What's the beef with Halal?

[RooFlyer]

I really fail to see why Qantas couldn't just offer two choices on all DXB flights, one Halal and one non Halal.

Surely that would please both sides of the argument, or have I over simplified it??

No, I don't think you have over-simplified it. I've been arguing for "choice" here and there have been some pretty ugly comments. Apparently I can get the choice of a gluten free, vegetarian, kosher etc meal on other flights, but I absolutely can't get the choice of non halal on the Dubai flights.

 

[simongr]

No, I don't think you have over-simplified it. I've been arguing for "choice" here and there have been some pretty ugly comments. Apparently I can get the choice of a gluten free, vegetarian, kosher etc meal on other flights, but I absolutely can't get the choice of non halal on the Dubai flights.

There is a difference in that kosher meals taste different, gluten free has different ingredients. To all intents and purposes halal food (excepting the lack of pig and wine) is the same as non-halal.

 

[simongr]

Outside a bacon rasher for breakfast, how often do you get a pork option now?

No idea - on the DOM flights I often miss meal service - and if I don't it is the horrid thai chicken curry...

 

[whatmeworry]

No, I don't think you have over-simplified it. I've been arguing for "choice" here and there have been some pretty ugly comments. Apparently I can get the choice of a gluten free, vegetarian, kosher etc meal on other flights, but I absolutely can't get the choice of non halal on the Dubai flights.

If it is all about cultural sensitivities, then isn't insensitive not to offer a non-halal meal option?

 

[whatmeworry]

There is a difference in that kosher meals taste different, gluten free has different ingredients. To all intents and purposes halal food (excepting the lack of pig and wine) is the same as non-halal.

And don't forget no blood in the meat.

 

[RooFlyer]

There is a difference in that kosher meals taste different, gluten free has different ingredients. To all intents and purposes halal food (excepting the lack of pig and wine) is the same as non-halal.

The 'except' there negates your point doesn't it?

Qantas is proposing to prepare its meals entirely according to one religion's protocols on certain routes. It doesn't do this for any other route. OK, its a commercial decision, and I'm fine with that. But no-one here has given a rational reason why non-halal can't be offered as a 'special meal' option. And please, no 'you won't be able to tell the difference' tosh. That applies the other way as well. Could I argue that QF could serve non-pork containing meals (as most are) saying its halal, when its not, because the punters couldn't tell the difference.

Its the 'one size fits all' approach that I object to. Can you think of anything else on a QF flight where there is no choice (other than regulated and safety stuff)?

 

[oz_mark]

But no-one here has given a rational reason why non-halal can't be offered as a 'special meal' option.

Perhaps the issue is that whichever way you go (non-halal with a halal option, or the other way around), the special meal procedure would break down with the expected numbers of special meal requests.

 

[RooFlyer]

Perhaps the issue is that whichever way you go (non-halal with a halal option, or the other way around), the special meal procedure would break down with the expected numbers of special meal requests.

It depends on how keenly QF want to appease its 'new' and 'traditional' customers. As I said, OK with a commercial decision to go halal as the 'norm', but if there was a large, difficult to handle number if non-halal orders, that would be saying something in itself, wouldn't it?

 

[MrJetset]

I really fail to see why Qantas couldn't just offer two choices on all DXB flights, one Halal and one non Halal.

Surely that would please both sides of the argument, or have I over simplified it??

Because catering at DXB would be all Halal. Quite simple, really.

 

[whatmeworry]

Because catering at DXB would be all Halal. Quite simple, really.

All flights to DXB could have a non halal option but ex DXB, halal it is.

 

[medhead]

Well yes we are on different sides and it all depends what you want to believe/read/research,

Actually we're not on different sides. I'm on no side and both sides. I simply don't know and what of what I've read the answer is inconclusive, on balance. I'm happy to accept that you might be right but I've not seen anything that definitively supports your position, just as there is nothing definitive to dis-prove that position. Hence while I disagree with making a conclusion.

If it is all about cultural sensitivities, then isn't insensitive not to offer a non-halal meal option?

