2016 US Presidential Election and Fallout

[vetrade]

Re: Trump to suspend VWP? [No!]

Geez drron, you really have an obsession with Bill Clinton.................

Surely it's reasonable to point out the hypocrisy of your own obsession with Trump. Both Bill Clinton and Obama recognised the importance of restricting border access to the US of people who posed a potential risk to its security, and blocked their entry accordingly. The whingers turn a blind eye to Clinton and Obama but Trump gets criticised for doing the same thing, demonstrating that they don't really care about restricted immigration at all - it's just an excuse to throw a hissy fit when they can't look at the facts rationally.

 

[Vic]

Re: Trump to suspend VWP? [No!]

At least Bush didn't ridicule the disabled. I'm sure how anyone can defend someone that low.

At the end of the day an incompetent president like George W Bush is the reason why we are here today. Trump doesn't like reading anything. This presidency could be really disastrous.

the interesting comparison is that Bush at least seemed to get on with governing the country and focusing on the important issue. Trumps first day was about the number of people who turned up to the swearing in. What was that amendment about again?

So the notion the countries exempted from the list was because of Trump's investments is just BS.Of course this means your dream of him being impeached for this "crime" is just that-a dream.

Still you'd think that he might have expanded the list to include some other terrorist originating countries. He is the president after all. He must have the power to expand the list.

 

[OATEK]

Re: Trump to suspend VWP? [No!]

Still you'd think that he might have expanded the list to include some other terrorist originating countries. He is the President after all. He must have the power to expand the list.

Oh dear, the old damned if he does and damned if he doesn't routine. He used Obama's list [Fullstop]

 

[drron]

Re: Trump to suspend VWP? [No!]

At least Bush didn't ridicule the disabled. I'm sure how anyone can defend someone that low.



the interesting comparison is that Bush at least seemed to get on with governing the country and focusing on the important issue. Trumps first day was about the number of people who turned up to the swearing in. What was that amendment about again?



Still you'd think that he might have expanded the list to include some other terrorist originating countries. He is the president after all. He must have the power to expand the list.

Read the source document.It wasn't about terrorist originating countries.It was suspending visas from countries where there is a concern about the information being supplied.

Sec. 3. Suspension of Issuance of Visas and Other Immigration Benefits to Nationals of Countries of Particular Concern. (a) The Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Director of National Intelligence, shall immediately conduct a review to determine the information needed from any country to adjudicate any visa, admission, or other benefit under the INA (adjudications) in order to determine that the individual seeking the benefit is who the individual claims to be and is not a security or public-safety threat.
(b) The Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Director of National Intelligence, shall submit to the President a report on the results of the review described in subsection (a) of this section, including the Secretary of Homeland Security's determination of the information needed for adjudications and a list of countries that do not provide adequate information, within 30 days of the date of this order. The Secretary of Homeland Security shall provide a copy of the report to the Secretary of State and the Director of National Intelligence.

See,nothing about terrorist nations.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Re: Trump to suspend VWP? [No!]

Because it isn't about terrorist nations, it's about Muslims, but that would be unconstitutional.
Giuliani bells the cat.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ys-and-ordered-a-commission-to-do-it-legally/

 

[Vic]

Re: Trump to suspend VWP? [No!]

Oh dear, the old damned if he does and damned if he doesn't routine. He used Obama's list [Fullstop]

Read the source document.It wasn't about terrorist originating countries.It was suspending visas from countries where there is a concern about the information being supplied.


See,nothing about terrorist nations.

Gee, some around here are a bit touchy. don't know where to look. Sorry for thinking an objective discussion could be held.

the objective part, the bit that says there is no convenient fullstop, is that Trump choose to make a change to the previous actions of Obama and whoever else you've mentioned. Let me repeat: Trump decided to make a change. His actions are his own. My interpretation of his decision is that he wasn't happy with the previous actions by whoever. Trump also clearly stated the reason for his change, his decision to take action, is terrorism. (As we've learned Obama did not take his action because of terrorism.)I'd also opinionate that Trump made his change because he thought the previous action was inadequate.

So if we focus on what has happened now we find that Trump did do this for terrorism and that having decided that something new was required because of terrorism then it would be perfectly reasonable for him to expand the list, because of terrorism. Having decided to change because of previous failures there is no fullstop to only make half a change.

Anyway, I'll leave you lot to your ideology crusades. enjoy

 

[drron]

Re: Trump to suspend VWP? [No!]

