Domestic Row 4/Row 23 and seating for WP Discussion

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Re: Qantas thanks its most loyal customers

I am a bit disappointed in the "tone" of some of the posts made last night .

I tend to agree with bossreggie in that alternative views are always encouraged on AFF. However, we all need to respect the opinion of others.

A reminder that offensive/insulting posts (even when disguised - but have the same effect) will lead to the poster receiving an infraction or a ban.
 
Alright everyone - STFU and press pause!!

I need sometime to catch up on the thread ;)

Time out for 30 mins so I can get all caught up please :).

PS - Wilco (my old post got moderated) - but can you please go back to berating Frequent Flyers for caring about Frequent Flying perks - because it makes you sound like SWMBO - which in turn is like a security blanket and makes me feel safe and comfortable.

And on the off chance that you ARE my Other Half - hi honey :)

...........

On topic - please don't over react to JohnK's post - I understand his point, which is on topic with this thread.

That is, simply, about QF valuing loyalty and rewarding it with benefits (published and unpublished).

QF has made a business decision to allow premium pax access to premium seating zones.

Eg. CL/P1 can preallocate 4/5, WP can have row 5 etc.

They have officially decided to reward status pax with premium seating options.

Now all John is saying is that status pax (who through their status have demonstrated loyalty to QF - regardless of current fare), appreciate these benefits.

But, regardless of the individual circumstance, these benefits appear diluted when status pax see non-status pax receive the same benefit when the aircraft is not full.

It dilutes the value of the benefit, official or not.

Now of course there are valid reasons for it to not work all the time - but the concept of preferential seating is not new (even to QF), and when implemented works very well.

With technology improvements, it can even be made more efficient, especially in the late stages of T-time.

The problems often come from frontline staff having no regard to FF issues when sometimes taking the easy option of solving issues / requests.

It's a common problem across all airlines where business rules (set by the FF program, or luggage business rules etc etc) are ignored and overridden by frontline staff.

Sometimes with good reason - other times not.

Altea has successfully removed many areas of discretion, but others remain.

JohnK was not demanding he be treated as a DYKWIA - he was just pointing out where a benefit area can sometimes not be perfect and can provide an area of perceived dilution as to benefits (expected or not).

The Insider - what is TRSO?? I know the others.
 
Re: Qantas thanks its most loyal customers

The quality of AFF is suffering overall IMO.

It started to decline on the 27th August 2010 to be honest. :p

@TonyHancock........... How dare you post something so relevant to the thread topic!!:D

LOL I put it down to jet lag! I just couldn't focus on getting anything controversial into my post. :D
 
Re: Qantas thanks its most loyal customers

Yeah, he/she tends to do that. <redacted>

More and more threads are being derailed by seemingly unnecessary personal attacks. The quality of AFF is suffering overall IMO.

wilco, if you disagree with someone maybe you could trying being polite about it sometimes?

Can I just say, I absolutely agree with you....

One could try being polite, but eventually you hit a brick wall and the quality of AFF is suffering because a select few feel its their venting ground to tell the world how bad an airline is because they didn't get the seat they are ENTITLED to. "Some" WP's think the world owes them everything because of all the money they have spent on Qantas, and this perception really needs to change or be challenged, gut given that you can't argue with stupid, ill just let them be.

I mean seriously, who has the time, patience and effort to monitor which train carriage they get on to work, which side of the train they sit on, and which few seats they sit in. To me it seems that there are much bigger issues at play......
 
Re: Qantas thanks its most loyal customers

what part of what i have written don't you understand?? as a status pax you have a better seat selection!

Does better seat selection translate to having a right to not have someone sitting next to you?

I haven't actually worked out which is more upsetting to people. Not being allocated 4F, or having seat 4E occupied by someone :shock:
 
...
I mean seriously, who has the time, patience and effort to monitor which train carriage they get on to work, which side of the train they sit on, and which few seats they sit in. To me it seems that there are much bigger issues at play......
It could be you are either not fully aware of your environment or not interested.

