Dear John

[1022]

My perspective is that of a very occasional business traveller (couple of trips a year) and a slightly more regular leisure traveller (8-10 flights a year, mostly east coast). I always check prices for QF, DJ (and JQ) but unless DJ are more than $30 cheaper, I'll pick QF.

Why?

FF loyalty counts for about 50% of my decision despite only being NB, but the other 50% is comprised of many of the gripes others have mentioned and which I've experienced on the dozen or so DJ flights I've taken over the least couple of years:

*East coast base fares are often on par with QF, and that's before I have to fork out more to check in a bag or get so much as a drink of water or cup of instant coffee.
*The "Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls" routine REALLY grates. As does the first name greeting....*especially* when my name is shortened to Steve and when my partner with a non-English name cops a silly joke about having an exotic name.
*As someone else mentioned, FAs seem far more interested in their own jolly conversations over the trolley instead of making eye contact and being generally professional. Their appearance can be a bit sloppy at times too, especially the gents....short sleeved white shirts aren't very flattering at the best of times!
*Terminal ambiance sets the scene for the rest of the DJ experience. In SYD my impression of T2 = long check in lines, very young check-in staff who are all a bit rough around the edges ("youz" is not a proper word), followed by the decidedly down-market food court ambiance after security.

I'm just an armchair critic, but to me the DJ brand is suffering an identity crisis. IMHO DJ = LCC culture and service but at full service fares. If the airline's going to try to appeal to higher yielding business pax, and attract leisure pax like me who despite flying economy class still expect a certain standard and ambiance of quality, a fairly dramatic re-brand needs to take place rather than just a bit of tinkering around the edges. I'd say look at REX for an example of the minimum inclusions that should be in the base fare - i.e. really good service, checked bags and a cup of tea and a biscuit in-flight. Their service culture is distinctively their own and sets a really good tone of professional friendliness; not as "sniffy" as QF can come across to some, but definitely a big step up from DJ's current offering. Joining *A would also make me more likely to pick DJ in future because it would mean being able to earn miles on a decent global program rather than on Velocity which holds little appeal.

I don't have a huge amount of money to splash around on domestic travel, but what money I do spend at the moment isn't going to DJ for a number of reasons that I think wouldn't be too hard to address.

 

[crazydave98]

chai_1022, goldfishinabowl and Blackswan,
thank you all for taking the time to give feedback. I won't respond to each point but can safely say that all of the suggestions are being evaluated - everything's on the table at present.
cheers
CrazyDave98

 

[JeniSkunk]

To be able to have a VISA or MC debit card account linked to Velocity for earning points on purchases.
At present, you can only have credit card accounts linked to Velocity.

Jenifur Charne

 

[ejb]

To be able to have a VISA or MC debit card account linked to Velocity for earning points on purchases.
At present, you can only have credit card accounts linked to Velocity.

Jenifur Charne

Jenifur,

I think you will find that no Debit cards have point earning facilities, that is not up to Velocity but in the hands of the banks.

As Debit cards are issued free I don't see them offering rewards programs.

ejb

 

[JeniSkunk]

Jenifur,

I think you will find that no Debit cards have point earning facilities, that is not up to Velocity but in the hands of the banks.
As Debit cards are issued free I don't see them offering rewards programs.

Quite understandable as to it being up to the financial institution as to which points scheme a financial institution links an account type to.
But being able to earn Velocity points on purchases made using VISA or MC debit would be a way for Virgin to attract more custom from people who cannot get a credit card.

Jenifur Charne

 

[ejb]

Quite understandable as to it being up to the financial institution as to which points scheme a financial institution links an account type to.
But being able to earn Velocity points on purchases made using VISA or MC debit would be a way for Virgin to attract more custom from people who cannot get a credit card.

Jenifur Charne

The problem is that Debit cards do not earn points so Velocity can not link to any scheme as there is no scheme.

