Velocity changes: Changes to status credits

[samh004]

I was comparing, in a world wide sense, what being a QF WP brings to my table as compared to being a DJ Gold.

I would agree that OneWorld as a whole offers more than the few partnerships that Virgin Australia has, but they speak to different markets.

 

[connieguy]

Answer me this, why should Virgin Australia give you the status up-front? I'll put a sizeable amount of money on it that Qantas didn't give you WP status up-front did they?

If you want it, you have to earn it the hard way (I.E. the same way everyone else has to)

If you read my others posts, I have said I'm not a fan of Status Matches as I expect to earn my Status just like every other FFer.

So here is the issue.

1) I have WP status with QF and enjoy all the benefits even if all I buy are mostly -Y tickets.

2) With DJ, doing what I do with QF, that is buying mainly -Y tickets, I have no benefits and will be treated like a NB, as that is what I'm in the eyes of DJ and I have no issue with that.

It will take me 25 Adl/Mel/Adl or Adl/Syd/Mel flights (20 DJ SCs per return) to my international long hauls terminals to obtain DJ Gold. I doubt I will ever do that in 12 months. I do not fly in Oz other than to catch the long haul internationals.

So why should I spend money with DJ and probably never get DJ Gold from my domestic Oz flying? I could spend A$700 for a DJ Lounge membership but why when I'm a QF WP? I was willing to spend money on doing DJ Status runs to get Gold but when DJ changed the SC rules for the 3rd time that option was dead. I was also willing to buy a PP Elite card for ~A$300 to get DJ Lounge access, but that option is also now dead.

So while you may not like the idea, if DJ want to lure QF WPs and Golds to spend their flight money with DJ, they needs to make that transition as painless as possible. If that offends exiting DJ FFers, well just remember those who are thinking about coming over to DJ have paid their dues and have earned Status with other airlines that probably required them to fly a LOT more butt in the seat miles than what DJ may require. So some respect for the other program FFers is required or DJ will never get many QF FFers moving their flight money spend to DJ.

Just understand FFers programs are designed to be Golden Handcuffs that reward and also hold FFers to that program. If DJ wants their flight spend, then DJ needs to be ready to replace the Golden Handcuff benefits at their cost. From what I have seen so far DJ does want the QF WPs and Golds spend but apparently is not willing to replace the Golden Handcuff benefits at their cost.

 

[samiam]

I do not fly in Oz other than to catch the long haul internationals.

Maybe I don't properly understand the benefits of status with the DJ programme in the above situation- why would you want DJ Gold, based upon the above?

 

[connieguy]

Maybe I don't properly understand the benefits of status with the DJ programme in the above situation- why would you want DJ Gold, based upon the above?

For the Gold benefit with MH as I was looking at using MH for my Adl/Bkk/Adl trips instead of using JQ. Yes I know MH are joining OW but that will not come into effect until end 2012. Also for the Gold benefit with Etihad for business flights to the EU where I currently use CX.

But now getting DJ Gold via some quick SC runs is off the menu unless I can get my wife to not get upset if I spend A$4k on 2 Adl/Api/Adl SC runs. She hates the cold and wet Adelaide winters and the thought of me "wasting money", her words, flying to sunny Samoa TWICE is not a good picture. You understand SWMBO? Spending A$1.8k to fly Mel/Bne/Ntl 5 times was doable and under the radar so to speak but that option died with the 3rd DJ Status rules change.

 

[jsd]

1) I have WP status with QF and enjoy all the benefits even if all I buy are mostly -Y tickets.

Right, I don't see what this has to do with DJ though

2) With DJ, doing what I do with QF, that is buying mainly -Y tickets, I have no benefits and will be treated like a NB, as that is what I'm in the eyes of DJ and I have no issue with that.

Well stay with QF then, nobody is pointing a gun to your head telling you to switch or else...

It will take me 25 Adl/Mel/Adl or Adl/Syd/Mel flights (20 DJ SCs per return) to my international long hauls terminals to obtain DJ Gold. I doubt I will ever do that in 12 months. I do not fly in Oz other than to catch the long haul internationals.

