Ask The Pilot

[jb747]

These days recruits are being promoted to F/O in some bases from day one, and in all bases within about 12 months. You’re only going to be in an S/O role for a long period of time if you choose to be.

I'd be very surprised if that is on widebody.

 

[AviatorInsight]

I'd be very surprised if that is on widebody.

They definitely wouldn’t allow that. It’s on the 737. A mate of mine just got to A330 FO after 7yrs in the back seat.

 

[Rabs97]

I'd be very surprised if that is on widebody.

You know there’s more than just widebodies in the airline now?

Point being a promotional opportunity is available to pilots to be an F/O in mainline very soon after commencement.

 

[Rabs97]

They definitely wouldn’t allow that. It’s on the 737. A mate of mine just got to A330 FO after 7yrs in the back seat.

Actually the requirements to be promoted from S/O to F/O on a widebody are not dissimilar to being promoted to 737 F/O (just need an ATPL to be able to relieve the Captain whilst on a rest break).

The reason why it took 7 years for your friend to be upgraded to 330 FO was because that was when their seniority allowed them to get a position on that aircraft, because that’s the usual wait to have seniority for that position.

But hypothetically say if the airline underwent rapid expansion and the LH FO slots dropped very junior then as long as the new hires met the ATPL minimums they’d be considered for as a widebody FO (ie they would not have to do a minimum number of years as an SO before being “allowed” to be a wide body FO).

 

[jb747]

You know there’s more than just widebodies in the airline now?

Whilst I’m aware of that, it’s something I try to keep out of my mind as much as possible.

Point being a promotional opportunity is available to pilots to be an F/O in mainline very soon after commencement.

Actually there often has been. But, because of the accordion-like nature of recruitment, retirements, and promotions, all short term opportunities tend to be followed by long periods of stagnation. 7 years to wide body command is the shortest I know of.

Actually the requirements to be promoted from S/O to F/O on a widebody are not dissimilar to being promoted to 737 F/O (just need an ATPL to be able to relieve the Captain whilst on a rest break).

Which isn’t much if you say it fast. But the ATPL comes with its own set of hours requirements, in (1,500 hours, and 500 PIC), with the later potentially causing issues.

But hypothetically say if the airline underwent rapid expansion and the LH FO slots dropped very junior then as long as the new hires met the ATPL minimums they’d be considered for as a widebody FO (ie they would not have to do a minimum number of years as an SO before being “allowed” to be a wide body FO).

I haven’t looked at the company docs in some time, but they did include hours requirements for long haul FOs, which specially mentioned flight time within the airline. Obviously they can change the rules as they wish, but the intent was to preclude low hours people from ever being left in charge whilst the Captain had a break. I suspect that if they were forced in that direction, their use of junior Captains might change.

Beyond that, I’m not sure that “rapid expansion” is something that QF is likely to see again. The 767’s introduction was that last burst of that particular bubble.

 

[Rabs97]

Which isn’t much if you say it fast. But the ATPL comes with its own set of hours requirements, in (1,500 hours, and 500 PIC), with the later potentially causing issues.

Hasn’t been just 500hrs PIC for ATPL for a while. It can also be 70hrs PIC as long as there’s also some ICUS (basically multi crew FO) time as well.

Getting an air transport pilot licence (ATPL)

Information on how to get an air transport pilot licence (ATPL), which lets you pilot or co-pilot any private or commercial operation.

www.casa.gov.au

I haven’t looked at the company docs in some time, but they did include hours requirements for long haul FOs, which specially mentioned flight time within the airline.

It’s changed. There’s some of those requirements for Command but not LH F/O, which is the same as SH F/O + ATPL minimums.

Beyond that, I’m not sure that “rapid expansion” is something that QF is likely to see again. The 767’s introduction was that last burst of that particular bubble.

Commands now down to 8 years. And yes a 737 command is a real command.

I’m also intrigued by this comment, given narrowbodies were integrated into the airline’s fleet 30 years ago:

Whilst I’m aware of that, it’s something I try to keep out of my mind as much as possible.

 

[jb747]

Hasn’t been just 500hrs PIC for ATPL for a while. It can also be 70hrs PIC as long as there’s also some ICUS (basically multi crew FO) time as well.

Yes, 70 PIC, but with 250 ICUS. It would be a very cheeky FO who logged his normal flight time as ICUS.

Commands now down to 8 years. And yes a 737 command is a real command.

Ah...Ok.

I’m also intrigued by this comment, given narrowbodies were integrated into the airline’s fleet 30 years ago:

Whilst I’m aware of that, it’s something I try to keep out of my mind as much as possible.

I guess you had to be there, and I'm assuming that you weren't. The integration was anything but a smooth process, and brought it's own hostilities with it.

