Abbott in Government

[drsmithy]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

How could they?

They didn't have one or need one. They just did what the Greens told them to do.......

Between them they had as much of the primary vote as the Coalition did last week.

However, the fundamental point here is that any talk of "mandate" without a *massive" proportion (at the very least a supermajority) of primary votes going to one party in both houses, plus the states, is absurd. It's just a word thrown around by those who want to try and pretend people whose opinions they don't like don't deserve to be heard purely because they disagree.

55% of the population didn't vote for the Coalition. Riding roughshod over their desires by claiming "mandate" is simply wrong.

 

[drsmithy]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

There's no evidence he even knew the sign was there.

But that's by the bye. It wasn't Abbott's sign, it wasn't his protest - the totality of the indignation is that "Abbott let himself be filmed". Big deal.

No, actually, the "totality of the indignation" was that by standing up in front of a crowd waving signs around like that (and yelling things similarly distasteful, after being revved up by the usual suspects of far-right-wing hate and outrage), he was given them tacit approval.

Now, I'm sure in your Rudd & Gillard file you have something you think is equivalent. So throw it out there and we'll see how it compares.

Now this doesn't make it the darkest day in Australian politics. Protests typically have strongly worded or outrageous signs and stunts. How many times have we seen politicians hung or burnt in effigy at rallies? An implicit death threat surely trumps even the most spirited name-calling.

Who said it was "the darkest day in Australian politics" ?

As for name-calling, Pauline Hanson copped far worse than Julia Gillard ever did. From the ALP.

Now there's a reasonable comparison. Because if there's on thing Gillard did, it was hold and advocate views as distasteful as Pauline Hanson.

Medhead, you're a reasonable person. Why not cut the hyperbole? It adds heat rather than light here.

Coming from someone who directs hyperbolic vitriol at Kevin Rudd as frequently as you do, that seems rather hypocritical.

 

[drsmithy]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

We have evidence that Gillard accepted some of the Green demands.

Yes. This is called compromise. Something Abbot (and the Coalition in general) have not demonstrated a great deal of interest in or skill at.

As, I am sure, the PPL scheme is aimed at making it easier for people to follow Catholic directives.

The PPL scheme is aimed simply at buying female votes.

 

[drsmithy]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

While Abbot was publicly negative it was still something like 90℅ of all bills passed with Liberal support in Senate.

That's because the policy platforms of Labor and the Coalition are (at least) 90% the same.

No-one has any problems approving something they agree with. It's when there are differences of opinion that the rubber hits the road, and in that arena Abbot (and the Coalition) displayed little capacity to get past "no", unless they were going on to follow up with commentary about how it was the worst thing that could possibly happen to Australia, would destroy the economy, etc, etc.

 

[Skyring]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Just a shame it parallels the most hateful episode in Australian politics. An episode that had the full support of the PM-elect.

My apologies. The most hateful episode in Australian politics, you said. One man waving a sign. That's on a par with just about every other rowdy protest. As I mentioned, death threats, murder, burning in effigy and placards declaring far worse sentiments.

And why shrug aside the long campaign of hate directed at Pauline Hanson? If hate is the yardstick, Pauline copped it far worse.

I don't particularly care to debate political hatred. There's a long history on all sides of politics. What I would like is for you - and others, not excluding myself - to consider the effect of hasty statements on the atmosphere here. We are not in this forum to lob bricks at each other.

 

[amaroo]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Between them they had as much of the primary vote as the Coalition did last week.

However, the fundamental point here is that any talk of "mandate" without a *massive" proportion (at the very least a supermajority) of primary votes going to one party in both houses, plus the states, is absurd. It's just a word thrown around by those who want to try and pretend people whose opinions they don't like don't deserve to be heard purely because they disagree.

55% of the population didn't vote for the Coalition. Riding roughshod over their desires by claiming "mandate" is simply wrong.

Mandate means bugger all. Political survival will dictate policy....always has - always will.

No different to when the Libs/Nats woke up and concluded they had to dump work choices. Labor will come to the same conclusion!

 

[drron]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Much like the Catholic church will tell Abbott how to run the government.

Both Albo and Bill Shorten are Catholics.Will they also be told?

 

[amaroo]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Much like the Catholic church will tell Abbott how to run the government.

