Why masks in airports?

[drron]

Burden of proof is on the person making the claim.

So I have posted 3 or 4 times the study from Denmark which is one of the better studies in the covid era. It compared house contacts of a positive covid patient and whether there was any difference of contracting covid with or without a mask. there was no significant difference and their conclusion was there was the possibility of wearing a mask reducing the incidence of covid by 1 or 2%. But of course a possibility it might make no difference or a 1% increase in cases.
I'm not going through all my posts to once again post the link. you can use google though seeing that study does not comply with Google fact checkers fixed ideas may well be on Page 20+.

So now it is up to you to come up with a better study that shows the opposite. But a warning I will not accept the Bangladesh study which most pundits quote as it was not a well designed study with way too many confounders.

 

[N860CR]

I don’t feel this thread is going anywhere. It’s clear the mask lovers want them forever and the mask haters want them gone for good. I think both sides will have to agree to disagree!

Heres an idea. The mask lovers wear and them so they can feel warm and fuzzy and the mask haters don’t, just like everyone 3 years ago. Problem solved!

 

[puchu]

So I have posted 3 or 4 times the study from Denmark which is one of the better studies in the covid era. It compared house contacts of a positive covid patient and whether there was any difference of contracting covid with or without a mask. there was no significant difference and their conclusion was there was the possibility of wearing a mask reducing the incidence of covid by 1 or 2%. But of course a possibility it might make no difference or a 1% increase in cases.
I'm not going through all my posts to once again post the link. you can use google though seeing that study does not comply with Google fact checkers fixed ideas may well be on Page 20+.

So now it is up to you to come up with a better study that shows the opposite. But a warning I will not accept the Bangladesh study which most pundits quote as it was not a well designed study with way too many confounders.

Thank you. I’m happy to accept this.

 

[cwphoto]

No the baseline is that if you make a claim you have supporting evidence to back the claim up. Otherwise anyone can throw anything out there and say “disprove this!”.

Edit: and you state that the baseline is that masks make no difference. The current baseline is that the masks are compulsory in airports. Your assertion is that masks make no difference. Prove it. Show the evidence instead of expecting others to do the work for you.

You're confusing policy/politics with science.

Masks in airport is just policy - a rule. Nothing to do with the efficacy or otherwise of masks.

Background on a popular scientific approach is hypothesis testing - where the assumed hypothesis (null) is the baseline of no difference: Statistical hypothesis testing - Wikipedia

 

[N860CR]

You're confusing policy/politics with science.

Masks in airport is just policy - a rule. Nothing to do with the efficacy or otherwise of masks.

Background on a popular scientific approach is hypothesis testing - where the assumed hypothesis (null) is the baseline of no difference: Statistical hypothesis testing - Wikipedia

This is what we should be coming back to (staying on topic if you like). Why are masks required in airports and on aeroplanes but in no other public settings?

If we flash back to 2020 when the pandemic started and we knew very little about this virus, masks were not worn anywhere nor mandated. When did they start appearing? When we started reopening/closing/reopening state borders at the whim of little Premiers who nobody had ever heard of before. Only then did National Cabinet go down the mask route in an attempt to get some control out of these people. It was always political and now nobody seems prepared to make the leap to end it.

 

[clifford]

Oh, and as a side note, I do make extremely important decisions that impact on people just like you. And it’s fortunate people with level heads are in that position.

That sounds rather ominous. Should we be afraid?

 

[N860CR]

That sounds rather ominous. Should we be afraid?

Why would you be? You’re always one for odd questions.

How’s your recovery going?

 

[clifford]

Why would you be? You’re always one for odd questions.

How’s your recovery going?

A bit like yours actually. This week I flew to OOL for a few days, took numerous public buses, trams and trains, and feel better than I have for quite some time. And I'm no longer a mask wearer in most situations. What's the point when no one else does?

My bout of Covid was certainly mild (a sore throat for a few days), but, unfortunately, that's not everyone's experience. I'd like to see a detailed breakdown of just who these 300-odd people are that seem to be dying of Covid in Australia each week.

 

[Happy Trails]

Here's a recent study on mask usage which concludes:

While no cause-effect conclusions could be inferred from this observational analysis, the lack of negative correlations between mask usage and COVID-19 cases and deaths suggest that the widespread use of masks at a time when an effective intervention was most needed, i.e., during the strong 2020-2021 autumn-winter peak, was not able to reduce COVID-19 transmission. Moreover, the moderate positive correlation between mask usage and deaths in Western Europe also suggests that the universal use of masks may have had harmful unintended consequences.

Correlation Between Mask Compliance and COVID-19 Outcomes in Europe

Masking was the single most common non-pharmaceutical intervention in the course of the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic. Most countries have implemented recommendations or mandates regarding the use of masks in public spaces. The aim of this short study was to analyse the...

www.cureus.com

 

[N860CR]

A bit like yours actually. This week I flew to OOL for a few days, took numerous public buses, trams and trains, and feel better than I have for quite some time. And I'm no longer a mask wearer in most situations. What's the point when no one else does?

My bout of Covid was certainly mild (a sore throat for a few days), but, unfortunately, that's not everyone's experience. I'd like to see a detailed breakdown of just who these 300-odd people are that seem to be dying of Covid in Australia each week.

Good result then. Glad you got over it quickly (as the vast majority do). I guess personal experience speaks louder than the words of others. And you’re considerably older than I am so it says a lot for your personal health and the benefit of vaccination.

Would be good to see a breakdown, but given the age of death, the location of the majority of cases (ie end of life care or upon hospital admission - where you’re tested) and the lack of concern by health bodies, I’d say we’re not seeing any excess mortality. It’s almost like we all got injected with something to prevent death. Amazing!