As per nlagelle, I look to seat on a train near where on exiting I am at the egress from the station, light in the morning/afternoon can affect my web-surfing so I endeavor make allowance for that as well. It's free to do so and helps my 90 minutes spent daily on trains while commuting more comfortable.

For me, row 4 (/row 23) is about space/bulkhead convenience. I generally could not care less about exiting an aircraft ASAP, only getting up when either an inboard PAX want to access the aisle or people have start disembarking and the aisle is otherwise clear. For example on 734's, any aisle seats in rows 1-6 are my preference do to additional seat pitch.
 
Re: Qantas thanks its most loyal customers

gut given that you can't argue with stupid, ill just let them be.

Wow, you really can't take a hint can you? How about playing the ball rather than the man? Your constant personal attacks and anti-FF sentiment is really dragging down the entire tone of the forum.
 
Re: Qantas thanks its most loyal customers

Does better seat selection translate to having a right to not have someone sitting next to you?

I haven't actually worked out which is more upsetting to people. Not being allocated 4F, or having seat 4E occupied by someone :shock:

I don't think anyone expects to always have an empty seat next to them, especially when loads are high, more so you'd hope your shadow to work when flights are lighter for pax.

Personally selecting 4F is more preferable than having an empty seat next to me.
 
I thought seating benefits were about ADVANCE seat selection... not being able to choose who you do or don't sit next to...

as a frequent flyer I am quite aware that picking a front bulkhead (or row 4) or and emergency exit seat is more than likely to lead to someone sitting next to me. the middle seat is the best of an otherwise bad lot.

I employ the same trick when I fly on an airline for which I have no status... at check-in I take the best available seat... knowing it might well be the middle.

flying with status, if I have secured row 4 then that's all that matters to me. I have my seat. whether or not someone is sitting next to me I know I can't really control.
 
as a frequent flyer I am quite aware that picking a front bulkhead (or row 4) or and emergency exit seat is more than likely to lead to someone sitting next to me. the middle seat is the best of an otherwise bad lot.

I've had an almost 100% success rate with my shadow in exit row.

Since I've discovered the benefits of row 4/5, I'm at about 50%.

flying with status, if I have secured row 4 then that's all that matters to me. I have my seat. whether or not someone is sitting next to me I know I can't really control.

I agree, but it is awfully nice when the shadow comes along for the ride :)
 
Re: Qantas thanks its most loyal customers

Can I just say, I absolutely agree with you....

One could try being polite, but eventually you hit a brick wall and the quality of AFF is suffering because a select few feel its their venting ground to tell the world how bad an airline is because they didn't get the seat they are ENTITLED to. "Some" WP's think the world owes them everything because of all the money they have spent on Qantas, and this perception really needs to change or be challenged, gut given that you can't argue with stupid, ill just let them be.

actually I think your venting about flying perks on a frequent flyer site is arguing with stupid. Nearly everyone here is here to share experiences and tips for frequent flying. Part of that includes seat selection!


I mean seriously, who has the time, patience and effort to monitor which train carriage they get on to work, which side of the train they sit on, and which few seats they sit in. To me it seems that there are much bigger issues at play......

Well Wilco, having caught a train to work for 18 years you soon learn where there are better places to sit. Have you experienced a crush when the entire train exits at Flinders St? I'm gathering not as you would agree with my logic!
 
PS - Wilco (my old post got moderated) - but can you please go back to berating Frequent Flyers for caring about Frequent Flying perks - because it makes you sound like SWMBO - which in turn is like a security blanket and makes me feel safe and comfortable.

And on the off chance that you ARE my Other Half - hi honey :)

Not quite, but it did make me chuckle.... lol


On topic - please don't over react to JohnK's post - I understand his point, which is on topic with this thread.

That is, simply, about QF valuing loyalty and rewarding it with benefits (published and unpublished).

QF has made a business decision to allow premium pax access to premium seating zones.

Now all John is saying is that status pax (who through their status have demonstrated loyalty to QF - regardless of current fare), appreciate these benefits.

