Virgin "enhances" redemptions, changes to points + pay

[oz_mark]

The minimum points required has always been a mystery, never published.

Actually, the Reward Seat redemption pricing table specifiies the minimum points

The Point prices below are the minimum Points required for Virgin Australia redemptions or the base fare for international partner redemptions.

Points Tables | Velocity Frequent Flyer

I don't think the points have changed - just the ability to wind the scroller backwards below the specified minimums.

 

[serfty]

Thanks for that - I note "Fares are correct as at 13th of December 2011 and are subject to change.".

So maybe this has been around only since then or it was updated then.

Were not the origin Velocity Reward redemptions based on class availability rather than zones?

 

[anat0l]

Were not the original Velocity Reward redemptions based on class availability rather than zones?

It's all of the above IME. And still is.

The original redemptions were based on "zones", they just were never published. But if you compared a number of comparable redemptions using the Points Calculator, they had similar prices, which you could start to mentally cluster into "zones".

The new and old system are always based on class availability; for example, I booked 2 BNE-SYD tix for my folks yesterday to depart in early May. On that day in Economy Reward Seats, some seats were 6900+$31 (all points cost ~7100), and some had a higher cash component (all points ~9800). I suppose once the buckets under "Reward Seats" have been exhausted, Any Seat pricing will apply, which is basically the same except with usually higher cash component.





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[jakeseven7]

Thanks for dropping in!
At the very least some notice would have been appreciated by them.

So a big FAIL. Looking forward to see if there is a nice DJ way you can recover some of the lost faith!

This seems to be the sentiment. Why no notice? Why just try and sneak it in under the radar??

Do you not class the booking engine on the Velocity site as "published"? I was never in any doubt of the minimum points required every time I looked as it was "published" right before my very eyes.

Agreed plus on the tables in a manner of way.

 

[Coathanger]

Re: Very cheap business class points + pay redemptions

So I know I said it before, but on 30 Jun the old rates are there for that one day only...if you want a cheap J redemption booking just for the sake of flying I'd get in quick!

Given that J awards are fully flexible does this mean we could book for 30 Jun and move it to a more suitable date?

 

[Water]

Re: Very cheap business class points + pay redemptions

I am wobdering the same given J Fares are fully flexible I would assusme there is no reason if booked for travel on the 30th June that these could not be changed at no coct to other dates. Can anyone confirm?

 

[Moopere]

Do you not class the booking engine on the Velocity site as "published"? I was never in any doubt of the minimum points required every time I looked as it was "published" right before my very eyes.

I'm pretty sure that product pricing is separated from management of the scheme and the management of the scheme is what the T&C is all about. If they'd put hard numbers into the T&C, like fees, then ye,s I agree, notice required.

I still think its bad form to double or triple your pricing overnight during a points promo though.

 

[Moopere]

Re: Very cheap business class points + pay redemptions

Given that J awards are fully flexible does this mean we could book for 30 Jun and move it to a more suitable date?

Yes, you could, but one has to pay fare difference. So if its cheaper when you book, and more expensive when you actually want to fly you'll pay the difference. No real saving there.

 

[oz_mark]

Re: Very cheap business class points + pay redemptions

Yes, you could, but one has to pay fare difference. So if its cheaper when you book, and more expensive when you actually want to fly you'll pay the difference. No real saving there.

But is there any real fare difference? The fares look the same to me, just without the ability to convert as many points to a rather nice dollar amount.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I still think its bad form to double or triple your pricing overnight during a points promo though.

Seems pretty simple to me. All DJ has to do is revert to the old system for a month and they save face and show us they are "our good friends". I certainly wouldn't throw a price rise like that at my clients....let alone my "friends".

 

[Moopere]

Re: Very cheap business class points + pay redemptions

But is there any real fare difference? The fares look the same to me, just without the ability to convert as many points to a rather nice dollar amount.

On some routes perhaps there isn't much difference ... but then that begs the question ... why bother to book now?

On my often travelled route there is a real difference. Without working the system via upgrades, its about double the previous redemption cost. I'm not sure if a change in date would have DJ ask for more money or more points, or both. More money probably, though this might then give away their own internal points valuation.

 

[drewbles]

Re: Very cheap business class points + pay redemptions

Having taken some 4 P+P rewards at the old rate, it's sad to see these rates go.

but...

Is anyone surprised? Do the math from Virgin's standpoint. There's no way that 13800 points and $350 was going to make them cash in their J cabins.

Seeing as I typically average 3-4 return flights to PER a year from the east coast, I'll start using my Plat upgrades (there's 2 returns) and pay a little more and use a P+P non award, and reap 160 SC's for each return as well for a few hundred more.