Remind me again, why do you want DJ Gold?, it won't be much use to you unless you switch your long haul flying to Virgin Atlantic/America/Australia, Etihad, AirNZ, Delta etc.

So why should I spend money with DJ and probably never get DJ Gold from my domestic Oz flying? I could spend A$700 for a DJ Lounge membership but why when I'm a QF WP? I was willing to spend money on doing DJ Status runs to get Gold but when DJ changed the SC rules for the 3rd time that option was dead. I was also willing to buy a PP Elite card for ~A$300 to get DJ Lounge access, but that option is also now dead.

18. CHANGES TO THIS AGREEMENT AND VELOCITY REWARDS

18.3 We may make changes to this Agreement from time to time. These changes may affect any features of Velocity Rewards and these terms and conditions.
18.4 We will give you 30 days written notice of any material detrimental change to this Agreement and also post details at www.velocityrewards.com.au. We may not give you any other notice of changes.

They (Velocity Rewards and Virgin Australia) are well within their rights to change the access policies to the lounge etc. based on this section of the terms and conditions alone...

So while you may not like the idea, if DJ want to lure QF WPs and Golds to spend their flight money with DJ, they needs to make that transition as painless as possible. If that offends exiting DJ FFers, well just remember those who are thinking about coming over to DJ have paid their dues and have earned Status with other airlines that probably required them to fly a LOT more butt in the seat miles than what DJ may require. So some respect for the other program FFers is required or DJ will never get many QF FFers moving their flight money spend to DJ.

Yes they may have paid their dues....TO ANOTHER AIRLINE, I don't give a flying rats how many miles they have had to fly to achieve it, and frankly Virgin probably agrees, they are a business not a charity

Just understand FFers programs are designed to be Golden Handcuffs that reward and also hold FFers to that program. If DJ wants their flight spend, then DJ needs to be ready to replace the Golden Handcuff benefits at their cost. From what I have seen so far DJ does want the QF WPs and Golds spend but apparently is not willing to replace the Golden Handcuff benefits at their cost.

That is not the way I see Virgin Australia at all, I see John Borghetti trying to create a product that makes people WANT to fly with Virgin, not because they feel obligated to...

Good Product = Happy Customers
coughpy Product = No Customers

 

[markis10]

Considering that we have yet to see most of the Velocity changes, any assessment of the merits of such a program are a tad premature, Velocity has come a long way in a short time while QFF has gone backwards for WPs, let hope the trend continues as far as Velocity is concerned while QFF start to understand they have competition.

Maybe we should organise another wake, this time in the new BNE DJ lounge to celebrate the loss of anytime access for WPs with a new alternative!

 

[connieguy]

Remind me again, why do you want DJ Gold?, it won't be much use to you unless you switch your long haul flying to Virgin Atlantic/America/Australia, Etihad, AirNZ, Delta etc.

Why are you getting angry with me?????
Did you read what I have written?
I DO NOT expect DJ to give me Gold or ANY Status. I'm currently Red.

If I decided to spend some of my flying money with DJ, I will earn my Status just like every body else did. However I suspect I'm in the minority and most of the QF WPs and Golds will expect DJ Gold to shift their business across. You may not agree but airlines do Status Matches to pinch high spending FFers flyers from competitors.

As I have stated several times, I'm looking at using VA to the states, MH to Asia and Eithad to the EU. As I buy mostly -Y tickets I need DJ Gold to get benefits from those long haul carriers such as exit row seats for my 1.9 mtr frame, a Lounge to wait for the flight and Priority check-in. I do not need extra baggage allowances as I mostly only have carry on.

I REALLY do hope DJ can come up with the goods and show the old dog that there is a new top dog on the block. I will re-evaluate the DJ offering once the QF WP1 and DJ WP offerings are on the table and stable.

Considering that we have yet to see most of the Velocity changes, any assessment of the merits of such a program are a tad premature, Velocity has come a long way in a short time while QFF has gone backwards for WPs, let hope the trend continues as far as Velocity is concerned while QFF start to understand they have competition.

