Who gets Priority? Staff op ups v FF op ups!

[jb747]

Now I'm not sure what happened with that situation. I wonder if perhaps some business seats were being held for staff, hence posting here.

I've read this whole thread, mostly with a fair bit of amusement. QF staff travel is the least likely mob on this earth to give an upgrade to staff. It is such an unpleasant experience that a very large percentage of staff either don't use it at all, or use alternative airlines...which generally treat 'foreign' staff better than the QF system treats its own.

Most of the staff that you will see travelling are on duty travel. In that case their class of travel is part of an industrial award (and as such is little different to the deals that many of you will have with your own companies). The only time seats are likely to be 'held' for staff will be in the case of pilots, whose tickets are generally 'must travel' (for the pretty obvious reason that if they don't get where they are going, it is likely to have downline repercussions). Anyone else will simply await an empty seat.

As for people being collected and moved forward...that has happened to me, on occasions where I've been on an upgradable ticket (i.e. I've paid for business) but been given an economy seat. If a business seat is available at the end of seat allocation, they MAY come and tell me - just as likely not though. On the other hand, many, many more times have I been bumped to economy after being seated in a business class seat.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

We get to BNE this morning, check in at the service desk and bypass the kiosk area that was a mess. There was still 5 upgrades showing on Expert Flyer. Looking good.

Asked for about upgrades in the J lounge and I was told there are only 2 upgrades available. This caused me a moment of confusion as I thought it was all or nothing with upgrades. Was the agent really offering to upgrade 2 of us? Anyway, I questioned this reply by saying that I'm seeing 5 upgrades available (thanks Expert Flyer mobile mode). The agent replied that yes there are purchasable fares available. I replied that I was seeing 5 U fares and showed him. That then required the agent to verify the data source and look at the phone. Then they processed the upgrades, with a "sorry about that" when handing over the new BPs.

Now I'm not sure what happened with that situation. I wonder if perhaps some business seats were being held for staff, hence posting here. But that is only a suspicion, and I'm not making any accusations. If there is a choice between conspiracy and mistake, I choose mistake - the agent probably misread.

The business fares have changed from J6 D6 U5 to J2 D2 U2 following us getting the upgrades (in case anyone is interested)

We could almost be talking about the movie "The Castle" where Darryl Kerrigan says "how much did you pay for the Expert Flyer membership son"?

It's just paid for itself!

 

[medhead]

Hmmm, wonder if the CSM subscribes to the " J/F should be Adults Only" :shock:

but that would back fire as SWMBO doesn't believe in having the kids out of sight (so to speak). Hence they would be sitting in a row in front of us.

Great post. I'd really like to know what was going on here.

I've read this whole thread, mostly with a fair bit of amusement. QF staff travel is the least likely mob on this earth to give an upgrade to staff.

I'm inclined to say it was a misread. I guess there was some chance that we would have been op-uped and I'm pretty sure 2 people did get a magic beep at the gate as they were sitting in 1A and F, separated getting the last to seats available, and had to wait for everyone else to be served the meal. They looked like a couple, by the guy getting down a bag for the lady, and were in civys so we don't think staff on official travel.

Maybe the lounge agent could see us listed for an op-up. But that would be extremely unlikely, as there were at least 2 other WPs who got lucky getting our seats in row 4. I would also have thought he would give me a positive hint like "if I was a betting man I would wait until the gate" or similar. not to mention one WP and 3 NBs, getting an op-up! :shock:

Going back to the very first post, it's possible there is more that just having a good friend high up in QF. These "kids" could have been children of a CL member and not connected to the QF family directly via employees.

I also thought iphone app milionaires.

We could almost be talking about the movie "The Castle" where Darryl Kerrigan says "how much did you pay for the Expert Flyer membership son"?

It's just paid for itself!

