Virgin 787s?

[Lucass]

Will virgin australia dry-lease some 787s from qatar eventually? They could get some of their ageing 787-8s and use them for los angeles/asia flights. They could also use them on mel/syd/bne to perth flights to better compete with Qantas.

 

[p--and--t]

Nothing more than wishful thinking.

 

[Lucass]

those “domestic” a330s nowadays are quite often found flying internationally. plus we don’t know if Qantas would designate them “domestic” - we only know they will retire a330 and replace with 787, but didn’t say they would be domestic. I’d say premium lie-flat domestic products are on their way out.

And you know that how? All indication says they are really concerned about the viability of long haul international flying.

They use the a330s on most flights between MEL and PER as well as several per day on SYD to PER. The CEO and various execs at virgin have stated they are eying a return to having international flying

 

[justinbrett]

Ok, why don’t you tell me a plan for VA that could be successful for them internationally, let me hear your thoughts

Who said VA can become a successful international airline? I think that's the very point @TheInsider is arguing against!

Even Ansett was barely considered an international airline.

They've deemed Trans Tasman (other than ZQN) not viable. That says it all. You can't be a serious Australian based international airline and not fly TT to the major NZ cities.

 

[TheInsider]

Ok, why don’t you tell me a plan for VA that could be successful for them internationally, let me hear your thoughts

B737 international flights. That's it. They can barely even do that right.

The fact that QR have to go through a back door to get extra flights to DOH shows they really don't care about VAs international operation or future aspirations. QR care about QR and that's it. Like Bain only care about selling VA for a profit when/if the time comes.

 

[elanshin]

Ok, why don’t you tell me a plan for VA that could be successful for them internationally, let me hear your thoughts

Bain (current main shareholder of VA) has 0 care about the long term Outlook of VA. They are a private equity firm and care about building a profitable stable business so they can exit their position with a tidy profit.

As such their goals completely misalign with your thoughts of trying to expand VA into an international widebody airline. As long as VA is under Bain, there will be no possibility of them taking on unnecessary risk. For better or worse this is how PE firms operate.

Will there come a time in the future where VA3.0 under a different owner looks to expand internationally with widebodies? No doubt. But that is not a future that is anytime soon nor do we we even know who will be in charge at that point.

Final point, you have this conception that QF group would just roll over and let VA take any market share. Sadly with both JQ and QF cornering both ends of the market there is very little niche for VA to seriously threaten a route without QF taking very firm reactions. (Might be good for the flying public for a while like Rex's impact on capital city prices). But it then becomes a game of who runs out of money first.

 

[Lucass]

B737 international flights. That's it. They can barely even do that right.

The fact that QR have to go through a back door to get extra flights to DOH shows they really don't care about VAs international operation or future aspirations. QR care about QR and that's it. Like Bain only care about selling VA for a profit when/if the time comes.

Fair enough, I suppose they can still reach many Asian destinations with their 737 max 8s

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

They use the a330s on most flights between MEL and PER as well as several per day on SYD to PER. The CEO and various execs at virgin have stated they are eying a return to having international flying

Used to.
Not now.
All the 330s are now gone.
===
They are happy to put the A320s on to RPT, think about an all Y squashed tin can, without an option to buy a J tix on those ADL - PER and some other sector flights.
Only good thing about those A320s, is you can phone VA bookings up and get an empty seat next to you, have to phone up and buy that seat.
Lean and mean... mid range, hah.

 

[AIRwin]

Used to.
Not now.
All the 330s are now gone.

I think the A330s was referring to QF

 

[justinbrett]

Fair enough, I suppose they can still reach many Asian destinations with their 737 max 8s

Like HND? How did that go?

 

[TheInsider]

Fair enough, I suppose they can still reach many Asian destinations with their 737 max 8s

Where?

 

[Harrison_133]

Fair enough, I suppose they can still reach many Asian destinations with their 737 max 8s

Which they've shown no real interest in actually doing...

They are happy to put the A320s on to RPT, think about an all Y squashed tin can, without an option to buy a J tix on those ADL - PER and some other sector flights.

They have drastically reduced the A320s on ADL - PER though. Looking at next week, all flights are on the 737.

 

[Simon Overall]

Where?

