Dear John

[dajop]

I'm not convinced the food thing is as big as everyone makes it out to be.

Suddenly everyone who aspires to get to or maintain QF Gold or higher (and more importantly the decision makers in companies who have similar aspirations) are going to start flying DJ because they are giving away a couple of byron bay cookies, some cheese/biscuits or a chicken curry you get for $5 or $6 from a food court?

The whole lack of being part of a bigger alliance thing strikes me as a bigger deal than free food.

 

[Justchecking]

I'm not convinced the food thing is as big as everyone makes it out to be.

Suddenly everyone who aspires to get to or maintain QF Gold or higher (and more importantly the decision makers in companies who have similar aspirations) are going to start flying DJ because they are giving away a couple of byron bay cookies, some cheese/biscuits or a chicken curry you get for $5 or $6 from a food court?

The whole lack of being part of a bigger alliance thing strikes me as a bigger deal than free food.

On the food front I agree. Free water, tea and coffee definately. They are basic comfort items that would not cost the earth to provide and it just seems stingy not to. But food items? Especially on short flights, not so much. I guess that's why QFs inflight service has been reduced to a muffin on various sectors.

 

[oz_mark]

The whole lack of being part of a bigger alliance thing strikes me as a bigger deal than free food.

I would suggest that it is not just one single thing, but they need to look at the whole package that is being delivered. If you want to extract premium prices then you need a premium package. This includes being part of an alliance.

The food thing affects different routes in various ways. One thing Qantas do well is segment the offerings on their domestic services. Cityflyer operates one level of service, the Perth flights an enhanced version of that, and the rest of the mainline domestic a step down. Perhaps something Virgin could look at.

 

[notzac]

On the food front I agree. Free water, tea and coffee definately. They are basic comfort items that would not cost the earth to provide and it just seems stingy not to. But food items? Especially on short flights, not so much. I guess that's why QFs inflight service has been reduced to a muffin on various sectors.

Agreed - though I'd also like to see something like a non-messy piece of fruit, maybe an apple or a pear - IMHO a nice and inexpensive hand out that shouldn't cannibalise on board sales revenue much.

 

[dajop]

The food thing affects different routes in various ways.

This is true, and the transcontinental flights are the flights where a food offering is most important, and perhaps one reason (alongside 737 vs widebody, and inferior frequencies) that DJ haven't been too successful on PER routes. However on the shorter routes, when I was flying a lot domestically, I actually preferred the current Virgin approach, if wanted a snack or even a sandwich on a short flight the option was there, if not fine, I can survive 60 minutes on a plane without the need to eat anything.

Will be interesting to see if what NZ is doing trans tasman works - with opt ins and the more expensive fares getting the food included.

 

[Justchecking]

In terms of what else I'd like to see....

An end to larrikinism. This is an archaic and frankly embarassing aspect of Australian society. It might have been irreverent and funny in the 70's but we are 40yrs on from that. Please get it off the PAs and bring the professionalism up to an international standard.

Smarter looking crew, that uniform just looks terrible on most of them. Even Jetstar look more professional and they are serving leisure crowds in the budget market. All the LCC's around the world have smartened up their uniforms to include jackets, scarves, suits. Why? Because you get more respect that way and a higher paying crowd. People want to be served by flight attendants that look smart, and high class it's part of what makes flying more special than taking the bus.

Bring back the idea that flying is something to savour not something to dread. Fine it's more affordable than ever but it's also more uncomfortable and painful than ever. The idea of choice broke new ground, it's time to break new ground again with comfort. Don't squish 200 people into a tiny aircraft with insufficient amenities for hours on end (trans-continental flights), the cheapness of the fare will never compensate for the awfulness of the experience.

 

[markis10]

I'm not convinced the food thing is as big as everyone makes it out to be.

