Worse than feet on bulkheads

The bogan twins.

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I am really sorry but that is disgusting. The male twin on the right slammed his seat back as soon as he finished dinner but the meal trays still not collected. He wasn't happy when my fist accidentally struck the back of his seat. His childish protest didn't last long either.

And that is how rage occurs in an airline cabin confined space.

While I would never recline my seat while the meal service was still happening, it's far more bogan to punch someone's seat than it is to recline your seat at any time. Assaulting people because you don't like their behaviour is as bogan as it gets.
 
But a seat isn't a person.
Actually my pet peeve is the seat basher.A person who doesn't recline but every time they sit down hit the seat with such force it goes backwards.Then at regular intervals leans forward and then launches backwards.When travelling in Y my knees are already touching the seat in front.They get a mouthful when on occasions they say something to me because they feel my knees in the back of the seat.Starts of with"I am not going to cut my knees off just to satisfy your infantile desire to slam your seat backwards.'Depending on the response they will get a little bit more.

So are they assaulting me?
 
you haven't addressed the issue of having a couple of spare seats beside you on the plane and the ability to stretch out... or are we not allowed to do that because our feet are on the seat?

Yes I have. I answered that before you even asked it. If you do a search you will find a post from me where I've said sleeping on seats is not an issue, but when I've done that, I don't have my feet on the seat, they're hanging off the front.

And as MEL_Traveller already pointed out, several of us have already addressed the issue of feet on walls in homes ...
Really? MEL_Traveller stated that his furniture was not conducive to placing feet on walls and you specifically said you wouldn't do it at home, or as a guest in another's home, but you're fine with doing it in an plane. If the issue has been addressed, it's in vivid support of my observations.

You claim the majority of travelers wouldn't put their feet on the bulkhead ...
Don't take my word for it. It's an observation any of us can easily do. I'll even be more definitive and state the majority of people in a bulkhead row do not place their feet up on the bulkhead. Those that do are definitely in the minority.

putting clean feet on a plastic bulkhead - which is neither illegal nor has any effect on people around you ... Feet on a bulkhead is nothing like feet on a tray table or arm rest - you don't eat off the bulk head ... In fact, someone having their feet on a bulk head doesn't affect anyone else in the slightest ... putting your feet up isn't "disrespecting someone's property" - it doesn't hurt the property either.
You seem transfixed with arguing a reason ... legality, hygiene, comfort, not affecting anyone ... however you are missing some points. You (and others) have placed conditions around your "acceptable" solution, that being to wear nice clean, non-smelly fluffy white socks (OK, I know I added a bit more), and to you that's acceptable. Trouble is, those conditions are not being adhered to by many portrayed in the plethora of pictures that adorn the net. So you're OK, but they're heathens, right? No. The reality is that all the pics and posts across the net, indicate that to the majority of travellers it is not the accepted social norm, no matter how hard you attempt to justify it.

It has ZERO effect on anyone else, which I was brought up to understand is the essence of good manners.
Having ZERO effect on anyone is certainly not the basis of social etiquette. Failing to use cutlery to eat, speaking with a full mouth of food, wearing clothes with obscene logos, picking a nose, slurping the very last drop out of a glass, speaking over the top of someone, etc etc are all socially unacceptable antics which has ZERO effect on anyone else, but whether any of us like it or not, we are all judged by these social indicators.

I'm not sure instruction on the correct etiquette pertaining to the occupancy of a bulkhead and/or reclining seat on an airliner is part of the upbringing of a typical child. In fact I would say accepted norms of behavior are rather subjective in general. I would think it is up to the airline to implement regulations dictating what is and isn't acceptable on their aircraft. That way if those regulations don't meet our personal subjective judgements we may travel with an airline whose does.
It's not all that subjective. Children, in general, are brought up to behave in a manner befitting their environment. An airline bulkhead is no different to a wall in a home and I'm confident the vast majority of children (some medical conditions excluded) know whether they should or shouldn't place feet on walls by the time they are about three. An airline can by all means introduce expectations about behaviour aboard their facilities, but that is different to what's being discussed, that being how the general mass view social norms. It was interesting to watch the QF experiment about acceptable footwear choices in some of their lounges. When it happened, the vocal minority ranted and raved about how draconian QF were and how they would not fly them. Now, just a short time later, the fanfare and outrage of those minority has petered and a recent post on this thread actually made the point that most now simply comply. The simple facts are that an establishment can enforce dress rules (nightclubs, lounge bars and clubs have done so since Adam was a boy) and the vast majority of patrons have no issue about compliance. The few who think they're being aggrieved are the ones that then need to make the decision to forego that business or swallow their pride and comply with what's asked of them.

