ALL QF's 330's to get lay flat Business seating - Including Domestic

[MEL_Traveller]

A fly SQ A330's quite a bit, angle is about the same as Skybed MKI, though on the 777's seems flatter but then again more space too so could be perception or maybe they are using the extra space to make it go flatter.

As for SIN-CGK, still a lottery. Yes it is 773 or 772, but could be regional, old long haul, new long haul, what ever they have lying around at the time. Your right for a 1.5 hour flight it isn't an issue, but does show lack of consistency, which again is something Qantas gets hammered for on this very board.

And even away from that route there is still a lottery if you get new long haul or old long haul on the 777-300's. Only one or two routes have it 'guarantee', but again like Qantas that guarantee can be broken due to operational decisions.

CX not much different either, especially during their fleet upgrades, which is what you expect. But again Qantas gets hammered, not rolling out quick enough, flight lottery. Frankly cannot see how they can do it any quicker. They are upgrading two at a time, one gets done another goes in. Yeah they could pull more aircraft out of service, but then would have to cancel flights and people would whinge.

I can't argue with any of that Not flying SIN-CGK (or indeed any 'ultra' short-haul from SIN) I get the luxury of choosing planes with more certainty.

As for the QF upgrade schedule - I'm not sure as a passenger that's my concern? From MEL all I see is triple daily full flat on CX (and it has been ever since the 'coffins'), compared to single QF with the 'chance' of a new product, otherwise something that's 10+ years old.

Qantas would like me to spend $4000+ to fly with them to Hong Kong/Shanghai/Tokyo in the hope of having a new seat... but it's not working. I think QF should have a rebate/compensation mechanism in place as BA did for New First v Old First. If you arrive at the airport and your flight is old first you get 50,000 avios or $500.

I think it's fair to say QF missed the mark with both their lack of A330 product and their A380 product (seat droop). How much that impacted on their revenues I don't know.

 

[moa999]

And after a false start yesterday, VH-EBK operated QF501 BNE-SYD this morning.

 

[Awesom Andy]

Qantas would like me to spend $4000+ to fly with them to Hong Kong/Shanghai/Tokyo in the hope of having a new seat... but it's not working.

But that's exactly the same when SQ or CX just started their upgrades, and I'm sure it's also exactly the same across every other airline that has upgraded their fleet.

 

[moa999]

Qantas would like me to spend $4000+ to fly with them to Hong Kong/Shanghai/Tokyo in the hope of having a new seat... but it's not working. I think QF should have a rebate/compensation mechanism in place as BA did for New First v Old First. If you arrive at the airport and your flight is old first you get 50,000 avios or $500.
.

You can't do every plane at once.
From memory the BA rebate only began once the bulk (think 75/80% of fleet had been completed)

 

[amaroo]

You can't do every plane at once.
From memory the BA rebate only began once the bulk (think 75/80% of fleet had been completed)

Correct. We got stung with a few OF cabins and just had to suck it up...

 

[MEL_Traveller]

But that's exactly the same when SQ or CX just started their upgrades, and I'm sure it's also exactly the same across every other airline that has upgraded their fleet.

Agree with that - but when the product you're introducing is new/cutting edge - there's perhaps a slight difference?

When SQ/CX/BA introduced flat beds 10-15 years ago it was a new concept. So we waited and tracked the implementation.

QF is coming to this 10+ years late. Then another 2-3 years for implementation.

It's not just QF in this boat - there are plenty of others including JL/LH/AA/AF and KL. But even the US carriers have now pretty much got all their wide-body long hauls in new full flat seating.

 

[mannej]

But that's exactly the same when SQ or CX just started their upgrades, and I'm sure it's also exactly the same across every other airline that has upgraded their fleet.

Don't forget that CX have been prone to late aircraft swaps regardless of fleet upgrades - A nice lie-flat product on a HKG-TYO run for example may change into the regional product at the gate. Yes it may be a flight of ~4hours or so, but not that dissimilar to a PER-SYD/MEL run.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Don't forget that CX have been prone to late aircraft swaps regardless of fleet upgrades - A nice lie-flat product on a HKG-TYO run for example may change into the regional product at the gate. Yes it may be a flight of ~4hours or so, but not that dissimilar to a PER-SYD/MEL run.

Indeed - but that doesn't affect long-hauls, or even long-haul regional (Australia for example). BKK/SIN/TPE are all affected by equipment subs. PEK/PVG/TYO (F) services are generally protected.

 

[ajw373]

It's not just QF in this boat - there are plenty of others including JL/LH/AA/AF and KL. But even the US carriers have now pretty much got all their wide-body long hauls in new full flat seating.

The A330's are not long haul. They are a regional aircraft. So the product in them is better than SQ regional and CX regional which isn't even a bed. Airlines you have been holding up as shining lights.

 

[TomVexille]

The A330's are not long haul. They are a regional aircraft. So the product in them is better than SQ regional and CX regional which isn't even a bed. Airlines you have been holding up as shining lights.

Are you saying that the a330 isn't a longhaul aircraft? Or that QF don't use them as a long haul aircraft?

