Ethiopian 737 Max 8 crash and Fallout

[jb747]

Not too much new here but interesting nevertheless:

I don't see this as unusual, though the engine shutdown rate seems odd. How does that engine behave in other (AB) installations. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see it having issues across the board, especially as it's a new and high performance type.

 

[I love to travel]

American Airlines extending max cancellations to August 2020.

 

[flychrisfly]

I don't see this as unusual, though the engine shutdown rate seems odd. How does that engine behave in other (AB) installations. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see it having issues across the board, especially as it's a new and high performance type.

Yeah, it's hard to know whether the reported incidents are bad or normal. What is a normal incident rate for a newly built model? Or even an old one? Having said that, the descriptions of the incidents don't look great, and 4% does seem high to me.

 

[jb747]

Yeah, it's hard to know whether the reported incidents are bad or normal. What is a normal incident rate for a newly built model? Or even an old one? Having said that, the descriptions of the incidents don't look great, and 4% does seem high to me.

It's not 4% of flights. That would be terrible. It's 4% of the aircraft have had an issue at some point. That's a low number. Give them a couple of years in service, and I'd expect 100% of them to have had issues.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Looks like more problems.

737 Max: Debris found in new planes' fuel tanks

The discovery raises fresh concerns about potential safety issues for the US plane-making giant.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Tropic]

Also read about issues with FOD inside 787 airframes including metal shavings and unsafe internal wiring harnesses inside fuel tanks ....
But less concerned about news regarding 737max nowdays as I will never fly on one.

 

[jb747]

Also read about issues with FOD inside 787 airframes including metal shavings and unsafe internal wiring harnesses inside fuel tanks ....
But less concerned about news regarding 737max nowdays as I will never fly on one.

You probably aren’t going to be doing much flying...

I recall a mate who flew the S2G telling me that they found a torch that had been dropped within the aircraft structure, marked as belonging to Grumman. It had been cut half way through by the control cable that it was constricting. An Air Force supposedly found a vacuum cleaner, complete, within a C130 fuel tank.

There is no doubt that Boeing has dropped the ball in the most appalling way. But, go back a few years, and Boeing produced excellent aircraft. About all that changed in the interim was the management.

 

[Quickstatus]

Leaving tools insitu is not confined to Boeing.
Happens occasionally to surgeons as well.

 

[Tropic]

You probably aren’t going to be doing much flying..

Dont worry JB, I reckon still lots of other options out there to get where I need to . Used to be boeing or Im no going... but since boeing dropped the 737max ball, my ride of choice these days is french - esp A321, A330 or A350. Ok a 737 here and there.

 

[Tropic]

About all that changed in the interim was the management

Yep, McDonnell Douglas bought Boeing with Boeing's money...as the saying goes.
Sadly its a case study of how a genteel STEM/ aeronautical engineering focused company was subverted by a brash, profit and sales, marketing driven management culture. And the real legacy of that, is the 737max disaster.

 

[serfty]

Looks like more problems.

737 Max: Debris found in new planes' fuel tanks

The discovery raises fresh concerns about potential safety issues for the US plane-making giant.

www.bbc.co.uk

It seems they have found FOD in over half of 737 MAX fuel tanks inspected.

From Boeing Finds Debris in Fuel Tanks of Many Undelivered 737 MAX Jets | usnews.com

(Reuters) - Boeing Co has found debris in the fuel tanks of dozens of undelivered 737 MAX jets amid ongoing inspections as the Chicago-based planemaker struggles to restore the trust of airlines and the wider public in the grounded fleet.Boeing found debris in the fuel tanks of about 35 aircraft, a company spokesman confirmed on Friday. A person familiar with the matter told Reuters that more than 50% of the undelivered 737 MAX jets inspected thus far have had debris found in them.

Incredible!!

There is no doubt that Boeing has dropped the ball in the most appalling way. But, go back a few years, and Boeing produced excellent aircraft. About all that changed in the interim was the management.

Yep, McDonnell Douglas bought Boeing with Boeing's money...as the saying goes.
Sadly its a case study of how a genteel STEM/ aeronautical engineering focused company was subverted by a brash, profit and sales, marketing driven management culture. And the real legacy of that, is the 737max disaster.

I'm thinking Boeing lost the plot once it was decided administration was more important than design & manufacturing. One indication of this was the decision to move HQ to Chicago.

Under Muilenburg, focus moved to cost-cutting, cost-squeezing and management - such corporate culture doesn’t trickle up from the mail room, this corporate culture was established in Chicago.

I’m suspecting that by booting Muilenburg along with the voluntary actions and disclosures undertaken by Boeing, they are hoping to present an indication of cultural realignment. One of being back to safe and sure design as Boeing's future long-term course.

If that’s not done successfully, Airbus will eat their lunch.

 

[drron]

To be convinced the management culture has changed I believe they need to close the Chicago Head Office and move back to the Seatle area.

 

[OATEK]

It seems they have found FOD in over half of 737 MAX fuel tanks inspected.

From Boeing Finds Debris in Fuel Tanks of Many Undelivered 737 MAX Jets | usnews.com



Incredible!!



I'm thinking Boeing lost the plot once it was decided administration was more important than design & manufacturing. One indication of this was the decision to move HQ to Chicago.

Under Muilenburg, focus moved to cost-cutting, cost-squeezing and management - such corporate culture doesn’t trickle up from the mail room, this corporate culture was established in Chicago.

I’m suspecting that by booting Muilenburg along with the voluntary actions and disclosures undertaken by Boeing, they are hoping to present an indication of cultural realignment. One of being back to safe and sure design as Boeing's future long-term course.

If that’s not done successfully, Airbus will eat their lunch.

An in-law spent 9 months in Toulouse back in the 000's inspecting the A380s to be delivered to QANTAS, including the fuel tanks. He had done similar inspection work on the 747 in Seattle a decade or two earlier. His report was that both lines were equally well managed. Now BOEING has trashed their reputation.

 

[Quickstatus]

What was the reason to have head office in a place remote to where they build their aircraft?

Im not sure that moving head office will work because Boeing builds aircraft in more than one location and many parts come from non Boeing sources

 

[suze2000]

The Age this morning reporting that QF are considering picking up a bunch of MAXs on the cheap because nobody wants them now. If AJ was looking for the best possible way to trash the brand, he's looking in the right direction. *eyeroll*

 

[esseeeayeenn]

The Age this morning reporting that QF are considering picking up a bunch of MAXs on the cheap because nobody wants them now. If AJ was looking for the best possible way to trash the brand, he's looking in the right direction. *eyeroll*

I suspect AJ's cynical view will be "Well VA are buying some too so even if PAX are furious and terrified they will have no choice".

 

[Tropic]

Good summary of reasons why Boeing is where it is...

The 1997 merger that paved the way for the Boeing 737 Max crisis

Only now, with the plane indefinitely grounded, are we beginning to see the scale of its effects.

qz.com

 

[esseeeayeenn]

if anyone is interested in campaigning to discourage QF from buying the MAX PM me.

 

[suze2000]

Sure, but they are not going to care about me, I only fly QF twice per year on points from my CC.

 

[Tropic]

If QF go there, I'll be avoiding like the pl...corona virus!