Where is the line?
Quite often when sitting like that I am tall enough that my soles of my feet do rest against the bulkhead. Acceptable or not?
Many bulkheads have a kick zone. Kitchens have kick zones, cupboards have kick zones, hang VA have even included a foot recess in row 3. The lines aren't blurred. If feet are placed up on a bulkhead, they're outside the kick zone, if feet are touching the bulkhead when resting on a place designed for such, they're fine. Even the pic you posted up has a kick zone and it is designed to do exactly as the pax is doing.
 
Where is the line?

The bogan twins as pictured in this thread have crossed the line. Their feet are resting on a screen, for goodness sakes. A different bulkhead traveler with feet at ground level pushing on the bulkhead has not crossed the line. Many of us sit on chairs in offices and other public spaces daily for long periods of time - elevated feet up on a low credenza or bookshelf would be largely unacceptable behavior and so should it be when flying.
 
Yes I have. I answered that before you even asked it. If you do a search you will find a post from me where I've said sleeping on seats is not an issue, but when I've done that, I don't have my feet on the seat, they're hanging off the front.

Obviously you're quite tall then. But do you have a problem with shorter people, like me, having their feet on a seat if they're lying down?

Really? MEL_Traveller stated that his furniture was not conducive to placing feet on walls and you specifically said you wouldn't do it at home, or as a guest in another's home, but you're fine with doing it in an plane. If the issue has been addressed, it's in vivid support of my observations.

Not really. You're deliberately ignoring the bit where we both said that chairs in homes don't typically face walls and we don't force people to sit in them for 12+ hours at a time.


Don't take my word for it. It's an observation any of us can easily do. I'll even be more definitive and state the majority of people in a bulkhead row do not place their feet up on the bulkhead. Those that do are definitely in the minority.

Unless you have some actual data, we're both just arguing from our observations. Mine is that most people on a bulkhead will put their feet up at some point during a flight. Your observation is different. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.


You seem transfixed with arguing a reason ... legality, hygiene, comfort, not affecting anyone ... however you are missing some points. You (and others) have placed conditions around your "acceptable" solution, that being to wear nice clean, non-smelly fluffy white socks (OK, I know I added a bit more), and to you that's acceptable. Trouble is, those conditions are not being adhered to by many portrayed in the plethora of pictures that adorn the net. So you're OK, but they're heathens, right? No. The reality is that all the pics and posts across the net, indicate that to the majority of travellers it is not the accepted social norm, no matter how hard you attempt to justify it.

If you have shoes on, they're dirty. Which is why I'm not arguing that it's ok to put your shoes on anything. I'm not responsible for what other people do, nor am I arguing that people putting shoes on anything is ok, no matter how many pictures there are of it online. However the fact that there are so many photos would indicate that despite your argument that it's not socially acceptable, a lot of people think it is.


Having ZERO effect on anyone is certainly not the basis of social etiquette. Failing to use cutlery to eat, speaking with a full mouth of food, wearing clothes with obscene logos, picking a nose, slurping the very last drop out of a glass, speaking over the top of someone, etc etc are all socially unacceptable antics which has ZERO effect on anyone else, but whether any of us like it or not, we are all judged by these social indicators.

Some of the things you list are unhygienic, which definitely affects other people, some will cause a physical reaction of disgust, which also affects others, and if you think talking over someone doesn't affect them, I question your logic. The basis of etiquette is absolutely being mindful of your impact on those around you - what else would be the point of it?

It's not all that subjective. Children, in general, are brought up to behave in a manner befitting their environment. An airline bulkhead is no different to a wall in a home

Again, it is absolutely different. It's not made of the same materials. And no one is sitting in a cramped chair, with limited ability to move around, facing a wall in a home. If someone had to do that in my home, I'd be more than happy for them to put their clean socks on my wall.


and I'm confident the vast majority of children (some medical conditions excluded) know whether they should or shouldn't place feet on walls by the time they are about three.

Sure, but a bulkhead's not a wall.

An airline can by all means introduce expectations about behaviour aboard their facilities, but that is different to what's being discussed, that being how the general mass view social norms.

