Ask The Pilot

[jb747]

These days recruits are being promoted to F/O in some bases from day one, and in all bases within about 12 months. You’re only going to be in an S/O role for a long period of time if you choose to be.

I'd be very surprised if that is on widebody.

 

[AviatorInsight]

I'd be very surprised if that is on widebody.

They definitely wouldn’t allow that. It’s on the 737. A mate of mine just got to A330 FO after 7yrs in the back seat.

 

[Rabs97]

I'd be very surprised if that is on widebody.

You know there’s more than just widebodies in the airline now?

Point being a promotional opportunity is available to pilots to be an F/O in mainline very soon after commencement.

 

[Rabs97]

They definitely wouldn’t allow that. It’s on the 737. A mate of mine just got to A330 FO after 7yrs in the back seat.

Actually the requirements to be promoted from S/O to F/O on a widebody are not dissimilar to being promoted to 737 F/O (just need an ATPL to be able to relieve the Captain whilst on a rest break).

The reason why it took 7 years for your friend to be upgraded to 330 FO was because that was when their seniority allowed them to get a position on that aircraft, because that’s the usual wait to have seniority for that position.

But hypothetically say if the airline underwent rapid expansion and the LH FO slots dropped very junior then as long as the new hires met the ATPL minimums they’d be considered for as a widebody FO (ie they would not have to do a minimum number of years as an SO before being “allowed” to be a wide body FO).

 

[jb747]

You know there’s more than just widebodies in the airline now?

Whilst I’m aware of that, it’s something I try to keep out of my mind as much as possible.

Point being a promotional opportunity is available to pilots to be an F/O in mainline very soon after commencement.

Actually there often has been. But, because of the accordion-like nature of recruitment, retirements, and promotions, all short term opportunities tend to be followed by long periods of stagnation. 7 years to wide body command is the shortest I know of.

Actually the requirements to be promoted from S/O to F/O on a widebody are not dissimilar to being promoted to 737 F/O (just need an ATPL to be able to relieve the Captain whilst on a rest break).

Which isn’t much if you say it fast. But the ATPL comes with its own set of hours requirements, in (1,500 hours, and 500 PIC), with the later potentially causing issues.

But hypothetically say if the airline underwent rapid expansion and the LH FO slots dropped very junior then as long as the new hires met the ATPL minimums they’d be considered for as a widebody FO (ie they would not have to do a minimum number of years as an SO before being “allowed” to be a wide body FO).

I haven’t looked at the company docs in some time, but they did include hours requirements for long haul FOs, which specially mentioned flight time within the airline. Obviously they can change the rules as they wish, but the intent was to preclude low hours people from ever being left in charge whilst the Captain had a break. I suspect that if they were forced in that direction, their use of junior Captains might change.

Beyond that, I’m not sure that “rapid expansion” is something that QF is likely to see again. The 767’s introduction was that last burst of that particular bubble.

 

[Rabs97]

Which isn’t much if you say it fast. But the ATPL comes with its own set of hours requirements, in (1,500 hours, and 500 PIC), with the later potentially causing issues.

Hasn’t been just 500hrs PIC for ATPL for a while. It can also be 70hrs PIC as long as there’s also some ICUS (basically multi crew FO) time as well.

Getting an air transport pilot licence (ATPL)

Information on how to get an air transport pilot licence (ATPL), which lets you pilot or co-pilot any private or commercial operation.

www.casa.gov.au

I haven’t looked at the company docs in some time, but they did include hours requirements for long haul FOs, which specially mentioned flight time within the airline.

It’s changed. There’s some of those requirements for Command but not LH F/O, which is the same as SH F/O + ATPL minimums.

Beyond that, I’m not sure that “rapid expansion” is something that QF is likely to see again. The 767’s introduction was that last burst of that particular bubble.

Commands now down to 8 years. And yes a 737 command is a real command.

I’m also intrigued by this comment, given narrowbodies were integrated into the airline’s fleet 30 years ago:

Whilst I’m aware of that, it’s something I try to keep out of my mind as much as possible.

 

[jb747]

Hasn’t been just 500hrs PIC for ATPL for a while. It can also be 70hrs PIC as long as there’s also some ICUS (basically multi crew FO) time as well.

Yes, 70 PIC, but with 250 ICUS. It would be a very cheeky FO who logged his normal flight time as ICUS.

Commands now down to 8 years. And yes a 737 command is a real command.

Ah...Ok.

I’m also intrigued by this comment, given narrowbodies were integrated into the airline’s fleet 30 years ago:

Whilst I’m aware of that, it’s something I try to keep out of my mind as much as possible.

I guess you had to be there, and I'm assuming that you weren't. The integration was anything but a smooth process, and brought it's own hostilities with it.

 

[Rabs97]

I guess you had to be there, and I'm assuming that you weren't. The integration was anything but a smooth process, and brought it's own hostilities with it.

Looks like well over 90% of current mainline pilots joined ‘94 onwards (post integration).

Yes, integrating seniority lists is a hard task and it’s hard to please everyone but it was ultimately for the best as it’s allowed the vast majority of pilots who were employed since then to take opportunities in both LH and SH for career progression and satisfaction.