A tale of two children (in J)

[MEL_Traveller]

... if anything for the sheer directness that obviously caught me off guard a little.

I accept that! If the mark of a true lady or gentleman is in the way they respond you handled it particularly well But again, I guess maybe there is some sort of cultural element. The Dutch, Germans... well known for their directness for example. Not so much the Brits or perhaps us in Australia. But then I am giving the Dr the benefit of the doubt, based on your recollection of the situation.

 

[Zac_AU]

I will fire up 100% when it comes to infants and kids in premium cabins as I pay for this. If you do not agree just “put up” “shut up” “go hard” or “go home”

Do your kids scream non stop or otherwise terrorise the cabin? If they do, can you explain to me how it is not a selfish attitude and disrespectful to all the other passengers (who are also paying). If they don't, then it's not really an issue is it?

Everyone in a premium cabin is paying for it somehow - why do you think someone with kids who are disrupting everyone around them are more entitled to be there than any of the other paying customers? I'm genuinely interested in the thought process behind this.

Why are you against infant-free sections on planes for people who want to select that option?

 

[33kft]

Why are you against infant-free sections on planes for people who want to select that option?

I would assume because you're intending for the entire premium cabin to be child free, and some paying families don't agree with that approach, nor do the airlines apparently as they find the current approach the most profitable. You couldn't have a commercially viable child zone within the vast majority of aircraft premium cabins, it would just be the equivalent of sitting in another row nearby which is what happens today so the actual proposal is a bit unclear.

Unless the majority of high revenue customers demanded it or it provided significant profit upside, I don't see airlines implementing any cabin changes at all, let alone potentially alienating a proportion of their customer base by denying their purchase of premium cabin seats, especially when those families are (assumedly) purchasing more seats than the aggrieved (assumed) solo travelers that are not in favour of children in premium seats.

(Admittedly this does not take into account the frequency of travel of the aggrieved party here but you'd need high rev passengers walking away entirely as a result before it would take a financial toll on the airline).

 

[mannej]

Why are you against infant-free sections on planes for people who want to select that option?

2 thoughts on this

1) the majority of disruptive pax you hear about in the media are adults.

2) This suggestion is discriminatory. You replace infants with any other subsection of society and I’m sure the mob would be out with their pitchforks and torches...

 

[dajop]

I suspect people are willing to pay for quieter zones, sans children, in economy cabins where seats are a mere 32" apart, or less (front to rear) and immediately adjacent, eg. "ScootInSilence" zone on Scoot 787's. But in the business cabin (apart from the smaller cabin to begin with making it more difficult to implement), the seats are much further apart and privacy greatly increased, therefore noise from fellow passengers less disruptive ... such that reports of disruptive children in business cabins are overblown. Airlines are competing with themselves for "privacy" so if one really wants to minimise potential disruption from children, or adults alike, then one can seek out those airlines that offer suites in F. Or very private arrangements in J.

 

[JohnK]

One of my children would have been a nightmare in J not that we could afford to fly in J when the kids were young. I did feel better travelling in Y with him however. Guess that will rile a few people here too.

My daughter does not sit still. In business she wanders everywhere and is difficult to control. The TG crew loved her and kept her entertained throughout both flights recently.

Our last economy medium haul flight she was fine. Less room, darker cabin she sat still for most of the flight except when she came to spend time with me and I took her for a walk. We're coming back on Emirates in a row of 3 on the 777 and she will be in window seat with her tablet so will be interesting to see how she behaves.

 

[Franky]

7.30am flight? Me, well I would have politely taken the piss in some way. ie Feigned deafness, enquired why he booked a daytime flight.? Or said sure , once they have has their after take off coughtails they should nod right off.

Sorry but with daytime flights people can sleep if they can, but they should not expect a cone of silence unless it is of the Get Smart kind. For such flights it is up to the pax to come prepared with earplugs etc.

Agree - I would have asked him had he been told today?....

 

[Franky]

‘Candy’ is pretty offensive ...

In what context?

 

[Franky]

When half the newspapers in this country use spellings such as 'neighbor', 'color' and 'favorite' then you know you've lost the fight.

