Abbott in Government

[BadgerBoi]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

I am not playing sides.

Labor needs to get its act together. Shorten is not the way forward.

I wasn't suggesting that you were. IMHO, as I said, Shorten is the right person for this time but likely not to be come the next election.

 

[drron]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

I wasn't suggesting that you were. IMHO, as I said, Shorten is the right person for this time but likely not to be come the next election.

But under the Rudd rules adopted by the ALP he really cant be challenged in the next 3 years.

 

[HarryB]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

But under the Rudd rules adopted by the ALP he really cant be challenged in the next 3 years.

He can quit though.

 

[BadgerBoi]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

But under the Rudd rules adopted by the ALP he really cant be challenged in the next 3 years.

And that means that he won't necessarily lead the party at the next election because...?

 

[drron]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

And that means that he won't necessarily lead the party at the next election because...?

Because he cant be sacked.You are not telling me he is such a wuz as to resign are you?

 

[Hvr]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

And sometimes politicians surprise you when they acknowledge good things done by their political opponents.

I am currently watching Senator Mitch Fifield: Assistant Minister For Social Services address the National Press Club (repeat on ABC24) about the NDIS. He talked about specific Labor party people who pushed the NDIS and what a good job they did and is now talking about how NDIS is core business for the Liberal party.

Here's hoping it all comes to fruition.

 

[drsmithy]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

The current disgraceful and embarrassing mess Badgerboi?
Oh I get it.The one left by the previous government.

No, the "current disgraceful and embarrassing mess" was created by Abbot.

All Governments, past, present and future, have spied, or will spy, on Indonesia. With good reason.

However, the appropriate diplomatic response when they get "caught" doing it is to express shock and amazement that normal intelligence gathering got out of control, and promise it won't happen again. Maybe offer up a sacrificial lamb in particularly egregious cases.

It is most certainly not to enthusiastically admit to it and promise to keep doing it in the future.

 

[amaroo]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

If media reports are correct Tony Abbott would have to do a multi-national sorry tour explaining to leaders around the region that yes, we've been listening to your sweet nothings. Better to just stand up to the truth and hold the line that everyone does it and you need to get over it.

Indo have handle this very poorly - whipping a domestic audience into a wild frenzy to feed an election outcome is shortsighted and stupid.....all they need to do is see how poorly something similar worked here with the OZ day fiasco.

 

[Pukka]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

No, the "current disgraceful and embarrassing mess" was created by Abbot.

All Governments, past, present and future, have spied, or will spy, on Indonesia. With good reason.

However, the appropriate diplomatic response when they get "caught" doing it is to express shock and amazement that normal intelligence gathering got out of control, and promise it won't happen again. Maybe offer up a sacrificial lamb in particularly egregious cases.

It is most certainly not to enthusiastically admit to it and promise to keep doing it in the future.

So basically you're saying he's disgraceful & embarrassing because he won't lie about it.

 

[drron]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

No, the "current disgraceful and embarrassing mess" was created by Abbot.

All Governments, past, present and future, have spied, or will spy, on Indonesia. With good reason.

However, the appropriate diplomatic response when they get "caught" doing it is to express shock and amazement that normal intelligence gathering got out of control, and promise it won't happen again. Maybe offer up a sacrificial lamb in particularly egregious cases.

It is most certainly not to enthusiastically admit to it and promise to keep doing it in the future.

So what did Kevin Rudd do when he was briefed on the phone calls of the Indonesian President in 2009.
Or what did Julia Gillard do when she was briefed in June of this year.
And why did Fairfax think that publishing the content of the Sowden files in July this year was not in the National interest but now the ABC,Fairfax and guardian Australia do not think that way.What has changed?
You know as well as I what's changed.a new Prime Minister that they hate and want to see fail.Self interest over national interest.

 

[Moody]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

So what did Kevin Rudd do when he was briefed on the phone calls of the Indonesian President in 2009.
Or what did Julia Gillard do when she was briefed in June of this year.

I don't know if they were briefed, and if they were then I don't know what their reaction was. Do you know? Is there any relevance to this line of enquiry or are you just trying to shift the blame?

If Despicable T struggles to understand diplomacy then he should butt out of it. JB at least has some idea of how it works. And as for the claim that TA would have to do a grovelling tour of SEA if the tree-huggers had their way ..... well ..... all I can say is don't be so ridiculous. As if Deniable T would stoop so low as to apologise to Malaysia, Indonesia, PNG, etc. about anything he may have done or said in the past!

[Now where's the icon for the sound of a penny dropping?]

And why did Fairfax think that publishing the content of the Sowden files in July this year was not in the National interest but now the ABC,Fairfax and guardian Australia do not think that way.What has changed?
You know as well as I what's changed.a new Prime Minister that they hate and want to see fail.Self interest over national interest.

Yep - and the Jews were the real villains of WW2 and the naz_s were simply misunderstood. But seriously ... anyone who thinks News Limited is balanced and the ABC is biassed deserves all the contempt they are held in. Unless they can prove either case, of course. Can you?

 

[mono88]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

.Self interest over national interest.

Most politicians promote self interest over national interest. Most of the media is the same.