Maybe we should organise another wake, this time in the new BNE DJ lounge to celebrate the loss of anytime access for WPs with a new alternative!

Sounds good but you will need to Guest me in.....

 

[jsd]

I DO NOT expect DJ to give me Gold or ANY Status. I'm currently Red.

What exactly do you want/expect then?

You say you want Gold status in order to get the same benefits afforded to you as a WP yet you are not prepared to put in the hard yards to achieve it...

 

[connieguy]

What exactly do you want/expect then?

You say you want Gold status in order to get the same benefits afforded to you as a WP yet you are not prepared to put in the hard yards to achieve it...

Again you do not read what I write:

"If you read my others posts, I have said I'm not a fan of Status Matches as I expect to earn my Status just like every other FFer."

Please slow down and READ all of what I have written. We are BOTH on the same page.

 

[drfs]

Again you do not read what I write:

"If you read my others posts, I have said I'm not a fan of Status Matches as I expect to earn my Status just like every other FFer."

Please slow down and READ all of what I have written. We are BOTH on the same page.

So it sounds like everyone agrees that, in your specific situation, right now, QF is the best option. For others, that is not the case. Can we stop going around in circles?

 

[connieguy]

So it sounds like everyone agrees that, in your specific situation, right now, QF is the best option. For others, that is not the case. Can we stop going around in circles?

I said that several replies ago. I'll have another look when the ink is dry on the DJ Platinum and QF Platinum One offerings.

I really do hope DJ comes up with a few new offers to upset the old dog on the block.

 

[thewinchester]

I said that several replies ago. I'll have another look when the ink is dry on the DJ Platinum and QF Platinum One offerings.

I really do hope DJ comes up with a few new offers to upset the old dog on the block.

I normally give the DJ threads a wide berth, mainly because they don't interest me. However reading the last few pages of posts here has hit a nerve.

To everyone responding to gowatson, <redacted> [relax].

To gowatson <redacted> You've made your point, there's no need for the continued tit-for-tat replies as they just aren't adding value. Communities will always have differences of opinion no matter how the view is expressed, and I'm sorry to say but you're starting to look quite bad.

Rant over, now heading back over to the QF side of the fence.

 

[serfty]

I can see where gowatson is coming from; [-]DJ[/-] Velocity appears to be targeting the domestic traveller rather than the international.

Currently I have Velocity Gold [brevet], AirNZ Gold Elite [Earned] .and QF WP [earned] (of course).

Most of my travel these days is international, so, it may be that ongoing [-]DJ[/-] velocity [or VA] status for me may be redundant going forward.

 

[connieguy]

Remember when DJ put this on their SC earning web page?

==========
"The table below is a guide to the Status Credit earn rate for each one-way flight* you take with Virgin Australia^, V Australia, Pacific Blue, Polynesian Blue, Virgin America, Etihad Airways or Malaysia Airlines.

[SC earn table deleted]

*A flight is a trip with a single flight number. If you have to change aircraft but your flight number doesn't change, it is considered the same flight. If your flight number changes during your journey, even if you continue on the same aircraft, it will be considered two flights."
==========

and then changed it a few days later to the SC earn per journey / ticket.


Ever wonder where those words came from? Well if so checkout this from the Qantas web site:

Frequent Flyer - About the Program - Status Credits

==========
"Status credits earned per one-way flight^

[SC earn table deleted]

^A flight is a trip with a single flight number. If you have to change aircraft but the flight number doesn't change, it is considered the same flight. If the flight number changes during your journey, even if you continue on the same aircraft, this is considered two flights."

I mean please DJ people, you could have changed more than "the flight number" to "your flight number".

Anyway QF does award SCs per flight number, as above, while DJ now awards SCs per journey / ticket. For me, that is a major negative difference. Lets hope DJ sees the light of day and adopts a more industry standard approach to awarding SCs for flights flown and not for journeys traveled.

 

[antycbr]

Lets hope DJ sees the light of day and adopts a more industry standard approach to awarding SCs for flights flown and not for journeys traveled.