In that regard, maybe this thread should be renamed 'A tale of two kids (in J)' ?

When half the newspapers in this country use spellings such as 'neighbor', 'color' and 'favorite' then you know you've lost the fight.

In that regard, maybe this thread should be renamed 'A tale of two kids (in J)' ?

More than a few people on this forum use the word ‘vacation’, which gets up my nose as well...

 

[Bodie]

Firstly- Mrs Bodie and I dont have children.
But here I go. Its often the number of persons effected by actions- being the drunk passenger, the seat kicker, the screaming child/baby - results in comments.
The seat kicker only effects the person in front and possibly their travelling companion. This happened to us on Brisbane Sydney flight. We made the decision not raise it with parents ( it was 3-4yr old responsible ) as it was approximately 25 min to landing. If had been longer flight obviously would have raised it with parents. The drunk passenger - which Mrs Bodie and I had from Singapore to Brisbane. Male was functioning alcoholic. So he annoyed the flight attendant, and about 5-6 passengers- plane was met by AFP on landing. Mrs Bodie made statement as he was almost opposite us. Lastly the screaming child- we had two babies(twins most likely) cry and scream on full jetstar flight from Honolulu to Brisbane the entire flight- 8 hours- its was economy - so how many passengers directly effected effected- 30-50 persons at guess.

The point I was making - is the only enforceable action was taken for drunk passenger - mostly for interaction with flight attendant I expect. Now obviously if the plane had to divert for drunk passenger the entire planeload of passengers effected, but the their would have been consequences for that passenger. What happens to seat kicker and screaming baby- nothing - some sympathy but mostly annoyance, but I expect 30-50 people would remember that flight and tell that story or look hopeful the next time they fly as the walk down the aisle to economy seat and look around to see if the next several hours will be bearable or several hours of hell.

 

[33kft]

The point I was making - is the only enforceable action was taken for drunk passenger - mostly for interaction with flight attendant I expect.

I'm not sure that is a fair interpretation. If I am reading between the lines you're saying that because they inconvenienced the airline staff, they were dealt with harshly. I would hazard a guess that the real reason is because such an individual presents a safety concern and may interfere with the safe operation of the flight, and as a flight attendant's primary concern is the safety of passengers, I suspect that they made an assessment of the situation and had the individual removed after arrival. That's why the police came on board and collected them, and why they don't storm on and arrest children who scream during a flight.

You also seem to have left out the police holding up the plane while a passenger is met at arrival in your passengers affected metric.

 

[Bodie]

We were at rear of aircraft- as soon as two afp came on board and took the passenger to the rear galley- to commence investigation all other passengers were allowed to disembark - via front door as per normal - male was not taken off first- their was no disruption- 40 seconds for police to walk to rear of plane. As soon as door opened AFP boarded . After Mrs Bodie spoke to AFP, we also left the plane as normal.
It was bit more than inconvenience flight attendant - male grabbed at her when she was walking with trolley to rear galley. I didnt see where she was grabbed or touched as my view was blocked as I had window seat. The flight attendant reacted straight away. After landing second flight attendant said they were considering not allowing to him to fly due to his intox at Singapore. I told the second flight attendant expected him to banned from qantas, obviously I dont know what qantas did or are doing.

 

[Forg]

primary concern is the safety of passengers, I suspect that they made an assessment of the situation and had the individual removed after arrival. That's why the police came on board and collected them, and why they don't storm on and arrest children who scream during a flight.

I see where you're going with this … in the same way tools such as Satan (the stick) and Santa (the carrot) are used on children in traditional Western society, children should be raised to fear The Angry AFP and the dire things that will occur to those children if the ire of The Angry AFP is raised? And will the burden of the cost of this training fall upon the AFP themselves, or should the airlines be forced to spread The Angry AFP into pre-schools & schools?
I'm sure Mac Bank will tender for the service of providing funding for very reasonable rates.

I can see how your plan works maybe for post-toddlers & above, but how are we scaring babies into quietness?

Less unseriously; yes, for sure, drunk guy from prior story was removed for safety reasons rather than for disturbance or quietness reasons.