But, regardless of the individual circumstance, these benefits appear diluted when status pax see non-status pax receive the same benefit when the aircraft is not full.


Now of course there are valid reasons for it to not work all the time - but the concept of preferential seating is not new (even to QF), and when implemented works very well.

The problems often come from frontline staff having no regard to FF issues when sometimes taking the easy option of solving issues / requests.

JohnK was not demanding he be treated as a DYKWIA - he was just pointing out where a benefit area can sometimes not be perfect and can provide an area of perceived dilution as to benefits (expected or not).

Ill answer your points in bullet form just to make things a little easier for me.

I actually don't see his point. As a frequent traveller, he of all people should understand that "things" happen. In this case it was a double aircraft substitution and god knows whatever else.

Im all for sticking it to QF when they don't provide a published benefit (e.g.: priority boarding), but to expect that they provide unpublished ones, all the time, is just... well, unrealistic.

QF do allow premium pax preferred acces to premium seating zones and thats what he got. Row 5. He wasn't happy with this, so changed to row 4, but then he stalked the poor pregnant women to determine she was of no status and then comes on here to accuse her of having stolen his seat!! I mean really?? does it get any worse than this??

i don't think its a case of appreciating these benefits, its more of demanding them, and when you don't get them, all hell breaks loose. And id like to add, Row 4 or whatever is NOT the sole domain of WP's. It is a row of seats on an aircraft that the airline can assign in their ultimate wisdom.
And so what if a non status pax was sat in row 4, what is the big deal?? the big deal is that she had the window or aisle that he wanted and should have got over her because he is WP. Does any of this just sound wrong to you?? I'm sorry, but id be embarrassed to admit to such ridiculousness.

There are many reasons as to why it doesn't work all the time and in this case, its clear that something did occur, but even so, $hit happens from time to time. Again, I don't see the big deal.

as for front line staff.... do you honestly think they have the time to go through the manifest, pick out people for special treatment, fix up any real or perceived errors, move people around from seats that for all intents and purposes they are entitled to, double check FF's preferences and make sure they get the only seat they ever sit in and the list goes on.... they don't have the time to do any of this. They need to get the pax and aircraft out on time. Mr WP and his seat preference is waaaaaay down the list of their priorities.

I never suggested he behaved as a DYKWIA, but I think what he did was simply unacceptable. Spying on this poor women, passing judgment on her because she didnt have a FF number or status on her BP and then coughing on here that he didn't get the seat he wanted. I mean honestly, who cares what status any other passenger has, or what benefits they get. If its that important to you, fight your own battles, don't drag other innocent bystanders in to support your, IMO, flawed, argument.

I hear what your saying, but at the end of the day, the rant is about him not getting the seat he tried to choose twice and then being allocated 5B, changing it to 4 something which still wasn't good enough because no status pregnant women was in the seat he wanted. And the spying on other flyers, well thats just creepy......
 
Re: Qantas thanks its most loyal customers

I mean seriously, who has the time, patience and effort to monitor which train carriage they get on to work, which side of the train they sit on, and which few seats they sit in. To me it seems that there are much bigger issues at play......

Conversely some may ask who has the time, patience and effort to post on AFF about those who have the time, patience and effort to monitor which train carriage they get on to work....etc...etc. I think the point is that AFF is populated by many different personalities.

The airlines have created certain expectations for their frequent flyers by the offers of both published and unpublished benefits and frequent flyers make the as much of the benefits as they can. Flying is an occupational hazard for me so anything that makes my tedious journeys a little easier is good. Seat selection is one of those perks. I like to sit in the first row behind business, preferably in an aisle, when I am flying economy, it's even better when nobody is sitting next to me. I like to be off the plane quickly and out of the airport as soon as possible. Both VA and QF have made this possible for me.

I don't have a God given right to this priority seating...it is more an airline given right!! The airlines appear to want the business of frequent flyers so try to give them a comfortable journey...and sometimes at the expense of less frequent flyers.

