Who gets Priority? Staff op ups v FF op ups!

[TheInsider]

I have a friend who is a retired Qantas baggage hander (20 years service). I know for certain (have been with them once, and seen photos too) that they are VERY frequently upgraded to business class as staff ticket holders. It seems to me to be almost a 'given'. They are rarely in cattle class. Down side is they do have to wait until last minute to know if they are flying or not.

Well yes obviously they do get upgraded, but generally it's last minute (if a busy flight -15min, if a pretty empty flight usually will confirm around -90min) and only if they have an upgradable ticket.

 

[elbarto]

On BA the order of priority for upgrades is generally

High tiered frequent flyers
Commercial ticketed pax
Staff
Paid upgrades

 

[ozmille]

On BA the order of priority for upgrades is generally

High tiered frequent flyers
Commercial ticketed pax
Staff
Paid upgrades

Interesting observation last week on BA where after the doors were closed some of the crew went to the back and brought about 7 people from the back to the front.

 

[ANstar]

I understand and agree with this.

But if it's on free staff travel (not on way to work), then IMO it would be better to OpUp status pax, and have the staff sit in whY.

Then it's win-win. Loyal FF's get a pleasant surprise, and staff get to go home/vacation or whatever it is.

But if upgrades are part of the airline employees package - then why shouldnt they get the upgrade rather than the customer who has not paid to be there? If you are always being upgraded then why would you pay cash or points to do it?

 

[UP4014]

I have a friend who is a retired Qantas baggage hander (20 years service). I know for certain (have been with them once, and seen photos too) that they are VERY frequently upgraded to business class as staff ticket holders. It seems to me to be almost a 'given'. They are rarely in cattle class. Down side is they do have to wait until last minute to know if they are flying or not.

Then I would guess they are group "a" staff travel passengers. (other family are classed group B)

Staff would also have the internal connections to choose flights that they know and can check have availability for staff seats. So they could check and know that Syd to LHR on Tuesday's give you best the chance of an upgrade and a seat, but they would still have to buy say a Business seat and hope there is one on the day in question.

 

[drron]

But if upgrades are part of the airline employees package - then why shouldnt they get the upgrade rather than the customer who has not paid to be there? If you are always being upgraded then why would you pay cash or points to do it?

The point is that on QF it is a lottery when you apply for a points upgrade-though this is for QFi.I certainly was totally miffed when I paid for a J award with points but given Y on 1 sector with only 14 J seats on a 747 occupied on flight day and at least 4 were staff upgrades.

 

[Lynnelanne]

Then I would guess they are group "a" staff travel passengers. (other family are classed group B)

Staff would also have the internal connections to choose flights that they know and can check have availability for staff seats. So they could check and know that Syd to LHR on Tuesday's give you best the chance of an upgrade and a seat, but they would still have to buy say a Business seat and hope there is one on the day in question.

Well there is the father (who was the baggage handler) and wife and two adult offspring. I very much doubt that he (five years plus after resignation as a baggage handler - hard a highly ranked position) would have access to any internal connections to choose flights with availability. Indeed, i was with the wife once when she couldn't get on a flight at all, so that doesn't really make sense.

 

[milehighclub]

I very much doubt that he (five years plus after resignation as a baggage handler - hard a highly ranked position) would have access to any internal connections to choose flights with availability. Indeed, i was with the wife once when she couldn't get on a flight at all, so that doesn't really make sense.

All employees have access to the staff travel system. We can see the loads for any QF or JQ flight. So he would look at the system before his holiday, and make sure he picks empty flights to get the upgrade.

But even though there is an empty seat - there could be a million reasons you still won't get on. Merged flights, cancellations, other airlines passengers if their flights are cancelled. They might deny you because of weight restrictions too even with spare seats.

Staff are absolutely the last ones to be loaded. If you didn't get a points upgrade internationally, the reason would not have been staff. Even with no staff on the flight, you still wouldn't have gotten the upgrade because staff get processed even after that.

 

[Lynnelanne]

All employees have access to the staff travel system.

Even ex-employees who haven't worked there for years? Not arguing, just curious. I will ask him next time I see him.

 

[milehighclub]

Yes - even ex employees, because the site for booking the tickets, is the same for showing us the loads.

 

[Lynnelanne]

Yes - even ex employees, because the site for booking the tickets, is the same for showing us the loads.

Well thank you, that's good to know. Next time i need to book a flight I know who to go ask for a peek at his computer.

 

[UP4014]

Well there is the father (who was the baggage handler) and wife and two adult offspring. I very much doubt that he (five years plus after resignation as a baggage handler - hard a highly ranked position) would have access to any internal connections to choose flights with availability. Indeed, i was with the wife once when she couldn't get on a flight at all, so that doesn't really make sense.

