Ban the hi vis gear in business lounge!

[DC3]

Weak QF management not being prepared to ensure that their own dress code rules are complied with.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

I agree Hayden

Lets take Perth to Newman as an example.

Average of 4 flights a day
Lets say, BHP have 40 pax per flight @$100 per pax
4x40x100=$16,000 and return = $32,000 a day on QF.

QF will not tell Hi-Viz to bugger off...

 

[greenfish]

10.7 Smart, casual dress standards apply at all times. Individual lounge managers will have discretion to administer these standards as they reasonably deem appropriate in the circumstances.

Clearly the individual lounge managers are using their discretion to allow (correctly, in my view) hi-vis in the lounge - this is clearly a right they have from the rule above.

Would someone mind clarifying exactly what is wrong with hi-vis in the lounge? What offense does it cause?

 

[Danger]

Actually I feel that it's core to the argument. Why do you feel that the OP's (or your) vote on "who gets in" to the J lounge carries more precedence? Have you asked those hi-viz people if they really want pretentious business people in suits in their lounge - I'd say that they wouldn't care if the suits are there or not. Which says more about them than it does about the OP, doesn't it?

The OP thinks that hi-viz wearers offends the "look and feel" of the ambiance but I can assure you that most visitors to the J lounge are there for a reason which is not, by the way, to admire the pretty interior design and fit-out of the lounge.

Further, the constant references to the lounge attire policy is a laughable and weak argument because a) Qantas makes this call (not disgruntled anti hi-viz guests) and, b) if it was such a big problem for the carrier they would have stamped it out in the first instance. The fact that it's been happening for years is indicative of the carriers position - enforcing anti hi-viz attire would be detrimental to the carriers FIFO contracts. And money talks people. Not cranky hi-viz haters

I respect your argument and we'll agree to disagree. However, I would not be at all surprised if QF, for example, wrote to BHP etc. and said 'we respect your custom etc. etc. but would be grateful if you could discourage your employees from wearing hi-vis clothing in the lounge'. I reckon you'd be hard-pressed to find a high level exec at such a company who wouldn't respect at least the request; whether they agreed or not may be a different story but I don't think they'd be offended.

I agree Hayden

Lets take Perth to Newman as an example.

Average of 4 flights a day
Lets say, BHP have 40 pax per flight @$100 per pax
4x40x100=$16,000 and return = $32,000 a day on QF.

QF will not tell Hi-Viz to bugger off...

No one is asking QF to tell them to bugger off.

10.7 Smart, casual dress standards apply at all times. Individual lounge managers will have discretion to administer these standards as they reasonably deem appropriate in the circumstances.

Clearly the individual lounge managers are using their discretion to allow (correctly, in my view) hi-vis in the lounge - this is clearly a right they have from the rule above.

Would someone mind clarifying exactly what is wrong with hi-vis in the lounge? What offense does it cause?

From my perspective, it's not smart casual. While this thread is about hi-vis, I agree with some other posters that it's not just such attire; there's plenty of non smart casual going on in the lounges. In my opinion, QF needs to address it all.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

I respect your argument and we'll agree to disagree. However, I would not be at all surprised if QF, for example, wrote to BHP etc. and said 'we respect your custom etc. etc. but would be grateful if you could discourage your employees from wearing hi-vis clothing in the lounge'. I reckon you'd be hard-pressed to find a high level exec at such a company who wouldn't respect at least the request; whether they agreed or not may be a different story but I don't think they'd be offended.


No one is asking QF to tell them to bugger off.

The amount of money that the mining companies are spending on QF to ferrying these FIFO workers, I don't think that QF wants to kick the bees nest...

Weather we like it or not, I don't think that QF really give a s**t what we think. This is just 'another' thread about QC/J Lounge entry requirements.

To me, singlets should be banned, full stop. Thongs, well, that's 50/50. Wearing board-shorts/thongs combo is a no. But wearing jeans, l'm ok with that. The whole bogan thing l hate.

As l posted on AFF a few years ago, l lost respect for QF when l went into the T3 QC Lounge and literally saw old mate dressed up as Tom Hanks from Cast Away.

 

[ReLoad]

Alright, so here's a very effective way to fix this issue, children, DYKWIA suits and other obnoxious beasts.

Upon entry into a J lounge, or QC club, the person who wants to get in stands on a red X marking the spot.

Several digital images are then taken and beamed live on the internet to the AFFCYETLC.
(Australian Frequent Flyer Can You Enter The Lounge Center)
Where a panel of 5 AFF judge will either allow you in, or vote you from the opportunity to savour island dining.
(Should AFF'ers not be available, an outsourced team (JQ call center staff) shall make the call based on a set of criteria.)

Simple, easy and anonymously discriminatory.

 

[amaroo]

Pity we can't stop all the posers from entering the lounge:!:

 

[whatmeworry]

No problem with high vis in lounges however those in hi vis could be confused with airport workers in hi vis, potentially leading to security problems.

