Ethiopian 737 Max 8 crash and Fallout

[JohnM]

I don't know how readable this will be. I don't subscribe to The West Australian since it deteriorated into a tabloid rag, so I can't access this article from any online source. But I do get the Saturday hard copy, so I took a pic of Geoffrey Thomas' latest scribbling.

He has a view at variance with many...

 

[jb747]

Remind me again of his flying experience.

 

[flyer89]

Remind me again of his flying experience.

He produces enough out of his backside that he could leave the earth under his own propulsion.

 

[jb747]

Current and former engineers directly involved with the evaluations or familiar with the document shared details of Boeing’s “System Safety Analysis” of MCAS, which The Seattle Times confirmed.

The safety analysis:

• Understated the power of the new flight control system, which was designed to swivel the horizontal tail to push the nose of the plane down to avert a stall. When the planes later entered service, MCAS was capable of moving the tail more than four times farther than was stated in the initial safety analysis document.
• Failed to account for how the system could reset itself each time a pilot responded, thereby missing the potential impact of the system repeatedly pushing the airplane’s nose downward.
• Assessed a failure of the system as one level below “catastrophic.” But even that “hazardous” danger level should have precluded activation of the system based on input from a single sensor — and yet that’s how it was designed.

“When you take a look at the original design of the MCAS system. I think in some cases, in the media, it has been reported or described as an anti-stall system, which it is not.” Muilenburg told reporters shortly after Boeing’s annual shareholder meeting. “It’s a system that’s designed to provide handling qualities for the pilot that meet pilot preferences.”

I guess Geoffrey didn't get the above quote from the CEO of Boeing.

I'd have to agree that the FO in this aircraft sounds terrible. But, he's probably representative of a vast percentage of the world's pilots. Boeing and Airbus have been selling their aircraft to CEOs who have zero knowledge of flying, on the basis that their aircraft are so easy to fly that your milkman could do it. In some cases they are correct...it's really easy until the slightest thing goes wrong. Which happens about 5 times per second.....

 

[RooFlyer]

Remind me again of his flying experience.

When pilots start writing for newspapers, I guess he'll be out of a job.

 

[JohnM]

There is one pilot who writes for the Oz - and he doesn't seem much better than Thomas...

 

[jb747]

I think it's a bit like politicians. If you find someone who wants the job, then that desire should immediately disqualify them.

 

[RooFlyer]

There is one pilot who writes for the Oz - and he doesn't seem much better than Thomas...

There you go

 

[JohnM]

There you go

But unfortunately it hasn't put either of them out of a job...

 

[Scarlett]

I suspect we'll see the B737-8 return to the skies next year sans the MAX. The nomenclature fits with other current Boeing models B787 and B777X.

I also wonder if we'll see them reengineered with the same 'sharklet' style winglets as the 737NG models, in an attempt to mask the model from the public. I wonder what the balance is between the publics distaste/distrust for the MAX and the claimed better fuel burn of the split scimitar winglets? (or if it's even quantifiable - how would you know that 2 or 3% of your customers are boycotting that plane versus the 0.5% better fuel burn numbers)

And taking a wider view:
- a much delayed and massively over budget 787 program
- the current MAX disaster
- ongoing 777X program issues

...is it time to burn those "If it's not Boeing, I'm not going" t-shirts? Especially seeing as it appears Boeing, the once great aerospace company, is really now just another corporate entity.

 

[jb747]

And taking a wider view:
- a much delayed and massively over budget 787 program
- the current MAX disaster
- ongoing 777X program issues

...is it time to burn those "If it's not Boeing, I'm not going" t-shirts? Especially seeing as it appears Boeing, the once great aerospace company, is really now just another corporate entity.

Don’t forget the issues that they had with the 747-8, and even worse the 767 tanker.

Their corporate behaviour is interesting. In the case of the tanker, the USAF had decided on the 330 tanker, but was effectively forced to change its choice by the politicians. The 330 has been in service with many air forces (including the RAAF) for years now, and it barely rates a mention. They convinced the tariff lover(s) that huge tariffs should be applied to Bombardier, even though Boeing made no aircraft that were in the same size range. Even better, when it had the rather unpredicted outcome of that program being sold to Airbus, they attempted to have tariffs applied to AB, even though the aircraft were going to be made inside the USA.

 

[oz_mark]

I don't know how readable this will be. I don't subscribe to The West Australian since it deteriorated into a tabloid rag, so I can't access this article from any online source. But I do get the Saturday hard copy, so I took a pic of Geoffrey Thomas' latest scribbling.

He has a view at variance with many...

I thought we'd got past this narrative.

Anyway, if you read the Indonesian report, no-one came out smelling of roses.

You could pick any of the participants, and say the report makes chilling reading.

 

[coriander]

Anyway, if you read the Indonesian report, no-one came out smelling of roses

Isn't that the concept of "Swiss cheese" holes lining up?

 

[Quickstatus]

Flown an ET 737 Max before and found it excellent.

Lucky then you were not on Flight ET302

 

[oz_mark]

Isn't that the concept of "Swiss cheese" holes lining up?

Interesting piece of swiss cheese that involved the manufacturer, the regulator, the airline, a repair centre, etc...

 

[jb747]

Isn't that the concept of "Swiss cheese" holes lining up?

True...and part of that concept is that the holes can vary in size, and consequence. MCAS itself was an entire block of cheese, which consisted mostly of air.

 

[PineappleSkip]

Lucky then you were not on Flight ET302

Yes, I made very that point in post #1339.

 

[Moody]

So a question for the pilots ..... what changes would make YOU willing to fly the MAX?

 

[Sabot]

Introduce the death penalty for directors of companies who have killed people through negligence. Watch the culture change overnight.

 

[suze2000]

Introduce the death penalty for directors of companies who have killed people through negligence. Watch the culture change overnight.

Interesting you should say this - the Union movement in Victoria has been campaigning for prison sentences for responsible parties when a death happens on a worksite. Because fining someone is a blow to their finances, but often not as much as victims would like. Whereas, being sent to prison seems much more of a deterrent. (To my mind, this should also apply to shoddy building practices such as what we saw with the flammable cladding disaster - go after the company directors personally, no pheonixing will save them then)