Mate it would be an objective discussion if you could present some facts rather than your or journalist's opinions.
The ban is temporary.It is all citizens from those countries not just Muslims.In fact the great majority of muslims are not affected by this suspension of visa processing.
And I did quote you the source document-that is not an opinion but fact.

You mentioned Trump ridiculing the disabled.I presume you mean the NYT reporter-you do realise that wasn't what happened.Trump waved his arms around as he does in many of his interviews and speeches.The reporter's disability is the inability to move easily.Quite the opposite to Trump's actions.

And just to get it clear-I am not a Trump supporter but I am against the distortion of facts.

 

[Isochronous]

Re: Trump to suspend VWP? [No!]

At least Bush didn't ridicule the disabled. I'm sure how anyone can defend someone that low.



the interesting comparison is that Bush at least seemed to get on with governing the country and focusing on the important issue. Trumps first day was about the number of people who turned up to the swearing in. What was that amendment about again?



Still you'd think that he might have expanded the list to include some other terrorist originating countries. He is the president after all. He must have the power to expand the list.

Trump never ridiculed the disabled. That was another hit job by the Fake News mafia.

Media Invented Lie About Trump Mocking Disabled Reporter - Ann Coulter
https://www.catholics4trump.com/the-true-story-donald-trump-did-not-mock-a-reporters-disability/

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Re: Trump to suspend VWP? [No!]

Trump never ridiculed the disabled. That was another hit job by the Fake News mafia.

Media Invented Lie About Trump Mocking Disabled Reporter - Ann Coulter
https://www.catholics4trump.com/the-true-story-donald-trump-did-not-mock-a-reporters-disability/

Um no what you're quoting is fake news and how anyone could quote Ann Coulter as an authority on anything is beyond absurd.
Trump mocked a disabled reporter. He also mocked othger candidates on other occasions.
His words and gestures were similar but not identical. He was definitely mocking the disabled reporter in a way he did not mock others.

 

[Quickstatus]

Re: Trump to suspend VWP? [No!]

Um no what you're quoting is fake news and how anyone could quote Ann Coulter as an authority on anything is beyond absurd.
Trump mocked a disabled reporter. He also mocked othger candidates on other occasions.
His words and gestures were similar but not identical. He was definitely mocking the disabled reporter in a way he did not mock others.

Whats your reliable source

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Re: Trump to suspend VWP? [No!]

Whats your reliable source

The actual videos speak for themselves. No spin required.

however if you want fact checkers try politifact here http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-trump-says-hillary-clinton-wrong-say-he-moc/ or the washington post here https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...id=hp_hp-cards_hp-card-politics:homepage/card

These are as objective and reliable sources as you will find. Unlike either "Catholics for Trump" or Ann Coulter.

 

[get me outta here]

Re: Trump to suspend VWP? [No!]

Maybe this is a reliable enough source:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9hEQKqFgfAg&ebc=ANyPxKramucWpGql-o5R878Co0RSfl3BaEGxLl3HY6fcUkFa5EFhuf0_1quHO_Hl5T412yZ8SX7u-vyuePQiXOeeFtvn_5JW3A

The actual videos speak for themselves. No spin required.

 

[drron]

Re: Trump to suspend VWP? [No!]

The actual videos speak for themselves. No spin required.

however if you want fact checkers try politifact here Donald Trump says Hillary Clinton is 'wrong' to say he mocked a disabled reporter | PolitiFact or the washington post here https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...id=hp_hp-cards_hp-card-politics:homepage/card

These are as objective and reliable sources as you will find. Unlike either "Catholics for Trump" or Ann Coulter.

So quotes from your politifact link-

Last fall, Trump was broadly criticized for appearing to physically mimic New York Times reporter Serge Kovaleski at a campaign rally in South Carolina on Nov. 24. Kovaleski has arthrogryposis, a congenital condition which limits the movement of his joints. The ad shows a photo of the reporter, whose right hand is sharply angled at the wrist.

And-

In an ad from Priorities USA Action, parents of a disabled child said Trump "mocked" a disabled reporter at a campaign rally. Trump did mimic the man’s oddly angled right hand while flailing his arms and shouting in a strange voice. Disabled people and advocates said the candidate clearly was mocking him.

So he mimicked a reporter with decreased movement by flailing his arms around.Sorry just doesn't sound that their conclusion is irrefutable.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Re: Trump to suspend VWP? [No!]