My big issue is priority boarding, I like to board a plane early and get my bags stowed. Is this a major issue in my life?.....Probably not major, but it is important to me. I understand that in the greater scheme of the world there are more important global issues, but when I'm boarding a plane priority boarding is at the front of my mind. I'm sorry but that is the way it is and now I'm off topic. :-|
 
Re: Qantas thanks its most loyal customers

actually I think your venting about flying perks on a frequent flyer site is arguing with stupid. Nearly everyone here is here to share experiences and tips for frequent flying. Part of that includes seat selection!

Well Wilco, having caught a train to work for 18 years you soon learn where there are better places to sit. Have you experienced a crush when the entire train exits at Flinders St? I'm gathering not as you would agree with my logic!


But its fine for SOMEONE else to experience it, so long as its not you, right?? I still fail to see what makes you more special and deserving than anyone else?

And for the record, I don't do PT, because its not to my liking, but you don't hear me going on about how metro should have a special "wilco" zoned off area that only I and people of my ilk get to sit in so that i don't have to be exposed to the suburban riff raff.

It all comes back to an earlier question.... What would you do if someone was sat in your carriage, on your side of the train, in your seat?? Would you behave in the same way and rant about how this poor inconsiderate so and so sat in your seat, thereby inconveniencing you and putting you through the trauma of a Flinders St crush??

<redacted>
 
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by the same token that qantas didn't confirm international upgrades in advance, or used to allow empty seats to go out in business class cabins even though passengers had applied for points upgrades... it simply doesn't make sense to revenue to always shadow a platinum with a spare seat.

otherwise what's the incentive to try and get that passenger to move up and buy a higher fare in business class?

many people have stated here previously that American airlines are in so much trouble because everyone is on upgraded fares... top elites get first class and never pay for it. if I knew as a platinum I would always get a spare seat beside me if the flight had a few spare seats would I bother to buy business class? same used to apply to BA flights in Europe... if you can score the first row, left side, behind the club world cabin then you get all the perks of the wide seat, almost complete privacy, and why would you pay for the higher cabin (given you get a free bar service and lounge access anyway with your qf status).

I know two chairman's lounge members who fly qantas only a couple times a year, and only for domestic flights... but they never buy business because they say they always get upgraded.

the non status passenger is not getting the same benefit at the platinum. they probably don't even know until getting to the airport that they'll have that good seat. unlike the platinum who may know well in advance. in terms of reducing stress levels related to travel, having the cnfirmed good seat makes things much easier.

unless you were unable to confirm a seat in business class, remember that even as a CL or a platinum, you have chosen to fly economy. your issues could be solved by throwing more money at it.

I think any spare shadow seats should be given to those on full fare who might normally travel business class but were unable to because that cabin was sold out.
 
Have a 5:30pm flight tomorrow. It is a 734 and it was one of those that was swapped from a 767 to a 738 and now a 734 so I could not select a seat online due to the bug and had no allocated seat with a forward aisle preference in the profile.

Used OLCI a few minutes ago but not only did I not get an op-up but my pre-allocated seat was 5B (:shock:) with a wide open cabin! :shock:

Is it due to a late 767 to 737 substitution? A aisle 'B' seat on the 767 stays a 'B' seat on the 737?

I've been in an exit row 738 (with a BP printed) when it was subbed to a 734 and I lost the exit row.

Qantas could look into doing some changes on how seats are re-mapped due to aircraft substitution.
 
Re: Qantas thanks its most loyal customers

Wow, you really can't take a hint can you? How about playing the ball rather than the man? Your constant personal attacks and anti-FF sentiment is really dragging down the entire tone of the forum.


You can't play the ball, when the man sets the rules of the game.

It seems I am missing something... but what does an individual achieve by being annoyed at some random stranger because they got to sit in a seat he wanted?? And then spy on them (their BP) to determine they were less deserving??

The issue is not that the complainant didn't get his seat, its that someone else did. Had she been WP, he would have been fine with it, but its the fact she was of no status that irks him no end and thats just not cool. not cool at all.
 