And it's very obvious not everyone agrees about this particular "social norm", no matter how many times you repeat that it's a "social norm" - repetition doesn't make it any more of a fact.

It was interesting to watch the QF experiment about acceptable footwear choices in some of their lounges. When it happened, the vocal minority ranted and raved about how draconian QF were and how they would not fly them. Now, just a short time later, the fanfare and outrage of those minority has petered and a recent post on this thread actually made the point that most now simply comply. The simple facts are that an establishment can enforce dress rules (nightclubs, lounge bars and clubs have done so since Adam was a boy) and the vast majority of patrons have no issue about compliance. The few who think they're being aggrieved are the ones that then need to make the decision to forego that business or swallow their pride and comply with what's asked of them.

All true but not at all relevant. If Qantas ever asks me or tells me to take my feet off the bulkhead, I will of course do so. They don't. The only comments I've ever had from flight attendants were that it looked comfortable.
 
Whether or not feet on bulkheads are socially acceptable, the elephant in the room is that I don't think it is an issue that the airline want to be involved in. The cabin crew are busy enough (performing their alloted duties or busy sleeping in the crew compartment).

Its not going to endanger the aircraft. It's allows the said passengers some semblance of comfort. It enhances the value of bulkhead seats through "fines". It might just make the premium cabins more attractive for those who don't find this behaviour acceptable.

Im sure if enough passengers complain they may might take action and regulate it but I dont think the passengers that complain are loud enough or in such significant numbers for this to happen.

The QF lounge dress code implementation notwithstanding...
 
While I would never recline my seat while the meal service was still happening, it's far more bogan to punch someone's seat than it is to recline your seat at any time. Assaulting people because you don't like their behaviour is as bogan as it gets.
Assaulting? LOL. When you find yourself in the situation where the tray table slams against your belly then in that instant you might restrain yourself and reason with the person in front just like they reasoned with you when they slammed the seat back after they finished their meal.
 
Assaulting? LOL. When you find yourself in the situation where the tray table slams against your belly then in that instant you might restrain yourself and reason with the person in front just like they reasoned with you when they slammed the seat back after they finished their meal.

You specifically said that you punched their seat...
 
You specifically said that you punched their seat...
Yes I did. That was the defensive mechanism in play. The person in front had time to reason but made a conscious decision without regard for anyone other than themselves because they were tired to slam seat back into my lap with the tray table and meal tray still there. How would you react? Reason with them?

Even after being told the tray table was in my lap he was still protesting his right to recline because he was tired but did put the seat back up and shut up. No issue for the rest of the flight.

For what its worth feet on bulkheads is not a common occurrence. It is not a nice look.
 
Yes I did. That was the defensive mechanism in play. The person in front had time to reason but made a conscious decision without regard for anyone other than themselves because they were tired to slam seat back into my lap with the tray table and meal tray still there. How would you react? Reason with them?

Even after being told the tray table was in my lap he was still protesting his right to recline because he was tired but did put the seat back up and shut up. No issue for the rest of the flight.

For what its worth feet on bulkheads is not a common occurrence. It is not a nice look.

Your immediate reaction when someone does something that impinges on you is punching? Wow. I guess it's lucky they had the seat between them and you.

No, I wouldn't try to "reason" with someone like that - I also don't punch things, even if I'm particularly upset. I would talk to a flight attendant.

There are a lot of things that aren't a nice look in this world. If I don't like looking at something, I look elsewhere. It's a simple solution that keeps everyone happy.

And I can't think of a flight I've been on in economy where I haven't seen someone with their feet on the bulkhead. So maybe you're seated somewhere else and you simply don't notice it very often.
 
Your immediate reaction when someone does something that impinges on you is punching? Wow. I guess it's lucky they had the seat between them and you.

No, I wouldn't try to "reason" with someone like that - I also don't punch things, even if I'm particularly upset. I would talk to a flight attendant.

There are a lot of things that aren't a nice look in this world. If I don't like looking at something, I look elsewhere. It's a simple solution that keeps everyone happy.

And I can't think of a flight I've been on in economy where I haven't seen someone with their feet on the bulkhead. So maybe you're seated somewhere else and you simply don't notice it very often.

As John said the tray table went into his abdomen.So was JohnK also assaulted?
 
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As John said the tray table went into his abdomen.So was JohnK also assaulted?

