the open jaw is either at the beginning or end point (you know what I mean), they can be in different zones, but you will be charged accordingly.

You just can't have the open jaw in the middle as it is then effectively both open-jaw and stopover.

Nope. You can have the open jaw anywhere. The destination is generally considered to be the furthest away city and the stopover the closer one (to the origin) but that is seldom enforced when the routing is logical/most direct. An open jaw is simply the stopover and destination with no flights in between when it is done in the middle of an award. This is absolutely legal.

However, you have 0 entitlement to a stopover/open jaw on a single zone award. People sometimes get lucky with a stopover, but I've never heard of an open jaw in the middle on one. (I got an origin open jaw plus 2 stopovers (1 real and 1 technical one at 25.5hrs) back in the *A days but that's long gone now).

TLDR: you can't open jaw an AUS to GUM and back award. Period. But you can often get a stopover.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Nope. You can have the open jaw anywhere.

You can't have an open jaw in the middle of your itinerary (ie at your stopover if you have one).

For example: SYD-HKG//TPE-NRT (destination)-SYD

While HKG would be a legal stopover, you aren't permitted to open jaw the stopover to leave from TPE to get to NRT.

 

[hossein_au]

You can't have an open jaw in the middle of your itinerary (ie at your stopover if you have one).

For example: SYD-HKG//TPE-NRT (destination)-SYD

While HKG would be a legal stopover, you aren't permitted to open jaw the stopover to leave from TPE to get to NRT.

Wouldn't your example be simply a SYD-NRT return, with an open jaw? Notwithstanding USDM rules, there is no stop over in this example, merely an open jaw. Or have I missed your point completely?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Wouldn't your example be simply a SYD-NRT return, with an open jaw? Notwithstanding USDM rules, there is no stop over in this example, merely an open jaw. Or have I missed your point completely?

in my example, SYD-HKG (stopover), own arrangements to TPE (open jaw), then continuing to NRT (destination), before returning home.

Now allowed under the rules as you have both a stopover and open jaw on the HKG-TPE sectors.

You could do SYD-NRT-TPE, and open jaw to return HKG-SYD (or HKG-NRT-SYD), but you wouldn't be allowed to stop in NRT in either direction because you already have the open jaw in TPE/HKG.

 

[hossein_au]

in my example, SYD-HKG (stopover), own arrangements to TPE (open jaw), then continuing to NRT (destination), before returning home.

Now allowed under the rules as you have both a stopover and open jaw on the HKG-TPE sectors.

I don't get this part. Based on your explanation any and all open jaws are counted as stopover as well?! I have always thought a stopover is a break in journey in the same city, while an open jaw is a break in journey ending in one place and resuming in another. I thought they are different?

 

[tm.smile]

In MEL_Traveller's example,

You can only have one break in your journey if you have an open jaw (usually at your destination and returning from a different city). By having your open jaw between HKG and TPE, then continuing to NRT, you have a stopover in your journey as well as an open jaw. You can only have two stops if there is also no open jaw.

I had to think about it for a minute to clarify...

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I don't get this part. Based on your explanation any and all open jaws are counted as stopover as well?! I have always thought a stopover is a break in journey in the same city, while an open jaw is a break in journey ending in one place and resuming in another. I thought they are different?

when saying an open jaw can only be at the beginning or end of the ticket it means just that.

MEL-NRT-SYD is fine - open jaw is at the beginning country (australia)

MEL-NRT, KIX-MEL is fine - open jaw is at the end country (Japan)


Now MEL-HKG-NRT-MEL would be fine, one stopover and no open jaws.

But: if you want to play around with your HKG stopover... fly into HKG and then make your own way to TPE, it becomes both a stopover AND and open jaw. And in the middle of your itinerary.


Maybe a more practical example would be a MEL-LAX-JFK-MEL schedule. Someone might want to take a detour while in LAX to visit LAS, and continue from LAS-JFK (makes sense, don't have to back-track to LAX). The itinerary MEL-LAX//LAS-JFK (destination)-MEL falls foul of the stopover + open jaw rules.

 

[Beta4Me]

when saying an open jaw can only be at the beginning or end of the ticket it means just that.

MEL-NRT-SYD is fine - open jaw is at the beginning country (australia)

MEL-NRT, KIX-MEL is fine - open jaw is at the end country (Japan)

Sorry mate. Makes more sense now. I didn't interpret "end" to mean "destination" I interpreted it as the origin country again (I.e. the end of the trip).

 

[hossein_au]

when saying an open jaw can only be at the beginning or end of the ticket it means just that.

This is a USDM rule, isn't it? For a non-USDM ticket an open jaw can be en-route, can it not?

MEL-NRT-SYD is fine - open jaw is at the beginning country (australia)

MEL-NRT, KIX-MEL is fine - open jaw is at the end country (Japan)


Now MEL-HKG-NRT-MEL would be fine, one stopover and no open jaws.

But: if you want to play around with your HKG stopover... fly into HKG and then make your own way to TPE, it becomes both a stopover AND and open jaw. And in the middle of your itinerary.


Maybe a more practical example would be a MEL-LAX-JFK-MEL schedule. Someone might want to take a detour while in LAX to visit LAS, and continue from LAS-JFK (makes sense, don't have to back-track to LAX). The itinerary MEL-LAX//LAS-JFK (destination)-MEL falls foul of the stopover + open jaw rules.

I think we are mixing USDM rules and the definitions here. Using your example, am I right in saying MEL-LAX//LAS-JFK-LAX-MEL, in general sense of the definition, is a MEL-JFK-MEL journey with one open jaw between LAX and LAS (with no "stopover", provided all other transits are <24 hours)? Whether it is allowed or not under USDM rules is a separate issue.

 

[anat0l]

This is a USDM rule, isn't it? For a non-USDM ticket an open jaw can be en-route, can it not?

From what I can tell, customarily "open jaw" typically refers to the beginning or end of the routing, not in the middle. The reasoning for this is that if you trace the route of an itinerary that contains an open jaw, one end is "open" (like a jaw that is opening).

If it occurs in the middle of a routing, I think they are just called break (of journey) or surface sectors.

 

[hossein_au]

From what I can tell, customarily "open jaw" typically refers to the beginning or end of the routing, not in the middle. The reasoning for this is that if you trace the route of an itinerary that contains an open jaw, one end is "open" (like a jaw that is opening).

If it occurs in the middle of a routing, I think they are just called break (of journey) or surface sectors.

Firstly, sorry to keep asking; I am eager to learn if I am mistaken.

So a, say, MEL-SIN-FRA//CDG-LHR (destination)-SIN-MEL itinerary is not technically an open jaw? I thought this was the exact definition of open jaw (i.e. arriving at a port followed by departure from another port, at any stage of the itinerary)??

 

[MEL_Traveller]

From what I can tell, customarily "open jaw" typically refers to the beginning or end of the routing, not in the middle. The reasoning for this is that if you trace the route of an itinerary that contains an open jaw, one end is "open" (like a jaw that is opening).

If it occurs in the middle of a routing, I think they are just called break (of journey) or surface sectors.

that may be the correct terminology! However USDM doesn't appear (that I could find) to have a restriction on surface sectors in the middle of an award. however, they have prohibited such. The reason they give is that you can't 'open jaw' the stopover.

That's the definition that has stuck as far as USDM is concerned, even though I guess it might not meet the true definition of 'open jaw'.