Credit card points are earnt on Credit cards not debit cards.

ejb

 

[aus_flyer]

Can I request that crew never, ever, ever, refer to Brisbane as "Brisvegas" :evil:

 

[cove]

If you are there CRAZYDAVE the thing you should fix first is the Call Centre stonewalling where we tried to report an issue but got nowhere.
Not writing up a complaint can really cost you.....
Firstly the chicken wrap.
Secondly a hot panel wall of a window seat in an aircraft travelling with an outside temperature of minus 50
Nup no action,nothing for anyone to get concerned.No manager review.

Look I know a lot of complaints are weak but customer safety is important.

 

[oz_mark]

Quite understandable as to it being up to the financial institution as to which points scheme a financial institution links an account type to.
But being able to earn Velocity points on purchases made using VISA or MC debit would be a way for Virgin to attract more custom from people who cannot get a credit card.

A feature of debit cards is that they charge somewhat lower fees than a credit card, certainly insufficient for the bank to be giving you FF points.

 

[BVT]

I am not sure that anything would induce me to voluntarily fly DJ. I live exactly half way between BNE and OOL. I commute regularly to SYD, MEL and CBR. I usually fly JQ from OOL. I have recently had a few DJ trips. The most memorable was after having booked and paid for Y+, I was reassigned to 6B! When queried, the response was a mumbled "operational reasons". Door closes on a half full plane with all of Y+ empty!

Still waiting for the refund!

No apology nor a proper explanation. On the return journey the FA upended a glass of OJ into my lap - her response "Lucky you are on your way home!" I know QF have issues with their FA's but really!

As for The Lounge in SYD - I prefer the Food Court, at least you get what you pay for.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

crazydave98,
If Virgin does bring J Class to Australia, would they consider introducing a "Business Saver" type fare, like a lot of airlines do?
QF do this, but not in Australia. Business Saver fares can be bought on the NZ QF Website.

 

[scibo10]

With my new role requiring me to travel virtually once a week, I have recently had to make a decision on which airline I would give my business loyalty to. In the end, I decided on QF.

Firstly, let me say that I am not one of those DJ bashers who will never leave the perimeters of QF no matter what. In fact, I have flown DJ numerous times (mostly for leisure) and want DJ to succeed and be a viable competitor to QF. My points now relate more to being a business traveller rather than a leisure one.

Firstly, during peak business times, there is very little difference in fares between many of the major capitals (exception being SYD-CBR, with DJ winning hands down on this route for both fare and comfort) and in many instances, DJ is more expensive. Add the fact that I take around 23-33kg in baggage, QF (as a silver memeber get excess baggage included) charge me nothing, whereas DJ charge me $8 plus excess fees.

While catering is not imperative, a small snack and drink is definitely appreciated, without having to dig for a CC or change. On flights between SYD and PER, DJ does not become viable. A330s operating with international in-flight service and greater leg room beats DJ hands down, and the premium in cost is worth paying for.

FF earn is also superior with QF, with 1,000 point guarantee, and loyalty bonus after reaching 450 status credits. Being a relatively young bloke, lifetime status is also an important consideration for me, as I am well on my way to lifetime Silver.

I feel the 4 brand strategy is confusing in many respects, but especially with FF earn. While not a problem domestically, it becomes an issue for international travel. With QF, it is simple. If it marketed QF, you get QF earn. If marketed partner airline, get partner airline earn. If partner is in oneworld, also get status. The end. No problems, and you know crediting should happen very quickly. What is the earn however with a DJ marketed flight between SYD and Nadi? Is it VA or DJ rates. What about SYD to Seattle utilising Alaska Airlines from LAX? For this reason alone, if QF and VA are the same cost, I would choose QF at present. It is becoming clear that DJ are trying hard to unify the brands, but this is hard, given 3 of them are 'New World Carrier' and the other is full-service.

On this point, I feel that the NWC strategy is beginning to get DJ stuck. While not privy to any inside information, it appears that QF's 2 brand strategy gives them flexibility to adjust to the current economic situation of the day, by either pulling the QF or JQ handle harder on specific routes to maximise earnings. DJ does not have this luxury at present. A dual brand model of VA (both domestic and international service) for full-service and a LCC operation may be the way to go. I think it would also be hard for DJ to join any global alliance with 4 different names in train. All too confusing and non-uniformity in service standards.