 

[Pleb Status]

I am one of the wicked people who wears hi-vis shirts in the PER QP when I travel north to various mine sites for work. However, these work trips are only a very small proportion of my total flights on QF. If QF was to restrict my access to the QP solely due to my shirt colour, I would move all flights to DJ with no hesitation. I can book work trips on QF or DJ, I am not forced to fly QF. QF know this and this is why they will never restrict hi-vis in the PER QP.

I would like to highlight a few things below -

1. Even the highest levels of BHPBIO management wear hi-vis in the QP and on the plane. I have seen this personally on more than one occasion. I assume the other miners are the same. So those suggesting QF appeal to them as a "solution" to the "problem" are misguided. We are "encouraged" by management to wear hi-vis on the plane so we do not waste time changing.

2. Most people wear hi-vis shirts and not removable vests. These shirts cannot just be removed as suggested by others above (just to make others in the QP happy). Some sites are very particular on what is acceptable and may not accept removable vests at all. Even the width of the reflective stripe on the shirt is important at some sites.

3. Most sites require you to have hi-vis clothing on before you enter the site and at all times on the site. It is generally a site requirement to wear hi-vis even if you are visiting the site offices only. Sites accessed by flying to PHE/KTA generally do not have changing facilities at the front gate. If you flying up and back in a single day, you may not be able to access the site's associated camp facilities. Therefore, the only place that you have to change is the airport bathroom. For those who have been there, imagine a full 737 load trying to change in the toilets at Port Hedland (it is not going to happen).

4. Most people flying in hi-vis are only travelling for the day and are not based on site. Those who are based on site generally travel in normal clothes. With all of the other work and safety gear you have to take up with you, taking another set of clothes just to keep others happy in the relevant capital city QP is not going to happen. In my experience, you see alot more hi-vis on the QF flights to PHE/KTA than on the direct charter flights to the isolated sites (like Cloudbreak etc) due to the day trippers.

5. The main location where the hi-vis and the "suits" are going to come in contact in the QP is in the mornings at PER/BNE/ADL. In my experience, it is very rare to see someone in the QP at this time (in the morning) in hi-vis attire that is not washed and the person wearing the hi-vis is not clean. Coming back from site in the afternoon may be a different story, but if you are sitting in the PHE regional lounge in a "suit", you are the very small minority. Therefore, the excuse that people wearing hi-vis are generally not clean in the QP is not valid in the vast majority of cases.

From my experience, it is really only in the morning were hi-vis is an "issue" in the QP. The PER QP could be up to 50% hi-vis some mornings. If the brightness of the hi-vis is too much for your tender eyes, do not fly out of PER on a weekday morning. I hardly see a hi-vis shirt in the afternoons in the PER QP. We are not going to stop wearing the hi-vis in the QP and QF is not going to stop us.

I always wonder why people care what other people are wearing anyway...... It does not affect them at all.

 

[amaroo]

I am one of the wicked people who wears hi-vis shirts in the PER QP when I travel north to various mine sites for work. However, these work trips are only a very small proportion of my total flights on QF. If QF was to restrict my access to the QP solely due to my shirt colour, I would move all flights to DJ with no hesitation. I can book work trips on QF or DJ, I am not forced to fly QF. QF know this and this is why they will never restrict hi-vis in the PER QP.

I would like to highlight a few things below -

1. Even the highest levels of BHPBIO management wear hi-vis in the QP and on the plane. I have seen this personally on more than one occasion. I assume the other miners are the same. So those suggesting QF appeal to them as a "solution" to the "problem" are misguided. We are "encouraged" by management to wear hi-vis on the plane so we do not waste time changing.

2. Most people wear hi-vis shirts and not removable vests. These shirts cannot just be removed as suggested by others above (just to make others in the QP happy). Some sites are very particular on what is acceptable and may not accept removable vests at all. Even the width of the reflective stripe on the shirt is important at some sites.

3. Most sites require you to have hi-vis clothing on before you enter the site and at all times on the site. It is generally a site requirement to wear hi-vis even if you are visiting the site offices only. Sites accessed by flying to PHE/KTA generally do not have changing facilities at the front gate. If you flying up and back in a single day, you may not be able to access the site's associated camp facilities. Therefore, the only place that you have to change is the airport bathroom. For those who have been there, imagine a full 737 load trying to change in the toilets at Port Hedland (it is not going to happen).

4. Most people flying in hi-vis are only travelling for the day and are not based on site. Those who are based on site generally travel in normal clothes. With all of the other work and safety gear you have to take up with you, taking another set of clothes just to keep others happy in the relevant capital city QP is not going to happen. In my experience, you see alot more hi-vis on the QF flights to PHE/KTA than on the direct charter flights to the isolated sites (like Cloudbreak etc) due to the day trippers.