 

[Rabs97]

I guess you had to be there, and I'm assuming that you weren't. The integration was anything but a smooth process, and brought it's own hostilities with it.

Looks like well over 90% of current mainline pilots joined ‘94 onwards (post integration).

Yes, integrating seniority lists is a hard task and it’s hard to please everyone but it was ultimately for the best as it’s allowed the vast majority of pilots who were employed since then to take opportunities in both LH and SH for career progression and satisfaction.

 

[ChrisGibbs]

https://www.9news.com.au/national/be...5-b0464d021729

Very sad news...

Gary Criddle

ex QF 767, 747, 380, 737
ex RAAF - CFS, Roulettes, Macchi, CT-4
ex RAN - S-2 Pilot

Ran across Gary on many flights over the years, He was always happy to chat.

 

[jb747]

I'm not quite sure how to write about Gary. He was just about my best friend, if such a thing exists.

He really was the consummate professional. He was a ship driver before his pilots' course, and had a patrol boat command. He duxed his pilots' course, and was somewhat peeved not to be posted to the A-4. Vagaries of the postings, but he would have done well there. But he went to the Tracker world, where his crews thought the world of him (had a chat to one of his Taccos this afternoon). We did the RAAF instructors' course together, and he was my boss for my first year at Pt Cook. Then he went back to world of ships, where he was XO on HMAS Jervis Bay. From there he went back to flying as staff at CFS. I'd joined QF by this time, and was trying to talk him into joining me, but he chose the National Safety Council instead. Whilst this ultimately proved to be a bad move, he greatly enjoyed the sort of flying he got there. Eventually he followed me to QF, but by then things had slowed down somewhat, which meant that I got a command years ahead of him. And that meant he was often rostered with me as my FO. And that was always fun. Command came his way on the 767, and he enjoyed that until the aircraft retired. He wasn't senior enough to get a 330/747/380 command, so chose to head to the 380 as an FO. He didn't love the French lady, but I was able to enjoy a trip with him there. Age was starting to catch up, so he made the move to the 737 to both regain his command, and to enable staying beyond 65.

Whilst all of this QF stuff was happening, he was an avid flyer in the GA world, and had a number of businesses there. He was endorsed by CASA in just about everything, and spent a lot of time teaching others how to instruct and test.

In a career as long as mine, not many trips really stand out. It's funny that many that do, involve Gaz.

We often say people will be greatly missed....but in his case it's true.

 

[ChrisGibbs]

@jb747 - great words. Thank you. My thoughts are with Gary’s family and also those like you who knew Gary well.

You wrote to me many years ago that ‘Aviation is an unforgiving mistress..’

My son is at RAAF Sale on 1FTS Course 143 completed ground school and into his flight training. He said there are a lot of people stopping by the CFS pictures that included Gary..

 

[Nitw]

Hi crew,

I'm a high school teacher in QLD. Have a year 10 student interested in becoming a pilot for his career, we live near Toowoomba which has a university degree/qantas flight school. My question is; would the university degree have any benefit for him? Or is there a better way he should look at becoming a pilot?

 

[flyer89]

A mate flew with him just the other day on the 737 and I knew of him too.

He fell truly into the top bloke category and when we slip the surly bonds isn’t it all we could ever ask to be remembered as?

 

[jb747]

I'm a high school teacher in QLD. Have a year 10 student interested in becoming a pilot for his career, we live near Toowoomba which has a university degree/qantas flight school. My question is; would the university degree have any benefit for him? Or is there a better way he should look at becoming a pilot?

You ask a surprisingly difficult question, because there is no 'best route'....just the one that happened to work.

Probably the best is the RAAF. If you can get into the academy (ADFA), and then pilots' course you'll have both a degree, and flying career, and you'll have been paid to do it. It's basically the best training that money can't buy. They are extremely selective, and very willing to cull, so getting to the far side is a huge hurdle. But people do it, just look at the post above yours.

Things you need to be aware of though. Most people who start the journey to becoming a professional pilot do not complete it. Whilst it's easy enough to learn to fly at a basic level, as you push onwards the standards become tighter, and it simply leaves many behind. Whilst this is especially the case with the military, the civil world is similar. Unless someone else is paying the way, the finances are extremely difficult.

My advice has always been to get a degree that will feed you, when the flying turns out to be illusory. I flew with numerous pilots with science or engineering degrees, and to be honest I consider them far more useful than aviation degrees.

My understanding of the Qantas school is that it's quite expensive, and selective. But at the end of it you don't have a guaranteed avenue into QF itself, but rather to the offshoots, such as QLink and perhaps Jetstar. There is no avenue from there to mainline that I know of. So basically it's a way of getting you to pay for training for subsidiary airlines that aren't necessarily all that popular. But, like everything in aviation, this could change.