 

[ajw373]

Are you saying that the a330 isn't a longhaul aircraft? Or that QF don't use them as a long haul aircraft?

The way Qantas is using them. Flights to Asia are NOT long haul by any stretch of the imagination. No doubt someone will say Wiki says long haul is 6-12 hours, but seriously it isn't. 8 hours maybe, 10 hours yes.

The only reason why SOME carriers have long haul configured aircraft on SOME routes to Australia is because of the through traffic. SQ for example why fly long haul configured a/c ex SYD and MEL and indeed so do CX. It provides customers long haul end to end, but that flight to Aus is hardly long haul.

 

[TomVexille]

The way Qantas is using them. Flights to Asia are NOT long haul by any stretch of the imagination. No doubt someone will say Wiki says long haul is 6-12 hours, but seriously it isn't. 8 hours maybe, 10 hours yes.

The only reason why SOME carriers have long haul configured aircraft on SOME routes to Australia is because of the through traffic. SQ for example why fly long haul configured a/c ex SYD and MEL and indeed so do CX. It provides customers long haul end to end, but that flight to Aus is hardly long haul.

Just checking

And I don't think you're wrong there. I would want a long haul product the entire way if I was flying to Europe for example. Unfortunately for QF this means they need a long haul product to compete.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The A330's are not long haul. They are a regional aircraft. So the product in them is better than SQ regional and CX regional which isn't even a bed. Airlines you have been holding up as shining lights.

Perhaps I'm using a different definition of 'regional'. Regional to me = flights 2-4 hours - anything where there's not enough time to have a good sleep (ie at least 3 hours block time excluding climb, decent, cup of coffee).

I don't consider New York - London 'regional'. Nor East Coast AU to BKK/HKG/Tokyo/PVG/HNL (all around 9 hours or more). So I want a full bed for those flights (day or night makes no difference to me).

Hong Kong to SIN or DPS is about as far as I would consider 'regional'.

A330s/332s probably aren't considered long haul aircraft (although the A340 is) - but they're used as such by a lot of airlines.

 

[moa999]

I tend to agree with your definition. QF had dropped behind with its medium haul (6-12hr) A330 SkyBedI product - the Business Suite gets it back with the leaders.

But by using the same aircraft on Perth routes (which I would define as regional ie 3-6hrs) it is definitely market leading

(Only exception would probably be when CX schedules an aircraft with First seating on HKG-TPE)

 

[maninblack]

Definitions! I say anything 8+ is a long flight. Long haul if you want or whatever you want it to mean. HNL - SYD is nearly 11 hours. QF did use their first international configured A332's AKL-LAX, that's a long haul!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Definitions! I say anything 8+ is a long flight. Long haul if you want or whatever you want it to mean. HNL - SYD is nearly 11 hours. QF did use their first international configured A332's AKL-LAX, that's a long haul!

Regional is a somewhat 'newish' term, more as a descriptor limiting the service offering (hard or soft), rather than describing the length of the flight.

In the US - 'regional' = regional jet. You know it's gonna be tiny and uncomfortable. In Asia, 'regional' means you're gonna get big plane that looks like it will be comfortable, but it's actually high density.

 

[ajw373]

Perhaps I'm using a different definition of 'regional'. Regional to me = flights 2-4 hours - anything where there's not enough time to have a good sleep (ie at least 3 hours block time excluding climb, decent, cup of coffee).

Regional I was talking product not distance. So to me Qantas has short haul, essentially the domestic 737 fleet, regional the A330's and long haul the 747/A380's.

Distance I use short haul, medium haul, long haul and ultra long haul.

To me short is up to 4-5 hours.
Medium up to 8-10
Long haul up to 12-14
Ultra over 14+

 

[moa999]

Reported on yssy that VH-EBI has quietly left the first, operating QF19 to MNL with no return QF20

Means 17 A330-200s in QF colours with EBE still with JQ for about 10 days more and EBF due out of maintenance shortly

-- 330-200 non-refurb configs remaining
2 - Intl with SkyBed I, RC AVOD - EBG, EBL
4 - Dom with J workbench, Panasonic AVOD - EBO, EBP, EBQ, EBR
2 - Dom with 2x2x2 J, Panasonic AVOD - EBM, EBN
2 - Dom with 2x2x2 38 seats, QStreaming iPads- EBC, EBD
10 - Subtotal
+2 Still with JQ / being refurbed, no AVOD - EBE, EBF
12 Total

 

[maninblack]

Regional I was talking product not distance. So to me Qantas has short haul, essentially the domestic 737 fleet, regional the A330's and long haul the 747/A380's.

Distance I use short haul, medium haul, long haul and ultra long haul.

To me short is up to 4-5 hours.
Medium up to 8-10
Long haul up to 12-14
Ultra over 14+

On this basis how will you categorise 789's as they may be used for medium, long and ultra?

 

[2tall4Y]

Reported on yssy that VH-QPI has quietly left the first, operating QF19 to MNL with no return QF20

Do you mean VH-EBI? QPI I believe is a refurbed A330-300...