I'm sure that was very uncomfortable for him, but generally when someone puts their seat back it's not with the intention of hurting the person behind them, even if that is the accidental outcome. I find it hard to believe, however, that someone's fist just "accidentally" collides with the seat in front of them... even if they do claim it was somehow a "defensive mechanism". Most people don't have a "defensive mechanism" that causes their fist to collide with things. Assault implies a deliberate intention to hurt someone.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way defending people suddenly reclining during meal service. Reclining at all during a meal service is a ****ty way to behave. But as my parents always told me when I was a child, two wrongs don't make a right, and we talk with our mouths, not with our fists.
 
Whenever I recline in my seat, I always ask myself. Is it a guy back there, is it JohnK... and then I recline verrryyyy slowly, just in case.
 
I'm sure that was very uncomfortable for him, but generally when someone puts their seat back it's not with the intention of hurting the person behind them, even if that is the accidental outcome. I find it hard to believe, however, that someone's fist just "accidentally" collides with the seat in front of them... even if they do claim it was somehow a "defensive mechanism". Most people don't have a "defensive mechanism" that causes their fist to collide with things. Assault implies a deliberate intention to hurt someone.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way defending people suddenly reclining during meal service. Reclining at all during a meal service is a ****ty way to behave. But as my parents always told me when I was a child, two wrongs don't make a right, and we talk with our mouths, not with our fists.

Though being in the bulkhead row they are probably not newbies to flying therefore should have known better.It then becomes a deliberate act of b***er anyone behind me.
 
I remember the good old days of people lying on the floor beneath people's feet! That's across the rows, not down the aisles of course. Glad no one tried that on my row - might have got a boot to the groin (inadvertently of course!)
 
Your immediate reaction when someone does something that impinges on you is punching? Wow. I guess it's lucky they had the seat between them and you.

No, I wouldn't try to "reason" with someone like that - I also don't punch things, even if I'm particularly upset. I would talk to a flight attendant.
Sorry Rebekka I am not going to wait for a flight attendant to adjudicate with the tray table in my lap. And this was SQ and it's hard to find the flight attendants outside of meal service. Which reminds me about my interesting experience with a flight attendant on this flight.

Right or wrong that is how I reacted.

There are a lot of things that aren't a nice look in this world. If I don't like looking at something, I look elsewhere. It's a simple solution that keeps everyone happy.

And I can't think of a flight I've been on in economy where I haven't seen someone with their feet on the bulkhead. So maybe you're seated somewhere else and you simply don't notice it very often.
I am in the bulkhead/exit row majority of the time. It is not a common occurrence. It did occur one other time last trip and that was a person seated in the window seat. I have had the person next to me with their legs/feet above parallel. I don't usually say anything but it is a disgusting habit in public. There is nowhere else to look.

If your legs are as sore and swollen as mine then get up and walk around the cabin 3-4 times during long haul flights. Stretch your legs. Get circulation back into the legs. Works for me.
 
Sorry Rebekka I am not going to wait for a flight attendant to adjudicate with the tray table in my lap. And this was SQ and it's hard to find the flight attendants outside of meal service. Which reminds me about my interesting experience with a flight attendant on this flight.

Right or wrong that is how I reacted.

Wow, SQ must have great recline in economy. It's been a long time since I flew with them, they've obviously increased it.


I am in the bulkhead/exit row majority of the time. It is not a common occurrence.

So am I, and in my experience it is common. Maybe we fly different airlines.

It did occur one other time last trip and that was a person seated in the window seat. I have had the person next to me with their legs/feet above parallel. I don't usually say anything but it is a disgusting habit in public. There is nowhere else to look.

There's nowhere else to look other than the feet of the person next to you? Does your neck not work properly? Here are some suggestions - look at your video screen, look at a book, look at your sudoku, look at the bulkhead on the other side of you from the person with their feet up, look at your phone or tablet, or if all else fails and you can't move your neck, put an eyemask on and have a nap or listen to an audiobook or music.

If your legs are as sore and swollen as mine then get up and walk around the cabin 3-4 times during long haul flights. Stretch your legs. Get circulation back into the legs. Works for me.

That's great, glad it works for you. What works for me on long flights is getting a bulkhead seat, putting my feet up and sleeping. If we happen to be on the same flight, you'll just have to deal with looking at my socks, or you can use the helpful list of suggestions above.
 

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