Re: Qantas thanks its most loyal customers

A better seat "selection" does not guarantee you your preferred seat, nor one of 2 or 3 others that are to your liking.

Actually it comes very close. My preferred seat is forward aisle. As a Plat that's what allocated to me by default.


Its not that I don't understand other peoples interests, it's more that I don't understand how being a WP is an "interest" or a "hobby". If I went out on a date and asked someone what their hobbies and interests were, id expect something a bit more substantial than " being a Qantas platinum frequent flyer".

You don't need to understand! It's their interest!!! If they enjoy status running then good for them! You might like basket weaving as a hobby, I personally couldn't understand why, but if it makes you happy, then good. I love camping, but some of my friends don't and can't understand why I do.

You are more than welcome to deal with whatever situation as you see fit, but for mine, getting annoyed at some random stranger because she is in a seat that you want to be in is at best, irrational and at worst delusional. I did not assume anything regarding your life experiences, but if this is your biggest problem then you must be doing ok.

Well that's your take on it. Others will disagree and that's their choice!,,

Do you get annoyed if someone is sat in your seat on the train? Or do you just find another seat that may not be exactly what you wanted, but that will do on this occasion? And why am I not surprised that your preferred seats are those that you deem the most desirable, that are closest to the exits so that you are not inconvenienced by the riff raff.
Who is bothered to actually count which carriage they get on anyway?

As I pointed out its got nothing to do with the riff raff, rather not wanting to get caught in the crush.

I think that is the crux of the issue. Some WP's have this false sense of grandeur and importance that makes you believe you are superior to others and therefore deserve preferential treatment. Newsflash mate: I and anyone else could be WP by the end of the week if we wanted to. It means nothing, and certainly doesn't make you better or more important.

please don't refer to me as "mate". Yes anyone could, some choose to and some don't.. Personally anyone who makes WP should enjoy its perks. One of those is the advanced seat selection.

I mean, you catch public transport to work.... In some people's eyes that makes you inferior. Or the fact you live far enough from the city to warrant catching PT makes you inferior. But that's ok, your a QF WP, surely that counts for something right?

I know people who will never catch PT. that's their choice. I choose to as its quicker than driving. My flying status doesn't even cross my mind..

If your life revolves around WP and the benefits it gives you, good luck to you. I personally couldn't imagine anything so dull and my life has greater worth and meaning than some stupid airline status. What woold you do if your job changed and you didn't travel?? Perish the thought.

Again, your opinion. Some people enjoy it.

I never said I'm right and you're wrong. What I'm tying to say is that I think it's silly to get all worked up over nothing. If that's what you choose to do, and how you choose to handle situations, so be it. It will only affect and impact you and not me, so eat your heart out. Get all worked up and annoyed over the non status pregnant woman who stole your seat, see if I care.

Yes but you have been belittling the people who might think it is more than nothing.

last time I typed in the address for this site it had the words "frequent flyer" in the address. In other words people here are going to talk about status how to get it and how to keep it! They are also going to talk about seating too.
 
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Re: Qantas thanks its most loyal customers

But its fine for SOMEONE else to experience it, so long as its not you, right?? I still fail to see what makes you more special and deserving than anyone else?


I have no idea what you are talking about here..
And for the record, I don't do PT, because its not to my liking, but you don't hear me going on about how metro should have a special "wilco" zoned off area that only I and people of my ilk get to sit in so that i don't have to be exposed to the suburban riff raff.

It all comes back to an earlier question.... What would you do if someone was sat in your carriage, on your side of the train, in your seat?? Would you behave in the same way and rant about how this poor inconsiderate so and so sat in your seat, thereby inconveniencing you and putting you through the trauma of a Flinders St crush??

<redacted>


And has anyone here made the same comment?? seriously! just about everyone i know that catches PT has their preferred area on a train they like to be, for whatever reason.

And I don't have a particular seat on the train, just a preferred carriage and side. and even then sometimes the trains are too packed to worry about that. But I will still get in the usual carriage. and judging by your last comment you have never been at Flinders st during the morning peak.
 
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