 

[drron]

It was reported in the papers-
Rudd given G20 Indon spy report

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd was the beneficiary of British spying on Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono at the 2009 G20 summit meeting in London, according to Australian intelligence and foreign affairs sources.
Officials familiar with Australia's participation in the April 2009 heads of government meeting said the Australian delegation received ''excellent intelligence support'' including ''much information'' shared by the United Kingdom and the US.

Defence, Intelligence and Information Sharing Division head Richard Sadleir briefed Ms Gillard on June 17, immediately after The Guardian newspaper reported that documents leaked by Mr Snowden had revealed the British signals intelligence agency, the Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ), had employed ''ground-breaking intelligence capabilities'' to intercept the communications.

Parts of the briefing have been redacted to prevent disclosure of information from an Australian intelligence agency exempt from freedom of information laws, and information ''about the collection of intelligence information'' that would ''cause damage to the international relations of the Commonwealth''.

So there is the proof Moody.Fairfax didn't report this in july as it was not in the National interest.

Now where is your proof that TA is hopeless at diplomacy.Sure the leftist media says he is but is there any real proof?

PS Moody.anybody who says this-

Yep - and the Jews were the real villains of WW2 and the naz_s were simply misunderstood. But seriously ... anyone who thinks News Limited is balanced and the ABC is biassed deserves all the contempt they are held in. Unless they can prove either case, of course. Can you?

really doesn't have much of an argument at all.
I await the day that you admit you are biased.Of course I know that day will never come as you are so morally superior to me.

 

[Hvr]

<snip>


So there is the proof Moody.Fairfax didn't report this in july as it was not in the National interest.

<snip>

And here is a rebuttal of your argument on this point from Jonathon Holmes published in The Age:

What's 1000 times more likely is that for staff in The Guardian's undermanned New York office, wading through the hundreds of thousands of documents on Edward Snowden's thumb drives, a four-year-old PowerPoint presentation by Australia's Defence Signals Directorate didn't rise straight to the top of the pile.


When they eventually took a closer look, they alerted head office, who alerted the Guardian Australia in Sydney, who decided the story would have more impact if it got the ABC on board.


If they had known about the document before or during the election campaign, it would have been an even bigger story, because the prime minister then, Kevin Rudd, had been the prime minister in August 2009 when the phone-tapping allegedly took place.

Read more: Sabotage conspiracy theory is one story that won't fly
​

 

[mono88]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

So basically you're saying he's disgraceful & embarrassing because he won't lie about it.

All politicians lie, they don't seem to be embarrassed about it.

 

[drron]

And here is a rebuttal of your argument on this point from Jonathon Holmes published in The Age:

That is no rebuttal.
My point is the SMH would not publish it in july as it was not in the National interest.
The ABC and Guardian Australia have published it.The question is why now does it constitute being in the national interest to publish it?
Doesn't matter when the ABC or Guardian got the info does it.However seeing the SMH article was in July it does raise some doubt about their claims.

 

[amaroo]

The ABC and Guardian Australia have published it.The question is why now does it constitute being in the national interest to publish it?

The ABC are more concerned that everyone now knows that they pay women less than men......pack of whinging, leftist, misogynistic hypocrites.

 

[Hvr]

The ABC are more concerned that everyone now knows that they pay women less than men......pack of whinging, leftist, misogynistic hypocrites.

Well I reckon in that regard they are exactly like the commercial stations who could be described as a pack of whinging, rightist, misogynistic hypocrites. :mrgreen:

 

[BadgerBoi]

Well I reckon in that regard they are exactly like the commercial stations who could be described as a pack of whinging, rightist, misogynistic hypocrites. :mrgreen:

What is the appalling Kyle Sandilands paid as opposed to the abysmal Jacki O, I wonder? I bet that more than one of the RWNs here is a fan of them when they're not singing along with the likes of Alan Jones.

 

[Moody]

It was reported in the papers-
Rudd given G20 Indon spy report


So there is the proof Moody.Fairfax didn't report this in july as it was not in the National interest.

You've really lost me this time, dron. Let me see if I've got this straight ... the link above is to a story published by the SMH (a Fairfax paper) in July this year. It concerns the fact that Australia intelligence officials were receiving information from their US and UK counterparts, including phone logs from people like the then (2009) president of Indonesia. This told us who was talking to who in real time, which an anonymous official said was helpful in the diplomatic argy-bargy required to get Australia a seat on the Security Council.

This all came to light when the Guardian (not a right-wing rag, I think we all agree) released info supplied by Snowden. This was also confirmed by the parts of the briefing given to JG that weren't redacted in the name of national interest.

All pretty standard stuff, and I fail to detect the ABC/Fairfax conspiracy you speak of. Can you explain it to me in simple terms?

Now where is your proof that TA is hopeless at diplomacy.Sure the leftist media says he is but is there any real proof?.

OMG - where do I start???? OK .... how about the excruciating apology tour he went on immediately after gaining office, excusing his denigration of Malaysia as part of the "somewhat rancorous debate" that he and Scum Morrison engaged in for political gain. I see he is still getting his priorities right - ignoring all human rights issues in Sri Lanka so that he can buy favours in stopping the boat people trade. But with his sort the end always justifies the means so I expect no less.

I await the day that you admit you are biased.Of course I know that day will never come as you are so morally superior to me.

Oh I admit to the bias, but I refuse point blank to make up lies to support that bias. It's all part of my moral superiority complex, you see.