What's the beef with Halal?

[cgichard]

Did someone say Bacon?

View attachment 14251

Breakfast in Dubai.

That's not bacon. That's soy bacon. Betcha! Soy Bacon Causes Low Sperm Count

 

[SQ421]

tell 'em its halal

Qantas did.

And now look at this thread.

 

[freepyjamas]

<redacted off-topic comments>

Would much prefer Qantas adopt a ethics-based approach to sourcing and preparing food: free range where appropriate, minimising pain and suffering in slaughter, that kind of thing. Taking pork off the menu because they now fly through Dubai, but being prepared to serve meat that has been intensively/factory farmed but slaughtered in a way approved by one particular religion seems (to me at least) to be a very retrograde step. And one that certainly isn't in keeping with my personal beliefs.

Won't stop me flying Qantas though, and I doubt it'll stop too many others either. The food is a very small part of the experience for me.

<redacted off-topic comments>

 

[amaroo]

Didn't we ban the sale of live cattle to Indo because of Halal process?

I don't care what law/region the animal is killed........as long as it's humane.

I assume QF have selected one supply chain to satisfy all faiths.....or, they were told by EK this is the deal.

 

[whatmeworry]

Didn't we ban the sale of live cattle to Indo because of Halal process?

I don't care what law/region the animal is killed........as long as it's humane.

I assume QF have selected one supply chain to satisfy all faiths.....or, they were told by EK this is the deal.

What was happening in Indonesia was IIRC the locals were acting inhumanely towards the animal by not stunning the animal.

In Australia, all animals must be stunned before the ritual cutting of the throat is done. Usually halal does not require stunning.

There is argument that pure halal slaughter is cruel to the animal.

Their is some argument that halal slaughter is not particularly hygienic.

Anybody who loves a juicy steak in DXB forget about it!

 

[medhead]

I think that many posters in this thread may receive some edification from search Halal in Wikipedia and having a read. It certainly covers most the the issues raised here.

As children of the book Jewish food is, and Christian food should be considered acceptable. But most everyone agrees that Christians have move away from their past dietary and slaughtering practises. For example eating pig. Shellfish aren't kosher either.

There is a risk of excrement mixing with the meat during slaughter due to the slower death. ECG measurements have been made during the slaughter process. Some studies show stunning results in more brain activity.

Animals beaten to death are not halal, which seems to have been the issue with Indonesia.

Anyway, an interesting read with plenty of sources.

 

[JohnK]

If QF presented the menu as Chicken or Beef who really gives a flying xx_x how the said animal was killed ? I order the beef and it's edible, no problem. I don't care which way it was facing or whatever else may be required. Seriously people, this forum has lost its way lately.

Why?

Food preparation may not be an issue for you but it is to others. I am actually glad it is out in the open.

This is supposed to be a 2-sided argument but as usual one side is the loudest. I am all for choice. I choose non-halal for any number of reasons and each one of them just as imporant as the people who choose halal.

 

[Alanslegal]

Anyone so precious to think Halal is bad or what not - or that they think it's terrible that bacon won't be on the menu, then just avoid QF1/2/9/10 .... simple.

Anyone who believes the QF/EK tie up is bad or what not, just don't fly QF/EK .... simple.

There are literally another 50 airlines who are more than ready, willing and able to take you to the same places or close enough to the places that QF/EK will take you anyway.

QF at least is trying to move forward from a business perspective and to make sure it prospers in the future to come. Its either form an alliance with a behemoth middle eastern airline like EK, or expect a huge fight by itself against the mights of SQ and the multiple chinese based airlines who are now growing at a fast rate. Without any major alliances QF international will probably fight an upward battle and one which it can't afford to do so in the long term.

 

[JohnK]

Anyone so precious to think Halal is bad or what not - or that they think it's terrible that bacon won't be on the menu, then just avoid QF1/2/9/10 .... simple.

Is it that simple?

But if everyone was as tolerant as everyone wants then 'halal', 'non-halal' including bacon, kosher, vegan, vegetarian, could all co-exist and no one would be offended. Right?

That would have been a much simpler answer.

 

[straitman]

I agree. The intolerance and racism that has come to the fore in this thread is not good and reflects poorly on some members.

As experienced travellers we should have been exposed to many different influences, cultures and religions, regardless of whether or not we agree with them, that we should be tolerant, understanding and appreciative of the opportunity to learn rather than simply criticise and even worse belittle.