Suddenly everyone who aspires to get to or maintain QF Gold or higher (and more importantly the decision makers in companies who have similar aspirations) are going to start flying DJ because they are giving away a couple of byron bay cookies, some cheese/biscuits or a chicken curry you get for $5 or $6 from a food court?

The whole lack of being part of a bigger alliance thing strikes me as a bigger deal than free food.

Interesting comment, history would seem to indicate your view is that of the minority I am afraid, while its easy to write down the value of food when you fly so much, for some its still a novel concept having a "meal" in the sky. If you cast your mind back to Compass Mk1, they were a LCC in many ways and did not serve food, they saw a significant boost in numbers once they bought catering onboard, although it was not a life saver per se. The last days of Ansett were indicative of the importance of food, as it was the poor catering that made the press not the late departures while they tried to rustle up fuel money.

For me the Qantaslink food is a good compromise, well packed, substantial compared to the QF cupcake and complimented by a J style drinks service rather than the mini bottles of wine on the mainline, if DJ were to look at that I think it would make a difference.

 

[notzac]

An end to larrikinism. This is an archaic and frankly embarassing aspect of Australian society. It might have been irreverent and funny in the 70's but we are 40yrs on from that. Please get it off the PAs and bring the professionalism up to an international standard.

In my flights this weekend just gone, there was a refreshing lack of cuteness on the PAs. Hopefully this continues!

Smarter looking crew, that uniform just looks terrible on most of them. Even Jetstar look more professional and they are serving leisure crowds in the budget market. All the LCC's around the world have smartened up their uniforms to include jackets, scarves, suits. Why? Because you get more respect that way and a higher paying crowd. People want to be served by flight attendants that look smart, and high class it's part of what makes flying more special than taking the bus.

I'd agree with that to a point - I know I'll get accused of all sorts of things by saying so, but the current uniform looks great on some of the staff! The current uniform would probably be fine with a slightly more modest long sleeve shirt and a nice jacket .. *shrug* I'm definitely no fashion guru, so I wouldn't really have a clue. Do the FAs want any changes to the uniform?

Don't squish 200 people into a tiny aircraft with insufficient amenities for hours on end (trans-continental flights), the cheapness of the fare will never compensate for the awfulness of the experience.

I'd suggest that JQ and TT are more expert at this than DJ are..!

 

[Justchecking]

The current uniform looks good on the slender individuals. But pants that sit on the hips and slim cut shirts are dire on anyone who has a bit of flesh. And lets be honest, the majority of Australian's have a bit of flesh. It also lacks the tidyness that a jacket would provide. Personally I like to see flight crew well dressed not casual. It makes me think that the airline would take more care with their aircraft and passengers when they go to the effort of dressing their crew well.

 

[SeaWolf]

This is a small thing, but I've noticed that for some reason Virgin Blue's limit in carry on is a bit different to pretty much every other airline. Virgin Blue's limit is 23x34x48 (105cm linear), while pretty much every other airline I've looked at (QF, NZ, SQ, LH, UA) uses 23x36x56 (115cm linear) or some small variation that arrives at 115cm linear.
I don't think it's policed very closely, but it would be nice to have consistancy so that those who are doing carry-on only (even though I tend to hate their locker cramming luggage) can not worry that Virgin Blue has a different standard to pretty much every other airline.

 

[markis10]

Interesting Blog style article in the SMH just published online

Battle of the loyalty programs

Velocity will be the main spearhead, and AFF gets a mention.

 

[medhead]

This is a small thing, but I've noticed that for some reason Virgin Blue's limit in carry on is a bit different to pretty much every other airline. Virgin Blue's limit is 23x34x48 (105cm linear), while pretty much every other airline I've looked at (QF, NZ, SQ, LH, UA) uses 23x36x56 (115cm linear) or some small variation that arrives at 115cm linear.
I don't think it's policed very closely, but it would be nice to have consistancy so that those who are doing carry-on only (even though I tend to hate their locker cramming luggage) can not worry that Virgin Blue has a different standard to pretty much every other airline.

