Virgin getting very HEAVY re completed credit card refunds. Sad to see.

[hydrabyss]

I wish we had the US Department in Australia.

https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/2020-04/Enforcement%20Notice%20Final%20April%203%202020.pdf

Isn't the US also giving the airlines money which would combat this.

See what Canada is doing.

 

[travel_bug]

.

“your Bank dispute raised date must be withdrawn and should it progress to a Chargeback (bank finding in your favour) then we will be in touch to organise collection of the funds owing.” (Verbatim and unedited Chinglish (?) posted here.)

Hi OP,
I was just wondering if there’s been any update from that email received from VA, or any changes made to your velocity account since the successful chargeback?

I’ve recently lodged my own and want to make sure I’m prepared for any emails like yours or other action should mine be successful.

 

[CaptJCool]

Hi OP,
I was just wondering if there’s been any update from that email received from VA, or any changes made to your velocity account since the successful chargeback?

I’ve recently lodged my own and want to make sure I’m prepared for any emails like yours or other action should mine be successful.

Now VA is in VA I doubt your bank will have any success on securing a chargeback refund...

 

[travel_bug]

Now VA is in VA I doubt your bank will have any success on securing a chargeback refund...

Visa Global’s chargeback Covid terms and conditions cover chargebacks even from bankrupt merchants given you were entitled to a changeback initially (for example airline merchant cancelled your flight and as such could not provide purchased service).

https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/global/support-legal/documents/managing-disputes-through-covid-19.pdf

Also, as mentioned by the OP earlier in this thread, many cardholders were saved by chargebacks in the Ansett collapse and not all card issuers treat their card holders the same way. That’s why I’m only asking the OP on an update on any VA correspondence or if they’ve threatened their velocity status, not on the prospects of success on my chargeback.

 

[Matt_01]

It has been about 3 weeks since the OP and the landscape has changed. As I understand chargeback refunds are subject to visa/ MasterCard by laws and not the ability for the banks to secure a refund from VA. I have a few chargebacks at present and I do not actually care about status with VA, I posted in some thread having status with VA is next to unless in an airline that may not exist.

 

[bulldog88]

I think it's VA's bank (whichever bank provides their Visa/MC facility) that ends up taking the loss = being an unsecured VA creditor.

So assuming your bank isn't also VA's bank, your bank shouldn't be too reluctant to refund.

In any case your bank can always refund you on goodwill/compassionate grounds, irrespective of whether they get reimbursed through the official chargeback channels.

 

[Pushka]

I think it's VA's bank (whichever bank provides their Visa/MC facility) that ends up taking the loss = being an unsecured VA creditor.

So assuming your bank isn't also VA's bank, your bank shouldn't be too reluctant to refund.

In any case your bank can always refund you on goodwill/compassionate grounds, irrespective of whether they get reimbursed through the official chargeback channels.

Yes. When FlyBe or whatever that one is called in Australia that went bust in February, it was their Bank - CBA - that credit cards sought restitution from.

 

[theblank]

Technically the OP's reason for claiming a chargeback is invalid. Virgin has every right to deny the chargeback according to their T&C despite how unfair holding a travel bank credit seems to be.

Some people overlook a simple fact that the Bank/Credit card company doesnt act as an adjudicator. If the cardholder insists on chargebacks for flippant reasons the bank really doesnt care, because the fee for a denied chargeback is a nice earner for the bank.

 

[bulldog88]

Australian consumer law overrides anything that Virgin writes in it's T&Cs. Banks know this

I've got some Velocity reward bookings scheduled for later this year (international VA & Etihad flights) , they haven't been cancelled yet.. I wonder who is going to refund me the ~$300 per flight in taxes & fuel surcharges.

 

[oz_mark]

Australian consumer law overrides anything that Virgin writes in it's T&Cs. Banks know this

Chargebacks don't exist because of the ACL. They exist to give confidence in the particular payment method.
Decisions on chargebacks are made within the scheme rules.

 

[Bell21]

It's interesting how particular forum threads really evoke passion, so I can't resist my 10 c worth!

Cards on the table - as VA slid into VA, it was partly coincidental timing, I put in claims for VA chargebacks for over $1k. It was a pragmatic decision (partly spurred on by @amaroo).

My read of it is that technically, I'm prepare to accept that VA and the card provider are probably within their rights to refuse a refund, according to VA's T&Cs and ACCC guidelines, although it appears that it be more ambiguous than that at law, given other comments.

I observe other airlines, such as QF / JQ (correct me if I'm wrong) and now SQ offer refunds for cancelled flights, as well as the EU adopting a similar stance to providing refunds. I also think that fundamentally, VA didn't provide the service I paid for, I have no idea if / when I'll be able to travel and travel with VA in particular, and as much as I want to support VA during difficult times, it's challenging times and I feel comfortable putting up a pragmatic case that the $ should be back in my pocket, not theirs. I also have a premium card, and I have an excellent payment history, so I'm hoping that the provider will see it in my favour.

If none of that works, there is travel insurance as a potential back-up, or last resort, I'll have to keep the credit!