As a privileged group, I believe we should be better than this and demonstrate our tolerance towards others rather than ignorance, fear and in some cases outright abuse.

I agree with Hvr here that this reflects badly on the individuals more than on the forum overall. People should be able to debate as adults without intolerance and without needing to put people down.

And not a single mod has commented on the blatant Islamaphobia, xenophobia and intolerance.

Perhaps they should look at the Frequent Flyers Australia facebook page and see how many of us are jumping ship. Not because of the EK deal, or Halal meat, but because this forum enables such discussion to go unchecked.

[mod hat on] If you feel the discussion has gone to far and is as you say it is then report the posts that you find offensive and they will be looked at. Personally I don't think they have but that is very subjective and my opinion only. Some people have, as usual been pushing the line and it's time they backed off. At the same time several posts have been removed but very little if any has breached any forum rules IMHO. Also be aware that the mods are not always online and so sometimes things will run for a while until seen or reported. [/mod hat off]

 

[JohnK]

<redacted off-topic comments>

Would we even have this argument if the word 'kosher' was used instead of 'halal'?

We should not be having this argument if we stuck to 'non-halal' and given all the others a choice such as 'kosher', 'vegan', 'halal' etc.

I really do not understand why the majority need to change to satisfy a minority? What is wrong with our culture?

And I actually feel I am the one that is being attacked. I have read parts of the Qur'an. I understand 'halal'. I do not like any of them. And by the way I can say that just as easily as people say the Holy Bible is a fairytale.

I don't care how my meat is killed but I do not want it to be facing a certain direction when it gets slaughetered. Yes that is important to me. You see I have my own beliefs and I am not about to change them just to please others regardless of how politically incorrect that may seem to some.

And I am tolerant of others but not when they try to force their own beliefs down my throat and telling me it is for my own good. You can fool some of the people some of the time but you can't fool everyone all the time. Is that how it goes? So sorry if we disagree on the actual argument.

 

[whatmeworry]

I guess as they say in Thailand it is "same same but different" in regards to regular and halal meals.

In birmingham, halal meats was contaminated with pork.
BBC News - Halal meat in Birmingham found to contain pork

In the UK mislabelled fish varieties are sold.
BBC News - Mislabelled fish slip into Europe's menus

As I have pondered this once, twice, thrice, this is all about QF lowering costs on their "new friend" route whether we like it or we like or not.

The QF CEO's personal and religious background (I don't want reiterate what they are) is known to most, but I am sure he looked at the dollars and cents of this deal. I am sure in his mind it was totally reasonable.

Just wait till the tabloids and shock jocks catch wind of this story.

 

[SQ421]

Is it that simple?

Yes it is. Chose a different airline. Last I checked, there was ample competition on the Kangaroo Route. Even within the same alliance as Qantas. I'd steer clear of Malaysian though. Those pesky little buggers catering is all Halal as well.

BTW, Q-Catering has been halal compliant for a while now, so it is more than likely that anything non-bacon that you've eaten at a Qantas Lounge or on a Qantas Plane in the last few years has been, shock and horror, halal.

 

[RooFlyer]

<redacted off-topic comments>

If you don't like what your fellow forum haunters write, you can either
a) report them as inappropriate or
b) don't read the thread or leave the forum.

My posts have all been about having normal meal choice on the Dubai flights. And I'll stick by them, thanks.

 

[admin]

Post the Easter break, our Moderation team has a bit more time available. We will be looking at some of the posts in this thread to ensure the conversation remains on topic. I have therefore temporarily locked this thread so that we can complete our review. AFF is a broad community with a range of opinions. We understand some members may not agree with some of the opinions shared by others, and ask for tolerance. That said, any kind of racism is never acceptable on AFF.

 

[NM]

[Mod Hat]
I have gone through a "cleaned up" this thread somewhat. While it is generally the moderators intention to moderate in moderation, there are times when some action is action is required to maintain the appropriate level of decorum in the forums. It is not our intention to restrict debate or to impose any particular opinion through moderation activities, but to enforce the AFF posting guidelines and to maintain decorum in the forums.

While I have removed many posts in this thread, the removal of most is more about remaining on topic (which is about QF serving only Halal food on flights through Dubai) rather than the posts contravening AFF's posting guidelines. So if you find some of your posts have been removed, don't be alarmed or feel concerned. Some posts have been edited where part of the post was off-topic and part was on-topic, so that the on-topic content is preserved.