The thing is there is no culture that requires not eating halal. So exactly what cultural sensitivity would you protect by offering specifically non-halal meals? And exactly how would you offer a non-halal meal. The meat is easy to source, but all of the rest of the meal would have to be non-halal. It would have to involve grog or pork or bacon in it's preparation. Now I like a Caesar Salad every so often, but I also enjoy a nice "greek" salad as well. Olives, feta some nice lettuce with balsamic and olive oil. But that would most likely be Halal - non-halal means I can't have it. What about yogurt with added pig? Yes, I'm being a bit extreme, but the only real difference is lack of pig and the meat preparation. Oh and no grog. Basically, a large amount of what is halal is also what people eat anyway. Plus of course non-halal is not really a category.

 

[The Rok]

Well I'm stupid so I didn't know the full definition of halal, so I asked my friend Wikipedia and the response was that halal refers not just to food, but to other facets of life.

One that caught my eye was alcohol, the consumption of alcohol is non halal, so are we to assume that the next step is for Qantas to stop serving alcohol on DXB flights???

That is a genuine question by the way!

 

[MrJetset]

Well I'm stupid so I didn't know the full definition of halal, so I asked my friend Wikipedia and the response was that halal refers not just to food, but to other facets of life.

One that caught my eye was alcohol, the consumption of alcohol is non halal, so are we to assume that the next step is for Qantas to stop serving alcohol on DXB flights???

That is a genuine question by the way!

Drivel and nonsense. Wikipedia is not an authoritative source.

I'll break it down for you. In Arabic, like English, words can have a variety of meanings. In the Q'uran Halal is taken to mean allowed and Haram mean forbidden. Between people we use Haram to mean unfair. As with English it depends on context.

It's a bit like how Jihad used by Americans means holy war, when it actually means an internal struggle of faith.

On the QF/EK the use of Halal strictly refers to food preparation. It has nothing to do with alcohol, fasting, or any other Islamic practice.

 

[whatmeworry]

The thing is there is no culture that requires not eating halal. So exactly what cultural sensitivity would you protect by offering specifically non-halal meals? And exactly how would you offer a non-halal meal. The meat is easy to source, but all of the rest of the meal would have to be non-halal. It would have to involve grog or pork or bacon in it's preparation. Now I like a Caesar Salad every so often, but I also enjoy a nice "greek" salad as well. Olives, feta some nice lettuce with balsamic and olive oil. But that would most likely be Halal - non-halal means I can't have it. What about yogurt with added pig? Yes, I'm being a bit extreme, but the only real difference is lack of pig and the meat preparation. Oh and no grog. Basically, a large amount of what is halal is also what people eat anyway. Plus of course non-halal is not really a category.

Non halal basically means a food option that has not been certified by some Islamic organisation. There are food stuffs in Australia that don't require certification, eg milk, but for reason some manufacturers have got the certification. Even chocolate Easter eggs have been getting the halal certification despite Easter Eggs being part of a Christian holiday. The halal certification I find the funniest, is Halal certified Cat Food! No other culture forbids the eating of halal food but it would be nice to have a option.

Good article questioning whether halal certification is more about money?
Halal Easter eggs and cat food: where big money meets religion

 

[MrJetset]

Good article questioning whether halal certification is more about money?
Halal Easter eggs and cat food: where big money meets religion

As stated earlier, it's no different to a Fair Trade certification or the Heart Foundation tick.
​

 

[RooFlyer]

Drivel and nonsense. Wikipedia is not an authoritative source.

I'll break it down for you. In Arabic, like English, words can have a variety of meanings. In the Q'uran Halal is taken to mean allowed and Haram mean forbidden. Between people we use Haram to mean unfair. As with English it depends on context.

It's a bit like how Jihad used by Americans means holy war, when it actually means an internal struggle of faith.

On the QF/EK the use of Halal strictly refers to food preparation. It has nothing to do with alcohol, fasting, or any other Islamic practice.

OK, lets have the FAs give that explanation after the safety demo. I'm sure everyone will appreciate knowing the meanings given in the Koran. Will make the halal food much more palatable.

Hmmm .. and explain to me again whay I have to have my food prepared in that way in flying QF to Dubai? Why I can't have a choice, if I go to the trouble of ordering it in advance? Why, having left Sydney, flying over Alice Springs, my food has to be prepared a certain way and why I can't have another option? (Unlike the options which are available for just about every aspect of flight.)