Bali will be the only one.

 

[twinaisle]

Lucasssss - you sound like an amateur who's new to aviation and have aspiring arm chair ceo thoughts and ideas. You've repeated things that others have wished for so it's not new at all.

Most of your "wishes" won't happen. No one's launching any flights into BNE unless it's with the backing of the QLD government flying grants which is pretty much on offer to get airlines to fly into QLD.

VA barely have spare 737 aircraft to fly domestic routes at the moment let alone launch new international routes. Sure they maybe getting more max8 and 2 ex silk air but they're pretty much there to replace old frames which are set to leave as well as take back alliance flying.

 

[Lucass]

Where?

A 737 max 8 can fly between Cairns, Darwin, Townsville & Perth to Hong Kong & Singapore as well as Thailand/Malaysia/vietnam from Perth. Melbourne/Sydney to Jakarta. It can reach many Asian cities buddy

 

[p--and--t]

VA made its first profit for 11 years in 2023 after consolidating and removing services and aircraft not central to its current charter.

It's owners are very pragmatic PE looking to make the books shine ready to sell it off and are not likely going off on another whimsy indulged in by previous managements.

 

[Lucass]

Lucasssss - you sound like an amateur who's new to aviation and have aspiring arm chair ceo thoughts and ideas. You've repeated things that others have wished for so it's not new at all.

Most of your "wishes" won't happen. No one's launching any flights into BNE unless it's with the backing of the QLD government flying grants which is pretty much on offer to get airlines to fly into QLD.

VA barely have spare 737 aircraft to fly domestic routes at the moment let alone launch new international routes. Sure they maybe getting more max8 and 2 ex silk air but they're pretty much there to replace old frames which are set to leave as well as take back alliance flying.

Respectfully please don’t disrespect me

 

[Lucass]

Respectfully please don’t disrespect me

Also they have not retired any of their older frames, so you are completely wrong there. All new silk-air 737s and Max’s have been used for network growth. Doubt we will see any older frames retired until the max 10s arrive, probably 2026-2027

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 10:01 PM

Like HND? How did that go?

Not good, but it doesn’t mean there aren’t other possibilities that could work in the future

 

[Lucass]

Used to.
Not now.
All the 330s are now gone.
===
They are happy to put the A320s on to RPT, think about an all Y squashed tin can, without an option to buy a J tix on those ADL - PER and some other sector flights.
Only good thing about those A320s, is you can phone VA bookings up and get an empty seat next to you, have to phone up and buy that seat.
Lean and mean... mid range, hah.

I was referring to Qantas’s a330s. I was discussing with someone how Qantas have a wide body offering on Perth routes, unlike virgin. I’m aware they got rid of their a330 fleet

 

[Harrison_133]

A 737 max 8 can fly between Cairns, Darwin, Townsville & Perth to Hong Kong & Singapore as well as Thailand/Malaysia/vietnam from Perth. Melbourne/Sydney to Jakarta. It can reach many Asian cities buddy

1) The MAX might be capable of flying from those destinations, but is there actually a market there? If they can't make Cairns-Tokyo work, I'd argue the routes you propose would similarly be unviable.

2) Perth-Malaysia is very well covered by the Malaysian carriers already. Jetstar have swooped into the Perth-Thailand market. Perth-Vietnam non-stop is a developing market but already covered by both Vietnam Airlines and VietJet. It would be a bloodbath if VA entered any of these markets.

3) There is no spare capacity under the bilateral agreement with Indonesia to fly to Jakarta. They'd have to cut flights to Bali which just isn't going to happen when they need more capacity to Bali, not less.

 

[AIRwin]

Doubt we will see any older frames retired until the max 10s arrive, probably 2026-2027

There was a recent post about some aircraft leaving:

H

Post in thread 'Virgin Australia to Reconfigure 737 Fleet - Spend $110M'

Friday at 10:47 PM

VUI and VUJ reported on another forum as leaving the VA fleet this year (as both never got the Y-heavy cabin reconfigurations), followed by VUO. The 2 ex-Singapore/SilkAir (IJR and IXK) at this stage is reported to arrive at the end of February and early March respectively.

All subject to change of course.

• HS-TQE

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