Virgin Business Class Lottery - Pay for Business, get Premium Economy! Now 0 for 2.

[MichaelD]

Re: Virgin Business Class Lottery - now 0 for 2. Pay for Business, get Premium Econom

markis10, 'tis an even more deliberately misleading comparison than I first thought. Shame on you.

This direct BNE-DRW flight is listed as being operated by a 767 (versus the DJ 737-800) at $200 more.

Which J would you pick? 767 J on Qantas or 737-800 J on Virgin?

 

[markis10]

Re: Virgin Business Class Lottery - now 0 for 2. Pay for Business, get Premium Econom

markis10, 'tis an even more deliberately misleading comparison than I first thought. Shame on you.

This direct BNE-DRW flight is listed as being operated by a 767 (versus the DJ 737-800) at $200 more.

Which J would you pick? 767 J on Qantas or 737-800 J on Virgin?

Hardly misleading, I already pointed out the semi J flights were the same cost as the direct flight which is the only one on offer for the day and sucks when it comes to business as far as timing goes (the comparison being for same timing flights ie Afternoon). I put my money where my mouth is and often get the DJ flight, its better timing and cheaper, needless to say when I head up via CNS I dont waste my money on J!

I get the feeling you have not done J in a 734 recently, they make the PE seats in DJ look comfy!

 

[MichaelD]

Re: Virgin Business Class Lottery - now 0 for 2. Pay for Business, get Premium Econom

because I have been informed!

Yes.

BEFORE you pay for this fare you KNOW you are not getting the experience you may wish for. You can then CHOOSE not to buy it. You do not discover this problem only AFTER you board these flights.

We only discovered our DJ problem AFTER we boarded both times despite extensive efforts on our part to inform ourselves BEFORE we boarded.

Big difference, all to do with missed expectations.


ps. I personally see this sort of Qantas pricing all the time when booking QantasLink connections where there is no J. I just book them as multi-city bookings in different classes so I get what I pay for (capital city J, regional Y), but I'm sure you know that and just cherry picked this example.

 

[markis10]

Re: Virgin Business Class Lottery - now 0 for 2. Pay for Business, get Premium Econom

Yes.

BEFORE you pay for this fare you KNOW you are not getting the experience you may wish for. You can then CHOOSE not to buy it. You do not discover this problem only AFTER you board these flights.

We only discovered our DJ problem AFTER we boarded both times despite extensive efforts on our part to inform ourselves BEFORE we boarded.

Big difference, all to do with missed expectations..

I have to disagree, its no different to a 734 sub with QF, which as I stated happens a me a bit as a FNQ traveller, three BNE-TSV flights yesterday were changed to 734s from 738s at short notice!

 

[MichaelD]

Re: Virgin Business Class Lottery - now 0 for 2. Pay for Business, get Premium Econom

I have to disagree, its no different to a 734 sub with QF, which as I stated happens a me a bit as a FNQ traveller, three BNE-TSV flights yesterday were changed to 734s from 738s at short notice!

I have not had the displeasure of such a change since my flying is mostly more southerly, although I am looking at doing a lot more FNQ flights this year.

A quick search for this did not turn up any recent threads to study and learn from - any useful links?

How is this change managed by Qantas if you are booked in J?

 

[mickeyc747]

Re: Virgin Business Class Lottery - now 0 for 2. Pay for Business, get Premium Econom

markis10, 'tis an even more deliberately misleading comparison than I first thought. Shame on you.

This direct BNE-DRW flight is listed as being operated by a 767 (versus the DJ 737-800) at $200 more.

Which J would you pick? 767 J on Qantas or 737-800 J on Virgin?

I dont think Markis is misleading.

The fare quoted for Qantas was around $2700 with only J on BNE TSV ok and you fare quoted was around $1200.

If you fly DJ you get a 737 800 at $999 failing that you get a 737 700 and the cost is only $499.50 I know I would rather a 700 at $499.50 than a 734 Q400 and 717 for $2700 or a 767 that will be divertided to Mt Isa as there is something wrong with it for $1200 and get off loaded by a fork lift.

We need to lighten up and look at the following clip.

Pam Ann as Gloria Qantas - Spirit of Australia - YouTube

Gloria will explain it all (aka Pam Ann)

 

[haydensydney]

Re: Virgin Business Class Lottery - now 0 for 2. Pay for Business, get Premium Econom

Dear MichaelD

When you go to McDonalds/Burger King/KFC and you ask for a Hamburger, if it comes out with everything that meets expectations but the piece of CHEESE is smaller than usual, would you go to the ACCC crying "Misleading and Deceptive Conduct?"... I wouldn't think so.