Yes, that is a concern and one many of us will be watching.

We've had unions & greens running policy for the past 6 years........the electorate clearly didn't like that!

 

[drsmithy]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

My apologies. The most hateful episode in Australian politics, you said. One man waving a sign.

Seriously, mate following up something like that, with this:

I don't particularly care to debate political hatred. There's a long history on all sides of politics. What I would like is for you - and others, not excluding myself - to consider the effect of hasty statements on the atmosphere here. We are not in this forum to lob bricks at each other.

Is incredibly hypocritical.

 

[drsmithy]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Yes, that is a concern and one many of us will be watching.

We've had unions & greens running policy for the past 6 years........the electorate clearly didn't like that!

Yeah. Unions and Greens running the show.

In a country with a ~15% (and dropping) unionisation rate and some of the highest per-capita greenhouse gas emissions on the planet.

Can you even keep a straight face when you write such comically absurd things ?

 

[straitman]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Yeah. Unions and Greens running the show.

In a country with a ~15% (and dropping) unionisation rate and some of the highest per-capita greenhouse gas emissions on the planet.

Can you even keep a straight face when you write such comically absurd things ?

Thanks for the morning joke drsmithy though there is a jokes thread you could have used.

 

[amaroo]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

My apologies. The most hateful episode in Australian politics, you said. One man waving a sign. That's on a par with just about every other rowdy protest. As I mentioned, death threats, murder, burning in effigy and placards declaring far worse sentiments.

Agreed. Can recall many very ugly episodes including this one Lid lifted on the ugly '80s - National - smh.com.au and the assassination of John Newman John Newman (Australian politician) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Protest rallies with signs, blah....

 

[drron]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Agreed. Can recall many very ugly episodes including this one Lid lifted on the ugly '80s - National - smh.com.au and the assassination of John Newman John Newman (Australian politician) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Protest rallies with signs, blah....

And Don Mackay in the 70s.

 

[amaroo]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

And Don Mackay in the 70s.

In terms of rallies lets not forget the friendly IED that blew up Australia Day 2012:evil:

 

[amaroo]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

In a country with a ~15% (and dropping) unionisation rate

Thats the strange thing about it. Unless the ALP wake up and sniff the change......their primary vote will soon match the unionisation %

They better hurry up and make some changes.....it all starts with the selection of the next leader. If Billy the unionist gets the gong - they've learnt nothing.

 

[mono88]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Mandate means bugger all. Political survival will dictate policy....always has - always will.

No different to when the Libs/Nats woke up and concluded they had to dump work choices. !

Have they????

 

[markis10]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Looks like Palmer is not going to get a go:

[TABLE="class: results, width: 100%"]
TWO CANDIDATE PREFERRED
Polling Places Returned: 45 of 46 Turnout: 92.23%[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #E6E6E6, align: left"]Candidate[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E6E6E6, align: left"]Party[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E6E6E6, align: right"]Votes[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E6E6E6, align: right"]Margin[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E6E6E6, align: right"]This Election (%)[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E6E6E6, align: right"]Last Election (%)[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #E6E6E6"]Swing (%)[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR="class: rownorm"]
[TD="align: left"]PALMER, Clive Frederick[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Palmer United Party[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]41,764[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-18[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]49.99[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]+49.99[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: rownorm"]
[TD="align: left"]O'BRIEN, Ted[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Liberal National Party of Queensland[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]41,782[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]50.01[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.00[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]+50.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[QF WP]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

There's still some mileage in that race with 1,786 postal votes still to be counted.

Regardless of the count, given the press scruitiny of the AEC from the grenades that Palmer is throwing - there may be a re-count.

 

[casanovawa]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Oooh, maybe close but no cigar Clive... either way, no matter how many recounts, if it doesn't end up with Clive getting elected it will be a big conspiracy...

I still don't like the ideas of pencils and no ID at elections... I didn't like it in 2010 and i didn't like it this year...

 

[casanovawa]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Yeah. Unions and Greens running the show.

In a country with a ~15% (and dropping) unionisation rate and some of the highest per-capita greenhouse gas emissions on the planet.

Can you even keep a straight face when you write such comically absurd things ?

Yes, those stats and the ALP getting turfed out quite comprehensively... Sounds like their policies and approach didn't quite align with reality eh...