AMEX not accepted or surcharge

[zzyss]

I think the rationale is always going to boil down to: "nobody carries ONLY an Amex card anyway" so they may as well try and claw back the % difference in rates, without thinking that a customer would ever have a payment method in mind BEFORE the decision-making purchase. In theory, that could very well be true depending on the type of goods, similar to what ChrisCh was saying - impulse buys would definitely benefit from the strategy. Pre-mediated buys like cars, shopping-list groceries not so much.

 

[ChrisFlyer]

I actually like your post ChrisCh and take no offence at all. In fact I do take Amex but certainly know several small business owners that do not for the reasons I outlined. Whilst I understand retailers "clearing" stock and accepting something at times even nothing to move those items, I was really alluding to regular retail pricing. I stand by what I said about letting customers walk as I am sure even Woolworths would if I suddenly decided to offer them say 5% less when I got to the checkout. Interestingly I will ring my dentist today and ask if they will see me for "no gap" checkup and clean as I have found a dentist down the road that will. I bet they send me on my way.

I think the rationale is always going to boil down to: "nobody carries ONLY an Amex card anyway" so they may as well try and claw back the % difference in rates, without thinking that a customer would ever have a payment method in mind BEFORE the decision-making purchase. In theory, that could very well be true depending on the type of goods, similar to what ChrisCh was saying - impulse buys would definitely benefit from the strategy. Pre-mediated buys like cars, shopping-list groceries not so much.

You both make some great points, and I'm glad that my post didn't come across the wrong way!

On another note, I had an interesting experience at the Hard Rock Cafe in Darling Harbour (Sydney) last night. They show the Amex logo online, have no mention of a surcharge on the menu, and presented the bill in an Amex folder.

I handed the card over, and after taking a few steps, the waitress quickly turned around to say that there would be a 3% surcharge. I politely asked if she wouldn't mind showing me where it was mentioned on the menu (as I didn't see it, but was willing to admit defeat if my eyes had skipped over it). She said that it wasn't written on the menu, to which I replied that the law requires them to declare any surcharges before a transaction is entered into (ie. before we eat, such as on the menu). She immediately went to get 'the manager' (without me prompting).

I told her the same thing, and she promptly offered to waive the surcharge without argument (and without throwing in any 'just this time' comments). It was a very polite exchange (quickly changing to 'how was everything?'-type discussion), and admittedly the manager handled everything well after my complaint. It almost seemed as though this wasn't news to her...

That said, they should either reprint the menus with the surcharge information, or abolish it (as a chain of their size could surely negotiate a reasonable fee)! I'm about to do the usual Amex report - we'll see what they say!

 

[Ewing]

I think the rationale is always going to boil down to: "nobody carries ONLY an Amex card anyway" so they may as well try and claw back the % difference in rates, without thinking that a customer would ever have a payment method in mind BEFORE the decision-making purchase.

Personal sure, but plenty of corporates including the one I'm at now the only option is AMEX.

If I need to put something on the corporate card and you don't take AMEX, I will walk.

 

[zzyss]

You're absolutely right. This is the situation I have been in from 2 employers for more than a decade.

Still, I have had places argue that I could pay some other way and claim it back as a business expense - usually citing petty cash-type scenarios as example.

 

[pauly7]

Sign at my butcher:

'We accept all cards, Amex included but would prefer Visa/MC where possible due to higher fees charged by Amex'

Thought that was an interesting, nicer way perhaps to deal with it!

 

[Moopere]

Personal sure, but plenty of corporates including the one I'm at now the only option is AMEX.

If I need to put something on the corporate card and you don't take AMEX, I will walk.

Same here. Corporate is Amex and there is no wavering from that. I will cause myself any amount of grief with finance if I pay by some other means and try to claim it back. Those businesses which have flexible payment methods get the business, its really that simple.

But there is no ultimate right or wrong in any of this discussion. Any business is perfectly within their right to have a cash only policy for example - its all fine, so long as they realize the impact such policies are likely to have on their customer base.

 

[farstar]

I think the rationale is always going to boil down to: "nobody carries ONLY an Amex card anyway" so they may as well try and claw back the % difference in rates, without thinking that a customer would ever have a payment method in mind BEFORE the decision-making purchase. In theory, that could very well be true depending on the type of goods, similar to what ChrisCh was saying - impulse buys would definitely benefit from the strategy. Pre-mediated buys like cars, shopping-list groceries not so much.

As far as my company is concerned I only carry an Amex so I always check with retailer first and walk if they don't except.

 

[Sherwyn Vaz]

Not accepting Amex is the least of Myki's problems....

Topping up your myki at a 7-11 might be a fix. Think they accept amex
Provided theres no surchage of course

 

[RichardKopf]

As far as my company is concerned I only carry an Amex so I always check with retailer first and walk if they don't except.

Or they DO except.

 

[ChrisFlyer]

Topping up your myki at a 7-11 might be a fix. Think they accept amex
Provided theres no surchage of course

I've done this before in Melbourne - works a treat!

 

[MrDemister]

I've done this before in Melbourne - works a treat!

Tried this recently in the city with a plat edge amex and it didn't work. How long ago did you get it to work?

 

[ChrisFlyer]

Tried this recently in the city with a plat edge amex and it didn't work. How long ago did you get it to work?

A couple of months ago... I usually look for the Amex logo on the 7 Eleven door first, and then say that I'm paying EFTPOS (no mention of Amex). Has worked at the Southern Cross Station store, among others.

Most of them have ANZ terminals (which are usually running older software that doesn't support Amex chips and contactless), so if you have one of these cards, you first need to insert it, wait for it to say "chip application not supported", and then wait a few more seconds for it to say "swipe card". You can then swipe, and enter a PIN or choose to sign as usual.