My gut feel is that once DJ changed their strategy to calling it a 'New World Carrier', they felt that a premium could be charged on this. As another poster recently said, DJ now has the feel of a LCC charging full service fares. When compared to QF, on many occassions (bar leisure routes) it rarely stacks up.

Anyway, this my 2 cents worth (actually it might have been slightly more ).

Anyway, good luck to DJ and John for the future, and I hope the move upmarket for DJ is successful.

 

[JohnK]

I booked a QF flight back that evening, which was around $30 cheaper then the similar timed DJ flight. Was welcomed aboard using surname, served a hot dinner, wine and in general the professionalism was outstanding in all areas.

Welcome to AFF AirlineGuy.

To be fair to Virgin you must get exceptional special treatment on QF. I cannot remember a Qantas FA/CSM ever welcoming me on board a domestic flight by my first name let alone surname. It is usually a turn right here or cross over and turn right depending on where I am seated. At least with Virgin I get a welcome aboard and addressed by name.

Firstly, during peak business times, there is very little difference in fares between many of the major capitals (exception being SYD-CBR, with DJ winning hands down on this route for both fare and comfort) and in many instances, DJ is more expensive. Add the fact that I take around 23-33kg in baggage, QF (as a silver memeber get excess baggage included) charge me nothing, whereas DJ charge me $8 plus excess fees.

I thought the charge for 23kg checked luggage on DJ has gone up to $10 per booking.

 

[JeniSkunk]

I thought the charge for 23kg checked luggage on DJ has gone up to $10 per booking.

Just looked at the Fare Types page on Virgin Blue.
$10 for 23kg checked when purchased online for GO! and Blue Saver, $5 serivce fee added when using GCC for purchase. $20 when purchased at the check-in counter at the airport.
23kg checked included in fare for Flexible
32kg checked included in fare Corporate Plus, and PE.

edit: fix typo

Jenifur Charne

 

[drron]

An article in the SMH this morning seems to suggest DJ is listening to some of the concerns here-
Virgin launches rescue mission

 

[crazydave98]

Just looked at the Fare Types page on Virgin Blue.
$10 for 23kg checked when purchased online for GO! and Blue Saver, $5 serivce fee added when using GCC for purchase. $20 when purchased at the check-in counter at the airport.

Velocity Gold and Silver members do not pay for checked baggage (I have asked that this be highlighted on our "fare types" page). But appreciate why paying checked baggage is an issue for Red members travelling for business as described by scibo10 - I think s/he will find most of his/her issues with us quite quickly and hope to lure them back.
cheers
CrazyDave98

 

[JeniSkunk]

Velocity Gold and Silver members do not pay for checked baggage (I have asked that this be highlighted on our "fare types" page). But appreciate why paying checked baggage is an issue for Red members travelling for business as described by scibo10 - I think s/he will find most of his/her issues with us quite quickly and hope to lure them back.
cheers
CrazyDave98

Dave, I just double checked the Fare Types page, and there is no mention of Velocity membership levels much less how they apply to checked luggage, relative to fare types on the page.

Jenifur Charne

 

[ejb]

Dave, I just double checked the Fare Types page, and there is no mention of Velocity membership levels much less how they apply to checked luggage, relative to fare types on the page.

Jenifur Charne

If you check QF you will also find no reference. Pax with status know the limits.

Once ticketed I think it would show.

ejb

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Thanks for the link ddron

Virgin launches rescue mission

...His intention, say analysts, is to turn Virgin into more of a business-focused carrier which will see improvements to its premium economy service, refurbished lounges and an upgraded loyalty program.

If this is the case, seems like not all the QF J runs will dry up. Might even worth a switch from QF to DJ. Still early days though.

 

[codash1099]

Thanks for the link ddron

Virgin launches rescue mission

If this is the case, seems like not all the QF J runs will dry up. Might even worth a switch from QF to DJ. Still early days though.

From a quick chat with a QF FA last week, I would think that they are well aware of the possible impact that JB may have at DJ. For instance, it seem that the water ices on the PER-SYD run and vv are out and ice creams are back. And FA's seem to be sharpening up a bit as well.

Twill be interesting to see what else ensues.