I forgot to mention that, definitely paid for itself! And to think I held out on getting expert flyer because I thought they were dreaming.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

.....and then there's people who pretend to be staff like a ubiquitous self-employed check & training Captain who flies BNE/DRW once in a while including yesterday to do Metro endorsements for Hardy Aviation.

He's always dressed in full regalia ie navy slacks, white pilot shirt & yes 4 gold bars! He's even managed to find himself an old Qantas lanyard from somewhere to attach to his (non-QF) ASIC card.

He gets onboard & tells cabin crew he's a Qantas Link Captain on duty travel & should've been booked in Business Class & sure enough crew have erred on the side of caution & moved him up to J.

Funny thing is I had a conversation with a CNS based colleague at dinner one night when we got on to this subject & finished each others' sentences! He also pulls the same stunt when he flies to CNS to do Citation endorsements.

A DRW based colleague who knows of him, was once flying DRW/BNE on the same flight in (both were in whY) & commented "that was quite possibly the most tragic thing I've ever seen"!

The cabin crew yesterday were made aware of his colourful history so I don't think he would have been in J on this occasion. Now if he was a real Qantas Pilot he would have removed the gold bars from the epaulettes first!

I can't help thinking that misrepresenting yourself in that manner is slightly illegal. :shock: :shock:

 

[docjames]

.....and then there's people who pretend to be staff like a ubiquitous self-employed check & training Captain who flies BNE/DRW once in a while including yesterday to do Metro endorsements for Hardy Aviation.

He's always dressed in full regalia ie navy slacks, white pilot shirt & yes 4 gold bars! He's even managed to find himself an old Qantas lanyard from somewhere to attach to his (non-QF) ASIC card.

He gets onboard & tells cabin crew he's a Qantas Link Captain on duty travel & should've been booked in Business Class & sure enough crew have erred on the side of caution & moved him up to J.

Funny thing is I had a conversation with a CNS based colleague at dinner one night when we got on to this subject & finished each others' sentences! He also pulls the same stunt when he flies to CNS to do Citation endorsements.

A DRW based colleague who knows of him, was once flying DRW/BNE on the same flight in (both were in whY) & commented "that was quite possibly the most tragic thing I've ever seen"!

The cabin crew yesterday were made aware of his colourful history so I don't think he would have been in J on this occasion. Now if he was a real Qantas Pilot he would have removed the gold bars from the epaulettes first!

I can't help thinking that misrepresenting yourself in that manner is slightly illegal. :shock: :shock:

I am surprised he hasnt been caught and charged with something (? fraud)

 

[jb747]

He's always dressed in full regalia ie navy slacks, white pilot shirt & yes 4 gold bars! He's even managed to find himself an old Qantas lanyard from somewhere to attach to his (non-QF) ASIC card.

He gets onboard & tells cabin crew he's a Qantas Link Captain on duty travel & should've been booked in Business Class & sure enough crew have erred on the side of caution & moved him up to J.

Is this something you've seen first hand, or a tale you've heard?

Basically the cabin crew are extremely unlikely to move him, no matter what his story. And rank details are printed on pilots' boarding passes.....

Now if he was a real Qantas Pilot he would have removed the gold bars from the epaulettes first!

Why?

 

[ozmille]

One personal experience. I was booked in Y+ from LHR to SYD as SG and requested a points upgrade. Was unlucky and didn't think of it, it's a lottery anyway. In the lounge I started talking to 2 guys who had been upgraded from Y to J as PS. Turned out one of the guys knew somebody at QF. Wasn't too happy when I heard this.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Is this something you've seen first hand, or a tale you've heard?

Basically the cabin crew are extremely unlikely to move him, no matter what his story. And rank details are printed on pilots' boarding passes.....

Why?

I've seen him on more than one occasion in his uniform at DRW & BNE Airports but I've never been on a flight he's been on. All QF Airport Duty Managers in DRW know about him & his escapades.