Or is it qantas that has a different standard.
Actually the QF limit is 2x 105 or 1x105 and garment bag or 1x115.
DJ allows 1x105 and 1x (suit pack/garment bag or small bag or briefcase) and extra personal items like a laptop etc.

So basically the same as QF except for the 1x115 bag.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Cheers for that link. Very interesting read, but nothing we (AFF members) aren't already aware of? Good to have people like CrazyDave pitching in on this thread and keeping us informed, well, as much as he can without getting into trouble.

Sounds like John B is definitely making some positive changes in DJ. Right man for the right job.

Makes you wonder, what was Godfrey doing all these years (mainly the last few)????

 

[Justchecking]

Makes you wonder, what was Godfrey doing all these years (mainly the last few)????

Possibly being hampered by his lack of knowledge and experience in what the corporate flyer wanted. Everyone comes up against their own limitations at some stage.

 

[pauly7]

They are certainly not the airline they were originally. While PE was a bit of a misstep, the addition of features such as Velocity, the Lounge, codeshares etc. are not really the stuff of a true LCC.

One problem, though, is the risk of changing the corporate culture too much, as this can lead to disaffected employees, and their consequent departue from the airline.

This is part of the reason I sugget they look within the Virgin airlines, such as Virgin America for product ideas on where they may want to go, rather than turn themselves into a copy of Qantas.

I would suggest Velocity could be considered a bit of a mis step, at the very least placed in the 'must be fixed' basket. Slow posting of DJ points, a seeming non interest in helping post partner airline points and a terrible strike ratio with other non airline partners has left my card in the 'too hard basket' until they fix it.

I would suggest and I think you will see under JB, a few dinosaurs at DJ exit the building quietly... There are already names floating round at the village of who these ppl might be - with any luck they will be the ppl who are wedded to DJ LCC way of thinking....

Totally agree with DJ sourcing inspiraton from better Virgin airlines! They need to take some bigger risks! Changing the first couple of rows a different colour, blocking the middle seat and calling it premium doesn't cut it and clearly has failed. Look at Virgin America JB! Please!

Also they should have a look at Pacific Blue... As part of the overhaul of the 4 brand strategy. It is still reportedly still struggling and QF is turning the screws on it big time in NZ via JQ

 

[Johnc]

Dear John - why do I have to wait 24-48 hrs for a return phone call?

When I phone your Velocity Program to book an international flight, why do I have to leave details and then wait 24-48hrs for a return phone call?

What happens if I am out when the phone call is eventually made?
Do I want another 24-48hrs or am I then removed from the list.


MOST UNSATISFACTORY
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Whoever setup this system knows nothing about service.

 

[SeaWolf]

Re: Dear John - why do I have to wait 24-48 hrs for a return phone call?

When I phone your Velocity Program to book an international flight, why do I have to leave details and then wait 24-48hrs for a return phone call?

I'm guessing this is a by-product of the current IT/Reservations system and will probably disappear in the near future when the new system comes online. It's probably because at present they have to call the partner airline in question to do it. You can book international reward flights online if they are operated by Virgin Blue group airlines.

 

[gilby08]

What new system will they be using? Is it Navitare (as from what i read 1-2years ago) or are they going to head to amadeus or even something else?

 

[777]

What new system will they be using? Is it Navitare (as from what i read 1-2years ago) or are they going to head to amadeus or even something else?

Navitaire's New Skies by the look of it. Anyone know much about the world of airline IT?

 

[notzac]

Navitaire's New Skies by the look of it. Anyone know much about the world of airline IT?

Yup, the changes to the online booking engine would indicate that they're using New Skies. For some reason, I thought they were moving to Amadeus..?

EDIT: Slightly older article with some of the salient features of New Skies listed: http://atwonline.com/it-distribution/article/virgin-blue-opts-navitaires-new-skies-0309