Ethiopian 737 Max 8 crash and Fallout

[suze2000]

Thing is, a plane disaster is always going to make front page news, so unlike a faulty car manufacture, it will prompt immediate investigation and remedy. If enough planes go down, airlines will start refusing to buy them (if they are not already).

I really feel Boeing really need to scrap the 737 and start a new line rather than try to fudge-fix this, because another disaster will cost them billions when they are sued and regardless of the ramp-up costs, it will be cheaper to start afresh. Airlines and their shareholders will not like it, but that's the bottom line. Or we will see Airbus as the only major plane maker standing.

 

[tgh]

Boeing are too big to fail + wouldn't be a good look on Donald's watch

 

[oz_mark]

Apparently, the idea that the next plane will be the FSA rather than the NMA is gaining traction.

FSA Is the Future Small Airplane.

 

[OATEK]

"When pressed on why Boeing pushed regulators to allow Max planes around the world to keep flying after the first crash in 2018, Muilenberg replied, "I think about that decision over and over again. If we knew then what we know now, we would have made a different decision." "

Boeing Chief To Families Of Crash Victims: 'We Are Sorry, Deeply And Truly'

Dennis Muilenburg was grilled about whether Boeing had a cozy relationship with the FAA and if the airline tried to conceal information about flaws in its onboard flight-control system, called MCAS.

www.npr.org

I doubt the "flying coffin" remark will appear in their future publicity!!

 

[oz_mark]

American and Southwest expecting March

Airlines expect 737 MAX grounding to last nearly a year

Two major US airlines announced plans Friday to pull the Boeing 737 MAX from their schedules into March, raising the prospect the plane could be out of service for nearly a full year.

edition.cnn.com

 

[drron]

Another report on the incompetence of the FAA.

FAA inspectors who worked on Boeing 737 Max training were unqualified, U.S. Office of Special Counsel says

Investigators say many Federal Aviation Administration inspectors who worked on pilot-training standards for the grounded Boeing 737 Max and other planes were themselves unqualified and insufficien…

www.chicagotribune.com

 

[codash1099]

American and Southwest expecting March

Airlines expect 737 MAX grounding to last nearly a year

Two major US airlines announced plans Friday to pull the Boeing 737 MAX from their schedules into March, raising the prospect the plane could be out of service for nearly a full year.

edition.cnn.com

Ryanair likewise

Ryanair expects first B737 Max delivery in March 2020 “at the earliest” – Business Traveller

The carrier says it now only expects to take delivery of 20 Max 200 aircraft in time for the summer 2020 season, down from the original 58…

www.businesstraveller.com

 

[drron]

Boeing suggests the MAX could be back in service by January.

Official: Boeing 737 MAX "Ungrounded" By FAA

The US Federal Aviation Administration has given the go-ahead for the Boeing 737 MAX to return to service. Here's what happens now.

onemileatatime.com

 

[hm520]

On an individual level - if Qantas were flying 737Max on domestic routes next year - who would actively avoid them?

 

[Moody]

If it was Qantas??? Yeah - I'd fly with them.

 

[PineappleSkip]

Most useful Persian term I learnt in Kabul - چرا که نه (sounds like shar-o neh) - why not? Flown an ET 737 Max before and found it excellent.

Cheers skip

 

[jb747]

Flown an ET 737 Max before and found it excellent.

Boeing didn't crash any during their initial testing either, but how did that work out?

 

[Mr Pumblechook]

On an individual level - if Qantas were flying 737Max on domestic routes next year - who would actively avoid them?

Perhaps a better question is when VA is flying the 737 MAX from 2021, who will actively avoid them?

 

[Melburnian1]

On an individual level - if Qantas were flying 737Max on domestic routes next year - who would actively avoid them?

Apart from AFfers and a relatively small percentage of others, most passengers wouldn't know what model/class of smaller aircraft it as until they were told or read the safety card. B744s and A380s: different case.

 

[jb747]

Apart from AFfers and a relatively small percentage of others, most passengers wouldn't know what model/class of smaller aircraft it as until they were told or read the safety card. B744s and A380s: different case.

That's true, except that a substantial group think that 767/777 and 330/340/350 are actually 747 & 380. Then there's the group that think 747=380.

But, you only need a small percentage to be put off by the MAX. 5% would make the difference between it being successful, and a total dud. Is 5% a big number to find in these days of internet news (and non news)?

 

[Melburnian1]

...

But, you only need a small percentage to be put off by the MAX. 5% would make the difference between it being successful, and a total dud. Is 5% a big number to find in these days of internet news (and non news)?

You are totally correct: easy to see five per cent put off, which is why to me the 'MAX' is a candidate for a renaming. Some less well informed passengers, or those to whom flying (domestically) is merely a 'train' or 'bus' service, won't then as easily make the connection that they can presently of 'Max = unsafe.'

With all its other troubles, surely VA management must still be nervous about its MAX order, deferred or not?

 

[serfty]

Perhaps a better question is when VA is flying the 737 MAX from 2021, who will actively avoid them?

With all its other troubles, surely VA management must still be nervous about its MAX order, deferred or not?

Well, if they ever arrive - VA's first delivery of MAX 8 (which is the aircraft this thread is about) is slated to be 2025.

(Max 10 in 2022)

 

[jb747]

Boeing complained, and the government sanctioned the Canadians over their rather nice FSA. That in turn was sold to Airbus, and is now the A220. At the time, Boeing's complaint was that it was taking sales from them, even though they didn't actually have an aircraft that was in the same size range. The upshot of that is that Airbus now have modern aircraft scaling from the 220, through the various 320 variations. Boeing have a geriatric wearing lots of makeup.

 

[PineappleSkip]

Boeing didn't crash any during their initial testing either, but how did that work out?

I have no idea if you’re referring to their initial testing. I claim to be a punter, and a consumer of cabins, not a staffer of coughpits. I’m not a Boeing apologist, if that’s where your barb is aimed. It was a shiny new plane, flying out of not so shiny ADD, and the experience at the time was about as good as an African airline gets.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I now, of course, think of my good luck on that flight every time I get aboard a 737, now outed as a tarted-up geriatric, as you note. I should also think of my good luck every time I cross an East Africa highway, I guess. I’d rate my chances of getting killed on one of those a lot higher than boarding an ill fated flight.

 

[jb747]

All true.

If nothing had been done, the 737 loss rate would have eventually scaled up (with all of the orders being delivered) to about 1 per month. That might still be better than the African highway, but it's unbelievably bad in the aviation world.