The trouble is, he has got away with it before. He has in the past been booked as a Captain on the manifest but he doesn't appear on the manifest as being on Duty Travel despite his claims.

Another one of his tricks is to upgrade on points in the QP of which he's a member then claim after the event that the lounge staff deducted the points without his authority & tried to claim them back.

My comment re QF Pilots & lack of epaulettes was referring when then are paxing or deadheading & don't want to draw attention to themselves, not when they're in command of an aircraft.

I can see no valid reason why this person needs to wear 4 gold bars on a flight as a passenger.

 

[gumpy]

One personal experience. I was booked in Y+ from LHR to SYD as SG and requested a points upgrade. Was unlucky and didn't think of it, it's a lottery anyway. In the lounge I started talking to 2 guys who had been upgraded from Y to J as PS. Turned out one of the guys knew somebody at QF. Wasn't too happy when I heard this.

This would upset me if you were from the same cabin but they're in J going to F and you were Y+ going to J right? I'm just puzzled as to who took your J seats that were vacated by the two people. Y+ to J is a fairly easy upgrade isn't it? Or would a WP in Y get higher preference?

 

[gumpy]

.....and then there's people who pretend to be staff like a ubiquitous self-employed check & training Captain who flies BNE/DRW once in a while including yesterday to do Metro endorsements for Hardy Aviation.

He's always dressed in full regalia ie navy slacks, white pilot shirt & yes 4 gold bars! He's even managed to find himself an old Qantas lanyard from somewhere to attach to his (non-QF) ASIC card.

He gets onboard & tells cabin crew he's a Qantas Link Captain on duty travel & should've been booked in Business Class & sure enough crew have erred on the side of caution & moved him up to J.

Funny thing is I had a conversation with a CNS based colleague at dinner one night when we got on to this subject & finished each others' sentences! He also pulls the same stunt when he flies to CNS to do Citation endorsements.

A DRW based colleague who knows of him, was once flying DRW/BNE on the same flight in (both were in whY) & commented "that was quite possibly the most tragic thing I've ever seen"!

The cabin crew yesterday were made aware of his colourful history so I don't think he would have been in J on this occasion. Now if he was a real Qantas Pilot he would have removed the gold bars from the epaulettes first!

I can't help thinking that misrepresenting yourself in that manner is slightly illegal. :shock: :shock:

Just on captains... On a recent flight from LAS to LAX I spotted 2 captains in economy with me.

 

[gumpy]

I haven't read the entire thread. however, I just wanted to report an experience that I had this morning. I'll stress that I am not forming a judgement, just reporting the facts (hopefully no too one sidedly)

I'm currently travelling with the family (2+2). SWMBO has the fear of flying and hence I've been watching for upgrade seats. We got the upgrade on the way up, row 1 and it was good. The return upgrade was a bit more of a hassle, but 7 upgrade seats appeared yesterday at about T-23. I was kicking myself all night for not checking for availability just before T-24, as after that point upgrades can only be had at the airport and not online (big learning for me).

We get to BNE this morning, check in at the service desk and bypass the kiosk area that was a mess. There was still 5 upgrades showing on Expert Flyer. Looking good.

Asked for about upgrades in the J lounge and I was told there are only 2 upgrades available. This caused me a moment of confusion as I thought it was all or nothing with upgrades. Was the agent really offering to upgrade 2 of us? Anyway, I questioned this reply by saying that I'm seeing 5 upgrades available (thanks Expert Flyer mobile mode). The agent replied that yes there are purchasable fares available. I replied that I was seeing 5 U fares and showed him. That then required the agent to verify the data source and look at the phone. Then they processed the upgrades, with a "sorry about that" when handing over the new BPs.

Now I'm not sure what happened with that situation. I wonder if perhaps some business seats were being held for staff, hence posting here. But that is only a suspicion, and I'm not making any accusations. If there is a choice between conspiracy and mistake, I choose mistake - the agent probably misread.