REMEMBER That we are actually quite lucky that Virgin has bought a Business product to the Australian market, if they didn't then we would be left with QF and no competition. I think we all need to accept that Virgin is in a period of transformation, and occasionally - YOU will be the unlucky one. Throwing the toys out of the cot and packing a sad will only go so far: the best bet is to try and obtain some form of compensation and leave it at that.

 

[MichaelD]

Re: Virgin Business Class Lottery - now 0 for 2. Pay for Business, get Premium Econom

734 Q400

Hmmm - does this mean when a "734 substitution" is spoken of what it refers to is a substitution of a 737 type aircraft by a Q400 type aircraft?

 

[mickeyc747]

Re: Virgin Business Class Lottery - now 0 for 2. Pay for Business, get Premium Econom

Hmmm - does this mean when a "734 substitution" is spoken of what it refers to is a substitution of a 737 type aircraft for a Q400 type aircraft?

No it was refering to the aircraft you would get on the sector:

BNE TSV 734 or 738

TSV CNS Q400 or DH 8 300

CNS DRW 717

I did state that BNE TSV was the only J sector as the rest of the aircraft listed dont have J cabins.

But you can do a trip from BNE TSV in a Q 400 long trip but it is in the time table.

 

[MichaelD]

Re: Virgin Business Class Lottery - now 0 for 2. Pay for Business, get Premium Econom

Dear MichaelD

When you go to McDonalds/Burger King/KFC and you ask for a Hamburger, if it comes out with everything that meets expectations but the piece of CHEESE is smaller than usual, would you go to the ACCC crying "Misleading and Deceptive Conduct?"... I wouldn't think so.

REMEMBER That we are actually quite lucky that Virgin has bought a Business product to the Australian market, if they didn't then we would be left with QF and no competition. I think we all need to accept that Virgin is in a period of transformation, and occasionally - YOU will be the unlucky one. Throwing the toys out of the cot and packing a sad will only go so far: the best bet is to try and obtain some form of compensation and leave it at that.

Dear HaydenSydney,

If I go to McDonalds and ask for a cheeseburger and get one which is a cheeseburger in every way except it has a chicken patty in it what should I do?

1. Complain
2. Ask for compensation
3. Next time I go to McDonald's, ask in advance if the cheeseburger has beef in it, specifying that I don't want one if it has chicken in it.

What should I then do if McDonald's assures me 3 times that this next cheeseburger does indeed have beef in it, but when I unwrap it after I have paid for it I find chicken?



I now accept that the black J seat does not exist across the entire Virgin J fleet at this time. This was a surprise to me.

I don't accept that when I asked about this specifically at check-in that it is reasonable that I could be misinformed about this, thus denying me the ability to change my flight (which is exactly what we would have done - there was a 737-800 scheduled 2 hours later which would have been just fine by us).

I have no interest in involving the ACCC - that was mentioned by other posters. It's an ambit response along the same lines as "you'll be hearing from my lawyer" - a hollow threat.

I have now had contact with Virgin at a deeper level than simply their online form and look forward to progressing our dialogue.

I know also realise for the time being that booking J with Virgin involves a significant gamble as to aircraft configuration. When this gamble is unacceptable to me, I will book with Qantas where the routes I fly have consistent product delivery. Where the Virgin gamble is acceptable, I will book Virgin for the double status credits and points available and either suck it up in a PE seat or accept delays until I can board a proper J aircraft.

The point is - my expectations have now been set lower for the Virgin J product for the time being as I am now much better informed about it.

The moot point is whether these lowered expectations should be necessary.

 

[Justchecking]

Re: Virgin Business Class Lottery - now 0 for 2. Pay for Business, get Premium Econom

If I go to McDonalds and ask for a cheeseburger and get one which is a cheeseburger in every way except it has a chicken patty in it what should I do?

What should I then do if McDonald's assures me 3 times that this next cheeseburger does indeed have beef in it, but when I unwrap it after I have paid for it I find chicken?

So....you've visited Macca's at Sydney airport too....

 

[jaspon]

Re: Virgin Business Class Lottery - now 0 for 2. Pay for Business, get Premium Econom

just a quick comment - there are around 44 737-800's with the J Class seats.
So its possibly unlucky to NOT get a J seat if booked.

I am sure it would be a last minute a/c swap due to weather/maintenance/ engineering etc and NOT an intentional decision by Virgin to replace the a/c on J routes.
Am told that the GCC endeavors to contact the guest prior to flight to advise.

