Ethiopian 737 Max 8 crash and Fallout

[serfty]

200hrs doesn't seem like much experience.....

It was a little more: (Aircraft Accident Investigation Preliminary Report)

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As for the Pilot:

 

[juddles]

200hrs doesn't seem like much experience..... having just spent 100hrs watching a 16 year old drive - it's bugger all IMHO.

But who else had more relevant time in a 737 Max???

 

[amaroo]

It was a little more: (Aircraft Accident Investigation Preliminary Report)

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View attachment 159554

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As for the Pilot:

View attachment 159555

207 Meh

 

[Berlin]

207 Meh

Gosh- they were both very young in general! It might not be correct in every case, but somehow I prefer it if at least one of the two pilots up the front is a bit more experienced and mature.

 

[Quickstatus]

200hrs doesn't seem like much experience..... having just spent 100hrs watching a 16 year old drive - it's bugger all IMHO.

Its a long time especially with twin 16yr doing the L at the same time

 

[Quickstatus]

But who else had more relevant time in a 737 Max???

Thats the problem.
There were only 7 pilots who had experience with erroneous activation. 4 are dead and while 3 survived.
And the Max simulator I think cannot simulate an erroneous MCAS.

Commercial Pilots operated in a regulated framework created by OTHERS. No one should blame inexperienced pilots because they are inexperienced nor fatigued pilots for being fatigued. Such issues are properly discussed within the industry at the industry or regulatory level. It’s not fair to blame the fatigued/inexperienced pilot for errors while they operated within that framework.

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Gosh- they were both very young in general! It might not be correct in every case, but somehow I prefer it if at least one of the two pilots up the front is a bit more experienced and mature.

No point if one is experienced while the other is not - in an emergency that can quickly become effectively 1 pilot plus a bystander.

 

[Quickstatus]

Dont' forget the Norwegian Air 737Max which diverted to Iran after an emergency with an engine. It was stuck in Iran between 14 December and 22 Feb = 9 weeks. US sanctions initially prevented the export of technology to Iran. Eventually it was sorted.

And the hapless airline also operates the 787 with the troubled Trent 1000.

 

[JohnM]

Well, it looks like AA expects their MAX 8s to be back in the air by 15 July. I’ve just been notified of a flight change CUN-MIA on that date from a B737-800 to a B737-800 MAX 8.

 

[Saab34]

News just coming out now
-Production per month to drop to 42
-Boeing admits fault with erroneous MCAS

20% drop in production would probably see Virgins first delivery slip into next year now

 

[oz_mark]

Chinese aircraft lessor hits pause on 737 MAX order on safety fears
China Aircraft Leasing Group Holdings (CALC) has put its order for 100 Boeing 737 MAX jets temporarily on hold, until it is assured of the aircraft’s safety.

Boeing shares fall 4% after Bank of America downgrades stock on 737 Max production delays
Bank of America Merrill Lynch has cut its outlook on Boeing, saying the airline manufacturer's recent troubles with its 737 are worse than expected. Boeing shares tumbled 4% on the move.

...
A six month delay also means lower margins due to penalties owed to customers, weaker negotiating position with airlines as airlines consider cancellations, and operational inefficiencies from the production disruption

 

[QF WP]

Whilst I don't understand much of the technical side of it, this pilots video explaining the prelim report was damning about what he thinks happened...

 

[oz_mark]

Well the poor pilots became essentially defacto test pilots without an ejection seat and parachute. Apparently UA(ALPA) thinks they can, but human factors suggest that the best skills deteriorate in an emergency.

It would be interesting to get their take on how they would have handled it, rather than just saying they could have.

 

[jb747]

Whilst I don't understand much of the technical side of it, this pilots video explaining the prelim report was damning about what he thinks happened...

Good explanation of it all.

 

[Quickstatus]

It would be interesting to get their take on how they would have handled it, rather than just saying they could have.

Not much anyone can do without the luxury of altitude.

The trim wheels appear to have limited mechanical advantage - especially at high IAS, low altitude and aft yoke pressure. Needed to neutralise aft yoke to unload the Stabiliser jack screw before manually turning trim wheels. But need altitude to do that.

 

[Quickstatus]

News just coming out now
-Production per month to drop to 42
-Boeing admits fault with erroneous MCAS

20% drop in production would probably see Virgins first delivery slip into next year now

It’s good to be a late adopter. I read somewhere that QF also had a habit of adopting new design later in the production line

 

[woodborer]

Looks like it will be at least 3 months before they fly again.
Major air regulators to join FAA's review panel on Boeing's 737 MAX - Reuters

China confirmed on Tuesday it would join the review, while Canada, the United Arab Emirates, and Singapore previously said that they would join the panel. Officials told Reuters that Australia, EASA, Brazil, Indonesia and Ethiopia are also expected to take part.

Former National Transportation Safety Board Chairman Christopher Hart, who is chairing the review, told reporters on Friday that it would begin later in April and would take about 90 days.

 

[Berlin]

Major air regulators to join FAA's review panel on Boeing's 737 MAX - Reuters

Good. Having regulators from OUS countries involved will make me much more confident about whatever results come out of this. But unless things look very very different in a few years from now, I still will do what I can to avoid these (just for me personally).

 

[stm1sydney]

Questions:
1. Why did the pilots retract flaps at 1000ft (and not higher)?
2. Is that normal?

 

[jb747]

Questions:
1. Why did the pilots retract flaps at 1000ft (and not higher)?
2. Is that normal?

Most clean up profiles start at 1,000 ft, so that sounds quite normal.

 

[Quickstatus]

Why did they start cleaning up when left side stick shaker was active?