 

[JohnK]

Going back to a previous comment, there are a large number of Australians (perhaps not well represented on AFF) for whom dancing in crowded nightclubs is very important to them

I would also contest that doctors invariably wear masks (except when needing full PPE with N95 or they are obliged to). At a recent conference in France fewer than 10% did out of an audience of ~800 despite a recommendation from the chair

Easy to learn to live without dancing especially if risky to your health. I stopped smoking after a heart attack. I gave up alcohol for 2+ years.

People playing golf made lots of sacrifices during this pandemic and continue to do so. Small groups. Live within certain range of golf course. No sharing buggies. In Thailand no shower after golf.

People need to drop this me, me, me mentality. The majority fighting for their loss of rights wouldn't survive a really dangerous pandemic. They'd be the first casualties.

By the way @drron replied above that masks don't make a significant difference but they do make some difference. I try to minimise risks as much possible.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

As drron posted, masks are effective to reduce transmission if you are positive.

So folk on a one hour flight not wanting to wear a mask, while potentially infectious, mean that I miss out on seeing my dad in the hospital if i catch it from them.

It’s not just about mortality, it’s about the huge inconvenience a positive test result can cause.

 

[andye]

As drron posted, masks are effective to reduce transmission if you are positive.

So folk on a one hour flight not wanting to wear a mask, while potentially infectious, mean that I miss out on seeing my dad in the hospital if i catch it from them.

It’s not just about mortality, it’s about the huge inconvenience a positive test result can cause.

Sorry to hear of your father's illness.

Were I in your position, I would definitely have worn an N95 and goggles as more robust protection than others' poorly fitting masks

 

[N860CR]

Easy to learn to live without dancing especially if risky to your health. I stopped smoking after a heart attack. I gave up alcohol for 2+ years.

People playing golf made lots of sacrifices during this pandemic and continue to do so. Small groups. Live within certain range of golf course. No sharing buggies. In Thailand no shower after golf.

People need to drop this me, me, me mentality. The majority fighting for their loss of rights wouldn't survive a really dangerous pandemic. They'd be the first casualties.

By the way @drron replied above that masks don't make a significant difference but they do make some difference. I try to minimise risks as much possible.

The only ones with the “me me me” mentality are those trying to force pointless face masks onto others. We’re not in a “really dangerous” pandemic so I don’t see the point of that arguement? If anything, it proves we’re more about controlling others than taking logical precautions for the current risk.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The only ones with the “me me me” mentality are those trying to force pointless face masks onto others. We’re not in a “really dangerous” pandemic so I don’t see the point of that arguement? If anything, it proves we’re more about controlling others than taking logical precautions for the current risk.

As I mentioned it’s the inconvenience caused by those transmitting the virus to others, irrespective of the health impacts. IIRC the transmission was as high as R8 for omicron… so one person deciding they don’t want to wear a mask for 10 minutes on a train, or an hour on a plane can stop up to 8 other people from hospital visits, or going to work, or having to stay at home in isolation.

A mask for 10 minutes or 7 days in iso… the former doesn’t seem too much.

 

[N860CR]

As I mentioned it’s the inconvenience caused by those transmitting the virus to others, irrespective of the health impacts. IIRC the transmission was as high as R8 for omicron… so one person deciding they don’t want to wear a mask for 10 minutes on a train, or an hour on a plane can stop up to 8 other people from hospital visits, or going to work, or having to stay at home in isolation.

A mask for 10 minutes or 7 days in iso… the former doesn’t seem too much.

You’re still stuck on the same old argument. Masks have not been proven to be an effective measure. Flashback to Jan when masks were mandatory virtually everywhere and tell me how that went. Your argument remains the same as “I prayed the sun would come up in the morning, and it did, so I was right”.

You seem to have convinced yourself that you can eradicate this virus by wearing a not fit-for-purpose mask.

 

[cwphoto]

A mask for 10 minutes or 7 days in iso… the former doesn’t seem too much.

Total rubbish. We don't need masks nor isolation.

 

[N860CR]

Total rubbish. We don't need masks nor isolation.

That is the next step. And one that is long overdue. As has been the case for the last two years, there’s a real struggle to think outside the box. “Masks prevent infection which prevents isolation”. Ignore the elephant in the room with that… but the virus itself isn’t causing isolation, the policy is. Just as the mask aren’t preventing infection on a meaningful level in airports, it’s just what the policy says.

Here’s a good one; no masks, no testing, if you’re feeling a bit unwell, stay at home until you’re feeling better (you know… as we’ve always done). The hard 7 days is basically as pointless as the masks, but as is often the case, policy can’t keep up with developments.

 

[puchu]

You're confusing policy/politics with science.

Masks in airport is just policy - a rule. Nothing to do with the efficacy or otherwise of masks.

Background on a popular scientific approach is hypothesis testing - where the assumed hypothesis (null) is the baseline of no difference: Statistical hypothesis testing - Wikipedia

I should make myself clear (and I suspect we may be talking at cross purposes). I am familiar with the concept of hypothesis testing and the null hypothesis; while I don’t work in science I did do a biological sciences degree so retain a fair idea of the basics. What I am more concerned about is the concept of how, when forming an argument, one should provide the evidence to back up one’s point. As drron kindly pointed me in the right direction for the evidence, I was fine with accepting the point. Incidentally, I believe in masking up being a personal choice.

 

[OATEK]

Sorry to hear of your father's illness.

Were I in your position, I would definitely have worn an N95 and goggles as more robust protection than others' poorly fitting masks

This is right on the money - do what you need to keep yourself safe, or to ensure a positive outcome. But try doing it for 18hrs on a flight from DRW to LHR - mask and goggles!

But to those who think we should all be doing this on trains and planes, let each person make their own risk assessment now that we have a better understanding of the risks, and that vaccinations make a huge difference.