5. The main location where the hi-vis and the "suits" are going to come in contact in the QP is in the mornings at PER/BNE/ADL. In my experience, it is very rare to see someone in the QP at this time (in the morning) in hi-vis attire that is not washed and the person wearing the hi-vis is not clean. Coming back from site in the afternoon may be a different story, but if you are sitting in the PHE regional lounge in a "suit", you are the very small minority. Therefore, the excuse that people wearing hi-vis are generally not clean in the QP is not valid in the vast majority of cases.

From my experience, it is really only in the morning were hi-vis is an "issue" in the QP. The PER QP could be up to 50% hi-vis some mornings. If the brightness on the hi-vis is too much for your tender eyes, do not fly out of PER on a weekday morning. I hardly see a hi-vis shirt in the afternoons in the PER QP. We are not going to stop wearing the hi-vis in the QP and QF is not going to stop us.

I always wonder why other people care what other people are wearing anyway...... It does not affect them at all.

I agree with Pleb Status....and I might add - who cares if it's QP, Jlounge or Flounge:!:

 

[beardoc]

I respect your argument and we'll agree to disagree. However, I would not be at all surprised if QF, for example, wrote to BHP etc. and said 'we respect your custom etc. etc. but would be grateful if you could discourage your employees from wearing hi-vis clothing in the lounge'. I reckon you'd be hard-pressed to find a high level exec at such a company who wouldn't respect at least the request; whether they agreed or not may be a different story but I don't think they'd be offended.

I will disagree with you here. Whilst individual people arguing may not subscribe to this, a lot of arguing for the banning of some tangible thing is code for something else intangible - in this case, there's an undercurrent in this thread that banning Hi-Viz workwear is code for making it harder for certain groups that are members to be in the lounge, because it doesn't fit with that person's ideas of what the lounge should be, or who should be in it. And it comes down to people's beliefs that the Lounge is a finite resource that they have "earned" and therefore they should be more entitled to it. The truth is that they're just as entitled, and if you have an issue with someone's behaviour or their attire, then it's probably far more effective to go to the Lounge Manager on Duty and ask them to talk to the offending people and ask them to enforce the rules of the lounge access. But I really doubt that people would do this. If anyone does this, I would be very interested to hear what the response of QF is.

 

[elbarto]

Would you say the same if someone was to walk into a hatted restaurant in stubbies? The question being is smart casual dress rules being enforced as per the QP rules, or is a blind eye being turned in preference to attracting the $$$? Is it to much to ask someone to change their clothes to meet the rules?

As long as they're behaving in a respectful manner and the clothing doesn't cause offence, i.e swear words or other offensive slogans, I don't really care what people wear.


Sent from an Apple iPad wireless device

 

[Happy Trails]

Pity we can't stop all the posers from entering the lounge:!:

That would ease the overcrowding too.

 

[medhead]

*yawn* I hope the lunch in NZ is going well because it's dead boring here. *yawn*

 

[TonyHancock]

It seems at least some progress is being made at AFF......no counter calls for the much maligned DYKWIA to be denied lounge access.

 

[medhead]

It seems at least some progress is being made at AFF......no counter calls for the much maligned DYKWIA to be denied lounge access.

That goes without saying doesn't it? DYKWIA to be banned at all opportunities?

 

[greenfish]

I think it is time we had some AFF hi vis shirts made up, expressly as lounge attire.

It would make it much easier to spot fellow AFF members and would also sort the men from the DYKWIAs...

I'd be delighted to don one, it'd certainly stand out in the CBR J lounge on a Friday afternoon. Nice change from the usual smattering of suits and military uniforms...

 

[11sjw]

So many people with so much misinformation.

Firstly, to those that said the Hi Vis workers can get changed prior to going to work, when? They land, get on a bus and pretty much head to work. Hence they need their kit on.

Secondly, it isn't a Hi Vis Vest they wear. It is their shirt and pants with Hi Vis reflective tape etc stitched on. It isn't as simple as removing a vest (they have been banned).

The rule as Markis first posted:

10.7 Smart, casual dress standards apply at all times. Individual lounge managers will have discretion to administer these standards as they reasonably deem appropriate in the circumstances.

Seems to me the lounge managers have made their call.

 

[markis10]

So many people with so much misinformation.

Firstly, to those that said the Hi Vis workers can get changed prior to going to work, when? They land, get on a bus and pretty much head to work. Hence they need their kit on.

Secondly, it isn't a Hi Vis Vest they wear. It is their shirt and pants with Hi Vis reflective tape etc stitched on. It isn't as simple as removing a vest (they have been banned).

The rule as Markis first posted:

Seems to me the lounge managers have made their call.

They could of course get changed into their workwear prior to boarding the flight, that would impact on their by QP time by 5 minutes at the expense of additional carry on. Obviously FIFO situations vary, those ex TSV in DRW go straight to a hotel at the airport on arrival having graced the CNS and TSV QP along the way, often on their workwear.

 

[DC3]

Seems to me the lounge managers have made their call.

I think that it might be more about lounge managers not wanting to make any call at all for fear of getting their butts kicked.