 

[medhead]

Well I'm stupid so I didn't know the full definition of halal, so I asked my friend Wikipedia and the response was that halal refers not just to food, but to other facets of life.

One that caught my eye was alcohol, the consumption of alcohol is non halal, so are we to assume that the next step is for Qantas to stop serving alcohol on DXB flights???

That is a genuine question by the way!

Qantas are serving Halal meals not introducing halal service. So the only prohibition on grog is being used to prepare the meal. You can still enjoy a red with your steak sanga. So while wikipedia is right about grog not being allowed in a muslim diet, that does not apply to want Qantas is doing. Don't Emirates also serve booze?

Non halal basically means a food option that has not been certified by some Islamic organisation. There are food stuffs in Australia that don't require certification, eg milk, but for reason some manufacturers have got the certification. Even chocolate Easter eggs have been getting the halal certification despite Easter Eggs being part of a Christian holiday. The halal certification I find the funniest, is Halal certified Cat Food! No other culture forbids the eating of halal food but it would be nice to have a option.

Good article questioning whether halal certification is more about money?
Halal Easter eggs and cat food: where big money meets religion

Sorry, I'm not sure how that is different to other certifications. Certification just provides certainty. In my field I look for scientific services that are NATA certified, because I wish to have a layer of certainty about reliability. Surely halal certification is just about providing certainty to people who hold those beliefs?

The easter egg thing is very interesting and I think the short answer is that it gets into the complex relationship between the 3 groups who are the "child of the book". As I understand Islam/Muslim do recognise christ in someway, they don't dismiss him as nothing. So acknowledging the significance is not entirely out there (I'm making this up as a theory BTW). But the really short answer must be that kids like to eat chocolate. I don't have any problem with people letting their children join with their friends to enjoy chocolate eggs that meet their dietary requirements.

The other point about easter eggs is to certify that they don't contain pork products, e.g. pig bits are not used to make gelatine. Where's the problem with letting people know?

Cat food? I don't know, maybe older people eating it isn't limited to white aussies.

 

[MrJetset]

OK, lets have the FAs give that explanation after the safety demo. I'm sure everyone will appreciate knowing the meanings given in the Koran. Will make the halal food much more palatable.

Hmmm .. and explain to me again whay I have to have my food prepared in that way in flying QF to Dubai? Why I can't have a choice, if I go to the trouble of ordering it in advance? Why, having left Sydney, flying over Alice Springs, my food has to be prepared a certain way and why I can't have another option? (Unlike the options which are available for just about every aspect of flight.)

I think you should quit whinging and just stop flying QF.

Perhaps try EY, MH, D7... oh, wait...

 

[admin]

OK. Enough. Time to close this thread. Thank you to all those who made a genuine effort to contribute to the discussion and a special thanks to our moderators who spent many (volunteer) hours working on this thread.

 

[katiebell]

Re: Qantas / Emirates tie up (Partnership inc. Codeshare, Status)

as oz_mark said.

I found these lines interesting,
"Virgin Australia does not serve pork on flights to and from Abu Dhabi and all meals that are prepared are halal accredited, with meat prepared in a way prescribed by Islamic law."

Read more: Qantas bans ham on flights in and out of Dubai after Emirates deal | News.com.au

Was this mentioned in the great bacon debate a few pages ago?

on a seperate, but related note, the only time I remember getting bacon on a plane was on BA, the bacon butty with proper tea, yumm.

I suppose the sausages could be pork, but this could be subbed for beef or chicken with little fuss.

Whilst I have no problem with offering a culturally approriate meal option on a flight I do not see why non-Muslims should not have culturally appropriate meals too, including the option of pork if they wish to eat it as this reflects the multicultural nature of Australia. Why, also only serve halal-slaughtered animal products: many see this method of killing animals as cruel.

FInally, if QF can manage to change a whole menu to cater for a minority passenger group (they are entitled to have an acceptable meal: I have no problem with that, only the imposition of it on everyone), why can't QF get its own meal options for its own pax right? In particular, why do they insist that a VGML (vegan meal: no milk, cheese, butter, chocolate eggs etc) is an accepteable meal for someone who has ordered VLML (lacto-ovo vegetarian i.e. milk, cheese, eggs, butter, chocolate etc): especially wrong for premium pax who have paid a lot of money for extra comforts including good food.