DJ could also increase the number of SC required from 400 to oh, maybe, just picking a number here, 600 SCs for retaining Gold and adopt some more industry standards as well. I think the two cancel each other out - you have a lower barrier to jump (400) but lower ability to earn (per journey).

I'm interested in what the SC earn tables will look like when DL/NZ/SQ are loaded in - hopefully they're the same and not like VS.

It'll also be interesting to see how VA handle their renaming and SC earn - at the moment SC's are earnt per journey on domestic/Pacific Blue and Polynesian Blue. When these and V Australia lose their separate identities the definition will need to be amended to specify which flights earn on a Journey basis and which don't. Let alone codeshares and mixed carrier bookings.

 

[connieguy]

..you have a lower barrier to jump (400) but lower ability to earn (per journey)...

Fair enough. Just remember to factor into all this that with QF you can turn QF points into QF SCs and more QF points via QF's Any Seat Any Time program. As an example you can earn 280 QF SCs and 12,236 QF points by spending 69,450 QF points (effective 57,214 QF points or ~204 QF points / QF SC) on a Business return Drw/Bne/Tvl. With DJ their is no way that I know of to buy reward flights with DJ points and then to earn DJ SCs and more DJ Points on the reward flight. Also the QF points and SC earnings are per flights.

I mean someone earning 245k QF points per year, through say a business spend of $100K on the QF AMEX Ultimate card (2.5 points / $1 spend with QF) could earn QF Platinum just from the points.

I trust DJ rolls out something like this with their new rewards program and Platinum tier as otherwise QF has the business traveler who understands the QF JASA rewards system firmly on their side of the FFer fence.

 

[antycbr]

Fair enough. Just remember to factor into all this that with QF you can turn QF points into QF SCs and more QF points via QF's Any Seat Any Time program. As an example you can earn 280 QF SCs and 12,236 QF points by spending 69,450 QF points (effective 57,214 QF points or ~204 QF points / QF SC) on a Business return Drw/Bne/Tvl. With DJ their is no way that I know of to buy reward flights with DJ points and then to earn DJ SCs and more DJ Points on the reward flight. Also the QF points and SC earnings are per flights.

I mean someone earning 245k QF points per year, through say a business spend of $100K on the QF AMEX Ultimate card (2.5 points / $1 spend with QF) could earn QF Platinum just from the points.

I trust DJ rolls out something like this with their new rewards program and Platinum tier as otherwise QF has the business traveler who understands the QF JASA rewards system firmly on their side of the FFer fence.

I agree that VA AnySeat awards should earn points/SC - particularly as they can have a significant cash component. Reward flights should not earn points or status (consistent with QF). I wonder how many people who don't participate in these boards book JASAs other than when they actually need to travel a particular route?

 

[connieguy]

I agree that VA AnySeat awards should earn points/SC - particularly as they can have a significant cash component. Reward flights should not earn points or status (consistent with QF). I wonder how many people who don't participate in these boards book JASAs other than when they actually need to travel a particular route?

I suggest a lot more now that AUsBT are running their FFer Points series:

Get the Points news 2011 - Business travel | airlines | hotels | lounges | frequent flyer - Australian Business Traveller

BTW I'm just getting into JASAs. Great stuff from QF. I do trust DJ offers their version as the new Velocity AMEX Platinum with the 3 points per $ spend will put a lot of points into DJ FFers accounts.

Exciting times as the new and old dog circle each other, making eye to eye contact, snarling and pawing at the ground........

 

[xtoss]

I've probably missed it in this big thread as I know there was some confusion in the beginning.

Are the new SC brought in for all flights after June 6 or all flights booked after June 6?

I only ask because I thought it was booked but my flight last week that was booked before June 6 was done at the new rates (not complaining just curious as I have a couple more flights of varying distance coming up)

 

[markis10]

I've probably missed it in this big thread as I know there was some confusion in the beginning.

Are the new SC brought in for all flights after June 6 or all flights booked after June 6?

I only ask because I thought it was booked but my flight last week that was booked before June 6 was done at the new rates (not complaining just curious as I have a couple more flights of varying distance coming up)

When they are flown is the critical thing I believe.