Certainly compensation such as a credit shell for the J flight, should be an absolute given

 

[serfty]

I have to disagree, its no different to a 734 sub with QF, which as I stated happens a me a bit as a FNQ traveller, three BNE-TSV flights yesterday were changed to 734s from 738s at short notice!

The Convertible 734 seats in 2x2 mode are far more comfortable then the DJ PE seats. (In fact, even in 3x3 mode)

In fact they are far more comfortable than the horrid Qantas seats in business in the new 738's and 332's. (Never though I'd wish for "Millennium")

 

[markis10]

Re: Virgin Business Class Lottery - now 0 for 2. Pay for Business, get Premium Econom

The Convertible 734 seats in 2x2 mode are far more comfortable then the DJ PE seats. (In fact, even in 3x3 mode)

In fact they are far more comfortable than the horrid Qantas seats in business in the new 738's and 332's. (Never though I'd wish for "Millennium")

Having had both in the last few weeks I would have to disagree, then again its personal preference, perhap related to BYO padding and flight time, my most recent sample was a 734 BNE TSV versus PE in a 738 BNE-DRW.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Re: Virgin Business Class Lottery - now 0 for 2. Pay for Business, get Premium Econom

A blocked middle seat is [-]more room[/-] extra space. Go look at the website it does not offer a particular type of seat it offers [-]more room[/-] extra space and comfort. VA does not fail to deliver, they provide what they have listed on the website.

Uhmmm, who was talking about semantics?

We all know what DJ refer to as J.

The old PE is NOT it.

After all the bun-fight over the PE rogues, one could be forgiven for assuming DJ would have learnt their lesson.........apparently not. I was annoyed about copping a rogue PE (twice). I'd be livid about copping a rogue "J" after paying what can only be described as a hefty sum of cash for the privilege. DJ need to stop the rot and deliver what they advertise. I'm wondering how many would be happy to watch a 23" CRT TV when they bought a 100" LED, without wanting at least some monentry compensation?

Suggesting that others in Europe or even QF do the same, is no sane excuse........what's that old saying? Two wrongs, do not make a right? Try explaining otherwise to all those expensive SMed brethren, who are deciding who to direct their "J" budget to!

 

[straitman]

Re: Virgin Business Class Lottery - now 0 for 2. Pay for Business, get Premium Econom

Suggesting that others in Europe or even QF do the same, is no sane excuse........

.... and is irrelevant IMHO :!:

 

[EuroKick]

Re: Virgin Business Class Lottery - now 0 for 2. Pay for Business, get Premium Econom

Just to add fuel to the fire, I travelled business, but aircraft changed to PE seating. No business class seating, no buisness class food/service. I can certainly see where people are coming from. You pay an extra amount, but get PE product... Would be different if I got a PE seat, but business catering.. Then I wouldn't mind so much.

 

[Reggie]

Re: Virgin Business Class Lottery - now 0 for 2. Pay for Business, get Premium Econom

Flying J PER-BNE on Monday, am expecting PE instead of J seating. As long as I have J service, if its PE seating I will not be upset, if it is J seating I will extra happy.

 

[MichaelD]

Re: Virgin Business Class Lottery - now 0 for 2. Pay for Business, get Premium Econom

Just to add one extra point here before I personally stop flogging what is almost a dead horse;

Virgin themselves seem to realize that there is a problem since they are supposed to offer 50% off the price or another flight if there is PE seating in J.

This in practice doesn't quite seem to be working out (which is another issue), but it does indicate they realize themselves that offering PE seating to J customers will lead to upset customers.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Re: Virgin Business Class Lottery - now 0 for 2. Pay for Business, get Premium Econom

Flying J PER-BNE on Monday, am expecting PE instead of J seating. As long as I have J service, if its PE seating I will not be upset, if it is J seating I will extra happy.

I congratulate you on your understanding. I find it bizarre that you buy a J product and expect PE, but each to their own. To me, the seating is the most important aspect of J. Out of curiosity if, like other have reported, the catering is stuffed up and no J meals and PE seating, would you also "not be upset", or do you think you'd be feeling a little deflated over the whole "J" experience?


Anyway, as I'm not a regular J flyer, I'll bow out of this conversation and leave the debate to those directly affected by it. I think it was the OP (or someone else affected) that stated the rumoured 50% refund of fare for rogue J aircraft would not be acceptable because they want the J product, not the cash. Seems to me that those are just the type of flyers DJ wants to lure in. The ones who only fly J and are happy to pay the premium for J but they do expect to actually get the product they purchased. Food for thought....a first impression only happens once.


EDIT: MichaelDs post came just before mine...posted whilst I was typing, but is actually very similar sentiments. I'll leave mine stand, but I wasn't just parroting his thoughts intentionally!