I should double check, but too tired to do so. 20 years I think gives 2 round the world first class tickets.I've posted somewhere on AFF but everyone is ranked from 1 to 70 odd (I think) with Alan Joyce and the board being no 1 and a contract terminal cleaner being say at no 65. So a baggage handler with say 20 years service who left on good terms might be say ranked at 50, which is 20 positions above the family member of employee of another airline.So employees can of cousre be bumped but at the same time there is an internal ranking in employee/family travel. It's not always apparent but there is a method to it and I would say it seems to work out well overall.Matt

 

[Lynnelanne]

I should double check, but too tired to do so. 20 years I think gives 2 round the world first class tickets.I've posted somewhere on AFF but everyone is ranked from 1 to 70 odd (I think) with Alan Joyce and the board being no 1 and a contract terminal cleaner being say at no 65. So a baggage handler with say 20 years service who left on good terms might be say ranked at 50, which is 20 positions above the family member of employee of another airline.So employees can of cousre be bumped but at the same time there is an internal ranking in employee/family travel. It's not always apparent but there is a method to it and I would say it seems to work out well overall.Matt

You're right about the round the world tix, they certainly got that although I don't recall any discussion of first class. Personally I would work for Satan for that :evil:

 

[UP4014]

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You're right about the round the world tix, they certainly got that although I don't recall any discussion of first class. Personally I would work for Satan for that :evil:

The 20 year ticket is a reward, other tickets have to purchsed and I think after 10 years it's a 90% discount for economy (does Business kick in at 15 years, can't remember) but you are flying on a standby ticket effectively.

Then there is Goup A, which is the employee and one nominated person and Group B is parents and some other family.

So rank 40A has priority over 40B, which can make it difficult for large family/nominated groups to travel together, but that's fine, it's designed like that.

 

[LiamR]

Slightly different question.

If your sitting on a Virgin flight, you checked in 24hrs before checkin and get Row 3C, on a Saver fare as a Platinum.

Do you think it's fare that at -15mins a staff traveller grabs the last seat on the aircraft, 2C and because he/she is sitting next to a PE pax. Receives full PE service.

Should the airport leave you where you are seated, as you selected 3C. Or move you to 2C and give you PE service and then move the staff traveller to 3C.

Thoughts?

 

[milehighclub]

I should double check, but too tired to do so. 20 years I think gives 2 round the world first class tickets.I've posted somewhere on AFF but everyone is ranked from 1 to 70 odd (I think) with Alan Joyce and the board being no 1 and a contract terminal cleaner being say at no 65. So a baggage handler with say 20 years service who left on good terms might be say ranked at 50, which is 20 positions above the family member of employee of another airline.So employees can of cousre be bumped but at the same time there is an internal ranking in employee/family travel. It's not always apparent but there is a method to it and I would say it seems to work out well overall.Matt

Correct - everyone is ranked. However your numbers are a little off. Here is a few examples of the ranking system.

1-2 is reserved for the exec committee
11-18 is for operational duty travel (so paxing crew etc)
33 is for compassionate travel
42 is a high priority trip (all staff get 2 a year - you use it to out rank others.)
50 is for Qantas staff (so that is me. If the flight is full for example, I can use one of the above trips to outrank someone)
51 is for my beneficiary A if they travel without me (If with me then they are 50 too)
59 is for my beneficiaries in B (parents + siblings if I don't have anyone in A) and retired staff
60 Alliance partners
65 Contract staff
73 Other airlines

If you are in the same category, you are ranked by start date. Upgrades are also ranked but by your department, not years. Execs before Captains, before FO, before SO, before CSM, before Crew/Ground Staff.

Staff are entitled to ID90 after 6 months of service. Business class upgrades for domestic services can also be bought at the same time. For international business upgrades it depends on the department. For me it is after 7 years. I will never be entitled to first.

 

[Lynnelanne]

Wow, that's very interesting. Probably not something I can use personally, but interesting nevertheless. Makes you wonder though, with that many people potentially on board, how the general rabble (e.g., paying passengers) every get any 'grace and favours'. Guess they don't.

 

[jb747]

I will never be entitled to first.

Very few can ever get first. Basically just execs and captains....

 

[straitman]

Slightly different question.

If your sitting on a Virgin flight, you checked in 24hrs before checkin and get Row 3C, on a Saver fare as a Platinum.

Do you think it's fare that at -15mins a staff traveller grabs the last seat on the aircraft, 2C and because he/she is sitting next to a PE pax. Receives full PE service.

Should the airport leave you where you are seated, as you selected 3C. Or move you to 2C and give you PE service and then move the staff traveller to 3C.

Thoughts?

This question has been asked time and time again. The answer IMHO depends upon a number of things, most of which you'll never know the answer to. They do of course all hinge around why the staff member is travelling and are they going to to be working after this flight and if so in what capacity.

 

[niemann]

If a staffer got an upgrade to F over me who applied for a points upgrade I'd be pissed...We pay their wages

There's a set number of 'upgradeable' J seats for commercial pax wanting to do points upgrades - it's not unlimited so as not to devalue the cabin for commercial paying J pax.

In general, staff on duty travel will trump spare J seats regardless, as there's a bit more staff control over this process. Must-rides are crew on operational duty travel ie they are deadheading for duty and they cannot be displaced or downgraded (with one rare situation for downgrades). They have the highest codes of all.
Note that the system that does the regrades ('op-up' is a non-existent term), now requires almost no intervention and goes strictly in order of priority codes, so these 'friends getting upgrades' stories are much rarer than they sound ...at most ports ....(I won't name the port where the most interference happens, but everyone knows which one it is!). Codes have two parts: an onload and an upgrade component. One gets you on, the other gets the F/J seat. Jump seats have another set of rules (red background, and from some pilots, no duty travel allowed in jumps).
If you're at the service desk, you'll often hear at T-15 a whole set of boarding passes printing one after the other: this is the automated staff regrades occurring. Staff generally sit in the last row of J so the meal-not-assured situation can be handled more easily by the cabin crew. The system is complicated, but by god is it well understood by each and every damned employee!!!