Thanks for the cheap ride whilst it lasted Virgin (I'm off to PER airport for the last of my cheap ones in a few hours, so it'll be a sweet flight home).

On a side note, has anyone actually noticed how empty their J cabins are? I've been the only guest in J on a few occasions and on the SYD-PER flight on Friday night, there were around 7 people in J and couldn't have been more than 50 or so in Y, and I'm willing to put money on QF's service at that time being oversold...

 

[Moopere]

Re: Very cheap business class points + pay redemptions

Seeing as I typically average 3-4 return flights to PER a year from the east coast, I'll start using my Plat upgrades (there's 2 returns) and pay a little more and use a P+P non award, and reap 160 SC's for each return as well for a few hundred more.

How do you get P+P non award? Whenever I click on that option at Virgin I get redirected to Velocity for what is essentially a reward or ASA style ticket. The ASA tickets, PER-MEL or MEL-PER are a _lot_ more expensive, not just a little more. ASA's don't earn do they? I don't think so, not FF or SC.

On a side note, has anyone actually noticed how empty their J cabins are? I've been the only guest in J on a few occasions and on the SYD-PER flight on Friday night, there were around 7 people in J and couldn't have been more than 50 or so in Y, and I'm willing to put money on QF's service at that time being oversold...

Yep. Even when the old pricing was up I'd usually be the only one in J. Occasionally there would be another Pax there, and very very occasionally they would be 4 or more on a 737. On the A330 I found the cabins generally 50% full.

Theres the hint that the product is overpriced. Plenty of folks with plenty of money to spend, but no-one likes to be ripped and if the value is not there then punters won't spend their cash. I'll do Flexi upgrades and the price point is acceptable. $2600 full revenue PER-MEL return is not realistic IMHO, the DJ product is a fine upgrade from their Y offering, but its 4-6x the price.

I still reckon they don't intend and never intended to sell all J as revenue, I reckon they are using the cabin to burn VFF points and keep their FF liabilities under control. This change will do that. Its become a lot more expensive, points wise, to travel in the premium cabins. Overall, if you convert points to money at fairly low rates (which most AFF folks would be loathe to do), the pricing is probably similar to what it was.

 

[markis10]

Do you not class the booking engine on the Velocity site as "published"? I was never in any doubt of the minimum points required every time I looked as it was "published" right before my very eyes.

Absolutely not, if you had less than the minimum points it just told you that but did not tell you what the minimum actually was, there have been quite a few threads here for people asking what it was in different scenarios so they could work out how many points to transfer.

 

[markis10]

Actually, the Reward Seat redemption pricing table specifiies the minimum points



Points Tables | Velocity Frequent Flyer

I don't think the points have changed - just the ability to wind the scroller backwards below the specified minimums.

That table shows the minimums in place now and was only published in December, until the events of the last week, you ha to have at least 6900 points to get to the slider page for domestic.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Re: Very cheap business class points + pay redemptions

But is there any real fare difference? The fares look the same to me, just without the ability to convert as many points to a rather nice dollar amount.

Hi Mark, for it's it really is not relevant as to whether the difference is just in the slider or not, but the outcome is that I can't now book 4 rtn fares BNE-BME with the BNE-PER legs in J, which I could before. I don't have enough points.....not by a long shot. Now my only option is to try the flexi and upgrade. Now admittedly, there are benefits there, but it will cost me $1700 more......bottom line.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Absolutely not, if you had less than the minimum points it just told you that but did not tell you what the minimum actually was,.

Fair comment.

 

[pauly7]

Seems pretty simple to me. All DJ has to do is revert to the old system for a month and they save face and show us they are "our good friends". I certainly wouldn't throw a price rise like that at my clients....let alone my "friends".

Agreed they should do something like this to allow people time to book / burn and adapt.... Or allow people to transfer points back out of Velocity (hell freezes over!!).

I'm sure they are following this thread and something will be offered... Hopefully

 

[Moopere]

Or allow people to transfer points back out of Velocity

This would be the right thing to do. Transfers were made in good faith and the faith was broken. Despite any number of disclaimers and T&C I sure hope the ACCC is having a bit of a look.

 

[oz_mark]

Hi Mark, for it's it really is not relevant as to whether the difference is just in the slider or not, but the outcome is that I can't now book 4 rtn fares BNE-BME with the BNE-PER legs in J, which I could before. I don't have enough points.....not by a long shot. Now my only option is to try the flexi and upgrade. Now admittedly, there are benefits there, but it will cost me $1700 more......bottom line.

Well, I was planning something for my parents as well. Need a rethink on that one.

This would be the right thing to do. Transfers were made in good faith and the faith was broken. Despite any number of disclaimers and T&C I sure hope the ACCC is having a bit of a look.

It would depend on whether anyone had brought it to their attention.