This is obviously a topic that has two opposing views. Disagreeing with another member's view/opinion is most certainly permitted, and expressing your opinion, even if different to the perceived majority, is very much acceptable - provided the delivery is not in breach of the AFF posting guidelines.

Also note that just because someone holds different views to you, or holds what may be deemed to be a minority view, does not automatically make them wrong, racist, xenophobic, intolerant or un-Australian. It is not our job as moderators, nor the job of forum members to restrict, shape or change anyone's views or opinions. Feel free to explain your own views (without being offensive, racist, abusive etc per the AFF posting guidelines), but avoid the suggestion that someone else's views/beliefs/opinions are wrong or less important than your own.

Now, time to get back to the topic at hand, which is discussion about Qantas catering for flights to/from DXB with Halal dishes.
[/Mod Hat]

 

[medhead]

I really do not understand why the majority need to change to satisfy a minority? What is wrong with our culture?

*Snip*

I don't care how my meat is killed but I do not want it to be facing a certain direction when it gets slaughetered. Yes that is important to me. You see I have my own beliefs and I am not about to change them just to please others regardless of how politically incorrect that may seem to some.

And I am tolerant of others but not when they try to force their own beliefs down my throat and telling me it is for my own good.

Unless you eat pig based food for every meal, this decision does not force you to change. No one's beliefs are being shoved down your throw. No one is telling you it's for your good. You seem to have eaten the Halal meal on MH without any problems. Why is it different just because qantas is the airline? Remembering that his only affect 4 flight numbers.

I also wondering what you do to prevent yourself eating non-halal meat that, by chance, just happened to be facing in a certain direction? Do you have plans of all the abattoirs in Australia and only source meat from those that have slaughter floors facing in the opposite direction? Or is there something special about qf1/2/9/10 when it comes to the prohibition on direction when killed?

So you make a business decision that 100% of the people are going to be restricted to a food preparation that is practiced by <2% of the population?

Australian culture is all about adapting to the existing practices not about expecting everyone to adapt to suit <2% of the population.

The question is not "What is wrong with halal?". The actual question should be "What is wrong with non-halal and why the need for the drastic to change to please 2% of the population?".

I also wanted to pick up on this and note that qantas has made this change to suit 23% of the world's population (as at 2010) not 2% of Australia's population. So the question really becomes why should that 23% change to suit 0.33% of the world's population?

 

[Rox]

I'm very disappointed in how few people seem to care how their meat is killed. Although it wasn't about halal slaughter I challenge anyone to watch the 4 corners program from 2 years ago about cattle exported to Indonesia and be able to look at a raw steak the same way. I've rarely eaten meat since.
Apart from that, Is going without pork in some form for a few hours a problem, and what other issues are there that would affect you when offered an otherwise enjoyable meal on a plane?

 

[medhead]

I'm very disappointed in how few people seem to care how their meat is killed. Although it wasn't about halal slaughter I challenge anyone to watch the 4 corners program from 2 years ago about cattle exported to Indonesia and be able to look at a raw steak the same way. I've rarely eaten meat since.
Apart from that, Is going without pork in some form for a few hours a problem, and what other issues are there that would affect you when offered an otherwise enjoyable meal on a plane?

I think you second paragraph is the important point.

At the risk of going off topic, there has been very little comment about the method of slaughter, more about the religious aspects being forced on people and choice. But my take was that the practises in Indonesia did not represent what is expected for halal compliance.

 

[simongr]

I'm very disappointed in how few people seem to care how their meat is killed. Although it wasn't about halal slaughter I challenge anyone to watch the 4 corners program from 2 years ago about cattle exported to Indonesia and be able to look at a raw steak the same way. I've rarely eaten meat since.
Apart from that, Is going without pork in some form for a few hours a problem, and what other issues are there that would affect you when offered an otherwise enjoyable meal on a plane?

I think we need to distinguish between poor abattoir management processes and Halal slaughter.

I am not sure that most of us could distinguish between Halal and non-Halal meat in our meals.

I think to say that you are being forced to eat Halal meals because a small % of people want halal turns it around the wrong way. You are unaffected by eating halal meals and someone else is getting the opportunity to enjoy the whole menu option.

For me the bigger issue is the lack of bacon or pork product and I think they could have offered a pork meal on the flight,