If you have a bank-issued Amex, then just swipe!

 

[GoldCanyon340]

I think the rationale is always going to boil down to: "nobody carries ONLY an Amex card anyway" so they may as well try and claw back the % difference in rates, without thinking that a customer would ever have a payment method in mind BEFORE the decision-making purchase. In theory, that could very well be true depending on the type of goods, similar to what ChrisCh was saying - impulse buys would definitely benefit from the strategy. Pre-mediated buys like cars, shopping-list groceries not so much.

I only have an Amex. I only have ever had an Amex. Never owned a credit card, never will. When I encounter the surcharge issue at a restaurant then I politely tell them that the surcharge is the tip. It's not arrogant, it's my singular attempt at reversing the surcharge policy. Note that this only applies in Australia as NZ generally has no issue with accepting Amex.

 

[The Rok]

I only have an Amex. I only have ever had an Amex. Never owned a credit card, never will. When I encounter the surcharge issue at a restaurant then I politely tell them that the surcharge is the tip. It's not arrogant, it's my singular attempt at reversing the surcharge policy. Note that this only applies in Australia as NZ generally has no issue with accepting Amex.

All that does is hurt the individual who just bent over backwards to ensure you enjoyed your meal, not the fat cat cheap skate who owns the restaurant but won't accept Amex because if might drop his already ludicrous margin on 25% of his income they might get paid by amex by maybe 2%....

 

[lovestotravel]

All that does is hurt the individual who just bent over backwards to ensure you enjoyed your meal, not the fat cat cheap skate who owns the restaurant but won't accept Amex because if might drop his already ludicrous margin on 25% of his income they might get paid by amex by maybe 2%....

Restaurant owners are generally not fat cats
Margin are wafer thin in lots of restaurants
If the individual doesn't like the working conditions they are free to leave
If the individual gets constant feedback that customers are annoyed about not being able to use Amex then they can let the Manager/Owner know
I don't tip in restaurants in Aus that won't accept Amex, it's just what I do
I rarely return to restaurants that won't accept Amex
I generally make a big issue of it when dealing with the Manager/Owner/Front of house staff and mention that it's very disappointing that Amex is not accepted

I am usually just told "it costs too much to accept" OR "we used to accept it and then stopped"

As I and others have said, I would guess that 99% of people just pay using another card/cash. In-fact the number of people that pay cash in a restaurant amazes me, I find it annoying when I see a group getting all their cash together, and then paying the bill which can be thousands. I am sometimes tempted to take the cash and pay on my card even though I don't know anyone in the group. Of course if I am part of a group going out for dinner I always try to get as much cash off people as possible and then pay on the card.

My Amex give me 3 points per $1, so that's a 12% return on my spend there, VS less than 1% when using my Mastercard so I will go out of my way to ensure I pick restaurants that accept Amex

 

[Buzzard]

This whole AMEX thing is a very interesting topic. "We" like to use AMEX for the bonus received - extra points, some business owners don't accept AMEX for the exact opposite reason - extra fee charged by the merchant. Those extra points have to be paid for somehow, they are not free. Some businesss owners I know have just put their prices up marginally across the board to cover the AMEX impost and just accept AMEX no questions asked. What this means however is even those paying cash pay more.

As both a business owner and consumer I can see both sides to this discussion. As a business owner I like to offer the best price that I can. Margins are very tight on some things - as low as 5.5% including GST. As a consumer I like to use my AMEX but never object when a merchant decides not to accept it. As a consumer I have no objection paying a reasonable surcharge when using any credit card (Qantas charge is not reasonable IMHO) as it is my choice to use it or not.

For the record my business does accept AMEX. Like any well run (hopefully) business, my prices where I am able to set them, allow for ALL my operating costs, including various credit card fees I have to pay to merchants.

 

[lovestotravel]

There is a cost to cash handling too, it's not "free' just because it's cash

Cash goes missing
Cash needs to be counted/stored
Cash has to be taken to the bank
Cash can be stolen

There should be no charges for any credit cards, just absorb the cost into the business, charge $1 extra on every main meal for example

It's not that hard.....

 

[Buzzard]

There is a cost to cash handling too, it's not "free' just because it's cash...........


There should be no charges for any credit cards, just absorb the cost into the business.........

It's not that hard.....

And that is exactly what I have done in my business, as stated in my post above.
I think the problem for most businesses is that they dont see the cost of cash as it may not be something easy to measure. Perhaps they don't see it as a cost because it is time (eg going to the bank) and until cash becomes extinct a trip to the bank will always be required. I wonder if anybody has calculated the % cost of cash? Is it as high as what AMEX charge? Is it higher?
With merchant fees you get a bill so you can actually see what it has cost to accept those cards.

 

[lovestotravel]

I look after a few small business operations

1. Predominately cash, now it's 80% credit cards and 20% cash - No Amex accepted but there is no demand for it, but we do charge 1% for credit cards..

2. 50/50 cash/credit cards and demand for Amex was high so we introduced amex, we charge 1.1% for VI/MC and 2% for Amex which is pretty much what we are charged

I personally wouldn't shop at business number 2 due to the credit card surcharges and that I can get the same products elsewhere!

 

[MrDemister]

A couple of months ago... I usually look for the Amex logo on the 7 Eleven door first, and then say that I'm paying EFTPOS (no mention of Amex). Has worked at the Southern Cross Station store, among others.

Most of them have ANZ terminals (which are usually running older software that doesn't support Amex chips and contactless), so if you have one of these cards, you first need to insert it, wait for it to say "chip application not supported", and then wait a few more seconds for it to say "swipe card". You can then swipe, and enter a PIN or choose to sign as usual.

If you have a bank-issued Amex, then just swipe!

Hmm the terminal was just not accepting my amex. I'll have to give it another try. cheers.