The business fares have changed from J6 D6 U5 to J2 D2 U2 following us getting the upgrades (in case anyone is interested)

Points upgrades at check in at the same rates as the ones your apply for 24 hrs before?

2ndly... that's dodgy what they did...

3rdly... glad you had expert flyer...

 

[medhead]

Points upgrades at check in at the same rates as the ones your apply for 24 hrs before?

Yes, points upgrades at the same rate. I might have saved some hassle if I was aware/remembered the 24 hour cut off.

Very glad I had expert flyer!

 

[ozmille]

This would upset me if you were from the same cabin but they're in J going to F and you were Y+ going to J right? I'm just puzzled as to who took your J seats that were vacated by the two people. Y+ to J is a fairly easy upgrade isn't it? Or would a WP in Y get higher preference?

I was booked in Y+ and requested upgrade to J and was not successful
they were booked in Y and wanted upgrade to J and they got it because one of them knew someone in QF

 

[gumpy]

I was booked in Y+ and requested upgrade to J and was not successful
they were booked in Y and wanted upgrade to J and they got it because one of them knew someone in QF

Oh that's BS...

for some reason I read it as J to F

 

[UP4014]

I was booked in Y+ and requested upgrade to J and was not successful
they were booked in Y and wanted upgrade to J and they got it because one of them knew someone in QF

Most unlikely they got it because they knew someone at QF despite the inference.

 

[gumpy]

Most unlikely they got it because they knew someone at QF despite the inference.

how did they get it then? lower status and lower fare...

 

[UP4014]

how did they get it then? lower status and lower fare...

There is more to it than we know, no suggestion ozmille hasn't told all. I do know that passenger history can also be taken into account so maybe something there to warrant it.

 

[brett-au]

Just my two cents on this issue.
If a frequent flyer has 1,000,000 miles in their account, then effectively this is 'money' Qantas owes the frequent flyer. Surely allowing the FF to use these miles costs the company more than letting them sit on it and rot away.
If a FF wants an upgrade to a higher class, then this cost the airline more than doing nothing, and as a result if the airline can sell the ticket to a staff member for a few hundred dollars (I assume), then they are a few hundred ahead and their load factors go up.
Giving an upgrade for free or points only looks to decrease the perceived value of the Y+, J and F seat.
I would say that thai (and jetstar) have the right idea offering me J for $600 on the day. I've done a jetstar ODU but those days appear to be over :-(

ps I have been lucky enough to get a free upgrade on Singapore and on Cathay and enjoyed them very much, giving me a warm fuzzy feeling about the airline.

 

[medhead]

Just my two cents on this issue.
If a frequent flyer has 1,000,000 miles in their account, then effectively this is 'money' Qantas owes the frequent flyer. Surely allowing the FF to use these miles costs the company more than letting them sit on it and rot away.

No actually qantas makes money when points are redeemed. This is why QFF is one of the most profitable bits of the qantas group. In general it works like this: QFF collects a fee for every point that they issue. When you redeem a point QFF pays someone for whatever you get. So if you get an award flight QFF is charge by qantas airline for the seat. However, the money collected by QFF for the points you use is more than the money paid out for the seat = profit.

I got a bit of a feel of this with some recent ASAs I was investigating. So an ASA is based on a paid airfare and can be paid using only points or with a cash co-payment. For the airfares I looked at compare to the cash cost I would get about 0.83 cents per point in value. When I looked at reducing the points and making a cash co-payment it cost be about 1 cent per point not used. So there was about 0.17 cents difference in the value I could get per point and what it would cost me not to use the points.

 

[Lynnelanne]

I have a friend who is a retired Qantas baggage hander (20 years service). I know for certain (have been with them once, and seen photos too) that they are VERY frequently upgraded to business class as staff ticket holders. It seems to me to be almost a 'given'. They are rarely in cattle class. Down side is they do have to wait until last minute to know if they are flying or not.