So quotes from your politifact link-


And-


So he mimicked a reporter with decreased movement by flailing his arms around.Sorry just doesn't sound that their conclusion is irrefutable.

If the man had NO arm movement you might have a point.
The video itself is irrefutable. It's not something which is open to interpretation.
And Trump's lies about never having met him are evidence of knowledge of guilt.

 

[Isochronous]

Re: Trump to suspend VWP? [No!]

Um no what you're quoting is fake news and how anyone could quote Ann Coulter as an authority on anything is beyond absurd.
Trump mocked a disabled reporter. He also mocked othger candidates on other occasions.
His words and gestures were similar but not identical. He was definitely mocking the disabled reporter in a way he did not mock others.

Where's your proof that Ted Cruz is disabled? Or the unnamed general?

 

[drron]

Re: Trump to suspend VWP? [No!]

Um no what you're quoting is fake news and how anyone could quote Ann Coulter as an authority on anything is beyond absurd.
Trump mocked a disabled reporter. He also mocked othger candidates on other occasions.
His words and gestures were similar but not identical. He was definitely mocking the disabled reporter in a way he did not mock others.

As you say the videos speak for themselves.
[video=youtube_share;5aYFC_7ZIn4]https://youtu.be/5aYFC_7ZIn4[/video]

 

[vetrade]

Re: Trump to suspend VWP? [No!]

Rather than seeking to be informed many people only look for validation of what they want to be true. Having watched the video clip drron posted, I think an objective observer would find that, while Trump's hand gestures may be awkward, there was nothing specific about them in regards to the disabled reporter, and his explanation was perfectly plausible.

 

[DC3]

Re: Trump to suspend VWP? [No!]

And it seems that Trump's original plan was for a Muslim Ban (i.e., religion-based), which he now denies:

'Rudy Giuliani, the former Mayor of New York, has said President Donald Trump wanted a “Muslim ban” and instructed him to put together a commission to show him “the right way to do it legally ... '. "When [Mr Trump] first announced it he said ‘Muslim ban’. He called me up, he said, ‘put a commission together, show me the right way to do it legally’.”

Donald Trump asked Rudy Giuliani how to ‘legally’ create ‘Muslim ban’, claims former New York mayor | The Independent

 

[Vic]

Re: Trump to suspend VWP? [No!]

As I said: I'm not interested in your ideology crusade.
I said nothing about the intended target of the ban. I made a comment about Trump's actions. As someone who is so keen on fact, an inability to objectively read a post is strange.
Trump is clearly on the record saying this is about terrorism - That is a fact.
Trump is on video clearly pretending to have down syndrome, the hand positioning is clearly different, even in your version with friendly editing - That is another fact.

Like I said mocking the disabled disgusts me - that's my moral position. But don't let my values stop you from defending that behaviour.


anyway, enjoy your angry keyboard bashing.

Mate it would be an objective discussion if you could present some facts rather than your or journalist's opinions.
The ban is temporary.It is all citizens from those countries not just Muslims.In fact the great majority of muslims are not affected by this suspension of visa processing.
And I did quote you the source document-that is not an opinion but fact.

You mentioned Trump ridiculing the disabled.I presume you mean the NYT reporter-you do realise that wasn't what happened.Trump waved his arms around as he does in many of his interviews and speeches.The reporter's disability is the inability to move easily.Quite the opposite to Trump's actions.

And just to get it clear-I am not a Trump supporter but I am against the distortion of facts.

 

[vetrade]

Re: Trump to suspend VWP? [No!]

As I said: I'm not interested in your ideology crusade.
I said nothing about the intended target of the ban. I made a comment about Trump's actions. As someone who is so keen on fact, an inability to objectively read a post is strange.
Trump is clearly on the record saying this is about terrorism - That is a fact.
Trump is on video clearly pretending to have down syndrome, the hand positioning is clearly different, even in your version with friendly editing - That is another fact.

Like I said mocking the disabled disgusts me - that's my moral position. But don't let my values stop you from defending that behaviour.


anyway, enjoy your angry keyboard bashing.

You seem to be the one on an ideological crusade and the one engaging in the angry keyboard bashing, yourself. <redacted>
Many more disappointments await you with that attitude.
The supposed "pretending to have Down Syndrome" is not nearly as obvious to some others as you assert.