 

[knagelli]

I tried having the dispute raised by Amex for charge back which was initially credited to my bank account. Sadly couple of days ago Amex has notified that VA does not agree to charge back and they have adjusted the charge back and now I have to live with travel credit.

When I tried to convince Amex that I did not get the service promised from VA , I was told they cannot honor the charge back unless merchant is willing to proceed and this case I was asked to reach out to AFCA or live the travel credit.

Note : Travel insurance does not work in this case and Platinum Charge card neither did help me.

 

[Fifa]

I tried having the dispute raised by Amex for charge back which was initially credited to my bank account. Sadly couple of days ago Amex has notified that VA does not agree to charge back and they have adjusted the charge back and now I have to live with travel credit.

When did you apply for the chargeback and when did Amex advise that you were unsuccessful?
Was the chargeback for a flexible or AP fare?

 

[knagelli]

When did you apply for the chargeback and when did Amex advise that you were unsuccessful?

Chargeback was in the first week of April and it was closed on 6th Apr , with approx $1800 credited to my account. And again on 23rd Apr there were debit adjustments as Virgin Australia did not respond in favour of that.

Was the chargeback for a flexible or AP fare?

The chargeback was for the reason , VA kept changing my flight schedule and updated that from a non-stop flight to 1 stop flight via a different route.

And it was not a flexible far and yes I think I am not eligible for cash refund from VA for elevate fare. However if the service promised was not delivered as agreed then I believe I have every right to dispute the charges but at this moment it is a dead end for me with $1800 in travel bank.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

However if the service promised was not delivered as agreed then I believe I have every right to dispute the charges but at this moment it is a dead end for me with $1800 in travel bank.

Your ‘rights’ will depend on consumer laws, and your contract with VA.

The ACCC has stated CV-19 is an extraordinary event, and standard guarantees may not apply.

You can then turn to your contract with VA. If it, like qantas’, says you can have a full refund, you should be good to go. If they only provide for a credit, a chargeback would be rightfully open for challenge.

 

[theblank]

When I tried to convince Amex that I did not get the service promised from VA , I was told they cannot honor the charge back unless merchant is willing to proceed and this case I was asked to reach out to AFCA or live the travel credit.

Thats exactly what I said a few posts above. Amex et al are not going to adjudicate on what is in fact a dispute between consumer and Merchant. The reason so many people get away with chargeback like this is the Merchant just decides to suck it up rather than argue. But when there are thousands of them, the airline needs is probably going to make a blanket decision, to let them go or reject.

At the moment I expect that unless the relevant governing body rules against the travel credits, the airlines are not going to give them up.

 

[Bell21]

I tried having the dispute raised by Amex for charge back which was initially credited to my bank account. Sadly couple of days ago Amex has notified that VA does not agree to charge back and they have adjusted the charge back and now I have to live with travel credit.

When I tried to convince Amex that I did not get the service promised from VA , I was told they cannot honor the charge back unless merchant is willing to proceed and this case I was asked to reach out to AFCA or live the travel credit.

Note : Travel insurance does not work in this case and Platinum Charge card neither did help me.

Well, I don't like my chances of a successful outcome then! I assume travel insurance doesn't work because there's no 'insurable loss'?

 

[glasszon]

Chargeback was in the first week of April and it was closed on 6th Apr , with approx $1800 credited to my account. And again on 23rd Apr there were debit adjustments as Virgin Australia did not respond in favour of that.



The chargeback was for the reason , VA kept changing my flight schedule and updated that from a non-stop flight to 1 stop flight via a different route.

And it was not a flexible far and yes I think I am not eligible for cash refund from VA for elevate fare. However if the service promised was not delivered as agreed then I believe I have every right to dispute the charges but at this moment it is a dead end for me with $1800 in travel bank.

I have the same issue but with a different merchant, I ended up contacting the Executive Customer Care team with Amex, which is listed on the AFCA website. They agreed with me that a future credit is not an acceptable substitute when it's the merchant who failed to provide the service and issued a refund after it was originally rejected by the disputes team.

It's worth going down that path if you don't want a travel credit, but make sure you arm yourself with all the evidence to show it's the merchant who cancelled on you, and not the other way around.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

They agreed with me that a future credit is not an acceptable substitute when it's the merchant who failed to provide the service and issued a refund after it was originally rejected by the disputes team.

On what legal basis have they said this? It's not under the ACL. Contractual grounds possibly, although not under the Covid-19 policy (it does appear to be under the general policy regarding cancellations and changes to flights where an alternative is not acceptable, but VA could possibly argue that it is not a cancellation 'they' made).

 

[glasszon]

On what legal basis have they said this? It's not under the ACL. Contractual grounds possibly, although not under the Covid-19 policy (it does appear to be under the general policy regarding cancellations and changes to flights where an alternative is not acceptable, but VA could possibly argue that it is not a cancellation 'they' made).

It wasn't for a flight, it's for a hotel that decides to close during the time when I was supposed to stay at the hotel (refer to the Luxury Escapes thread for more details), so it isn't 1 for 1.

Given Amex ruled in my favour, I am not going to challenge them about why they believe my chargeback is valid!