 

[harvyk]

The seat kicker only effects the person in front and possibly their travelling companion. This happened to us on Brisbane Sydney flight. We made the decision not raise it with parents ( it was 3-4yr old responsible ) as it was approximately 25 min to landing. If had been longer flight obviously would have raised it with parents.

Why not tell the parents, even if only a short flight? Remember that children know that if they get caught doing something they shouldn't they will get in trouble, so they can be quite good at hiding their actions from their parents. If a child is doing something genuinely unreasonable let the parent know. If you speak with us parents in a non-judgmental way, using a "just letting you know" tone, we're usually pretty responsive as we don't want our kids acting like little cough's.

We however get the cough's ourselves if people talk to us as if we're personally kicking their seat / doing an unfriendly action.

Lastly the screaming child- we had two babies(twins most likely) cry and scream on full jetstar flight from Honolulu to Brisbane the entire flight- 8 hours- its was economy - so how many passengers directly effected effected- 30-50 persons at guess.

Trust me, as a parent who has had to deal with a meltdown on a flight, your having more fun than us.

 

[blaz]

Even doctors can be narcissists . If I have a problem, I simply put on my noise cancelling earphones and nod off. We were on a Virgin daytime flight to Bali, when the moment the seatbelt light turned off, the "gentleman" in front of my wife lowered his seat. This was annoying, but it was his right, however he became very annoyed when my wife struggled to get out of her seat to visit the loo, accusing HER of being rude and disrupting his sleep...I told him what I thought of his selfish behaviour.

 

[Forg]

Even doctors can be narcissists . If I have a problem, I simply put on my noise cancelling earphones and nod off. We were on a Virgin daytime flight to Bali, when the moment the seatbelt light turned off, the "gentleman" in front of my wife lowered his seat. This was annoying, but it was his right, however he became very annoyed when my wife struggled to get out of her seat to visit the loo, accusing HER of being rude and disrupting his sleep...I told him what I thought of his selfish behaviour.

Was he red-faced, veins bulging, screaming in front of the whole 'plane?
Much the same happened to me, except it was Angry Red Little Man's wife that I jostled during her 1pm nap HBA-SYD - very VERY embarrassing.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

This was annoying, but it was his right, however he became very annoyed when my wife struggled to get out of her seat to visit the loo, accusing HER of being rude and disrupting his sleep...I told him what I thought of his selfish behaviour.

I cannot think of an instance where a passenger - unless elderly or frail - needs to grab the back of the seat in front to get out to the aisle. Passengers can lean backwards and grab the back of their own seat for support, if required.

But back to the original topic, I had lunch today with the mother of a 9-month old. She didn't necessarily see a problem with the Dr's request and considered that perhaps it actually works both ways... she said she'd have no problems asking passengers around her to be mindful of any noise when she's trying to put her infant to sleep on a flight.

 

[Pushka]

The last thing my back likes would be to lean backwards to support me. 9 out of 10 people will grab the seat rest under their noses.

 

[JohnK]

How about in a very crowded Singapore lounge the parents let their children climb over seats, yell across the lounge, sprawl their stuff over multiple chairs whilst others were walking around trying to find seats, running up and back to the buffet (we decided not to eat so we don’t not what was happening there). Not hard to find examples.

Here's an example that annoys the hell out of me and is more childish than a child.

Women who uncontrollably giggle loudly with every word they say after one glass of sparkling. Have you encountered that behaviour? It may not bother some people but bothers the hell out of me. See it quite regularly in lounges. If these women behaved the same way in flight then I wouldn't be able to sleep.

But it's not all women who behave this way. Just like not all children misbehave. My daughter misbehaves like any child but we try to keep her under control. We're not the type with glass in hand ignoring the child. But we're not going to be able to stop her everytime.

 

[The man with no name]

Even doctors can be narcissists . If I have a problem, I simply put on my noise cancelling earphones and nod off.

Please let me know the brand of the amazing headphones you're using that cancels the noise of a screeching baby nearby. I have a pair of Bose QC35 headphones and they certainly won't work on that noise. Usually work ok when people are snoring nearby though.