General COVID-19 Vaccine Discussion

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Waleed Aly cut off by The Project producers in COVID vaccine rant​

The Project got very heated during a debate about COVID-19 on Tuesday night’s episode.

Waleed Aly was cut off by producers in the middle of a discussion with co-host Rachel Corbett about the vaccine.

During a segment highlighting the percentage of Australians willing to get the vaccine, with some incredibly unwilling, Aly and Corbett got into a debate about how far the “no jab no play” idea would go.

“This is such a good idea for travel,” said Corbett. “I don’t mind if it becomes something for everyday life. If you have to have the little tick in your passport to go to work.

“If you can’t have it, then you can still go into work because we don’t need to be 100% vaccinated but we need to be decent percentage. Some people might not be able to get the vaccination. The idea we can’t go into work if we haven’t got vaccinated, we’re in a pandemic.”

Aly disagreed. “Hang on. I don’t want employers to have that much power over your decision,” he said.

“I feel like it’s sensible and let’s get the jab and get into work,” Corbett insisted.

“There’s a difference between saying it’s sensible and encourage people to take a vaccine and a measure that could have all kinds of consequences down the track,” Aly fired back.

“What about the consequences to another outbreak happening or a business closing down and all those kind of things?” countered Corbett.

“To me the consequences of an employer being able to dictate your health decisions is profound,” said Aly. “Imagine if they made rules like that about things you didn’t agree with, it would be frightening.”

“In this situation your business could shut down and that’s been a huge problem. If that could keep your business open, that’s reasonable?” said Corbett.

Aly got halfway through his reply before admitting producers had told him to zip it.

“I think that’s a fair point. I’m being told I have to shut up now,” he concluded.

Waleed cut off by producers during vaccine rant

The Project got very heated during a debate about COVID-19 on Tuesday night’s episode.

www.news.com.au

 

[Pushka]

Waleed Aly cut off by The Project producers in COVID vaccine rant​

The Project got very heated during a debate about COVID-19 on Tuesday night’s episode.

Waleed Aly was cut off by producers in the middle of a discussion with co-host Rachel Corbett about the vaccine.

During a segment highlighting the percentage of Australians willing to get the vaccine, with some incredibly unwilling, Aly and Corbett got into a debate about how far the “no jab no play” idea would go.

“This is such a good idea for travel,” said Corbett. “I don’t mind if it becomes something for everyday life. If you have to have the little tick in your passport to go to work.

“If you can’t have it, then you can still go into work because we don’t need to be 100% vaccinated but we need to be decent percentage. Some people might not be able to get the vaccination. The idea we can’t go into work if we haven’t got vaccinated, we’re in a pandemic.”

Aly disagreed. “Hang on. I don’t want employers to have that much power over your decision,” he said.

“I feel like it’s sensible and let’s get the jab and get into work,” Corbett insisted.

“There’s a difference between saying it’s sensible and encourage people to take a vaccine and a measure that could have all kinds of consequences down the track,” Aly fired back.

“What about the consequences to another outbreak happening or a business closing down and all those kind of things?” countered Corbett.

“To me the consequences of an employer being able to dictate your health decisions is profound,” said Aly. “Imagine if they made rules like that about things you didn’t agree with, it would be frightening.”

“In this situation your business could shut down and that’s been a huge problem. If that could keep your business open, that’s reasonable?” said Corbett.

Aly got halfway through his reply before admitting producers had told him to zip it.

“I think that’s a fair point. I’m being told I have to shut up now,” he concluded.

Waleed cut off by producers during vaccine rant

The Project got very heated during a debate about COVID-19 on Tuesday night’s episode.

www.news.com.au

It will be very difficult for employers in aged care homes and caring for people at risk. Surely the influenza policy which is used on many work environments will be robust enough for Covid?

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

It will be very difficult for employers in aged care homes and caring for people at risk. Surely the influenza policy which is used on many work environments will be robust enough for Covid?

It’s a difficult moral discussion.

Covid policy has seen a lot of shifting of what mandatory actions are reasonable. Some unreasonable action pre-covid might be considered more reasonable now.

Eg Emergency powers.

I have seen some news sites indicating certain sectors might be easier to make the vaccine mandatory, but I have not noticed governments pulling the trigger with their own workforce (eg public hospitals ie on the covid vaccine personal account thread, just a casual query on the day).

Different people consider a range of issues (some not even relating to the vaccine specifically) from their own common sense standpoint eg full TGA approval status v standard provisional approval, the length of time of development/use of flu jab v covid jab, type of vaccine technology, how it affects my business ability to stay open, can I travel domestically/internationally, etc.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Two aged care residents given COVID-19 vaccine ‘overdose’​

Two elderly Australians have been given four times the recommended dose of the COVID-19 vaccine at a Queensland aged care home.

A man, 88, is in hospital as a precaution and a woman, 94, also received the extra dosage at Holy Spirit Carseldine.

The doctor has been stood down from Australia’s COVID-19 vaccine rollout program after giving the two patients the incorrect dose.

Two elderly residents given vaccine ‘overdose’

The Queensland Government is demanding the Prime Minister holds an emergency National Cabinet meeting after two vaccine overdoses were administered in a nursing home.

www.news.com.au

 

[Must...Fly!]

Seriously.

Very poor attention to detail.

Good to see the CMO reference the study about the roll out in Scotland I linked in the last couple days. Plenty to be optimistic about, at least domestically.

 

[Toula92122]

I've had a few interesting discussions amongst my peer group about the international border closures. The typical response seems to be that they are more than happy with ScoMo's decision to keep us locked up. Usually the conversation ends with I don't want to go anywhere anyway. The focus seems to be on the needs of self rather than any thought of the broader economy. There does not seem to be much thought given to whats really going on economically and who is going to pay the bill for the never ending government subsidies.

I intend to take the CV vaccine at first opportunity. However I have no intention of taking the flu jab. I never have and have not had the flu or a cold since 1997.

 

[jakeseven7]

Two aged care residents given COVID-19 vaccine ‘overdose’​

Two elderly Australians have been given four times the recommended dose of the COVID-19 vaccine at a Queensland aged care home.

A man, 88, is in hospital as a precaution and a woman, 94, also received the extra dosage at Holy Spirit Carseldine.

The doctor has been stood down from Australia’s COVID-19 vaccine rollout program after giving the two patients the incorrect dose.

Two elderly residents given vaccine ‘overdose’

The Queensland Government is demanding the Prime Minister holds an emergency National Cabinet meeting after two vaccine overdoses were administered in a nursing home.

www.news.com.au

Oops sorry everyone, love from QLD Health

We just keep on giving

 

[james4321]

Oops sorry everyone, love from QLD Health

We just keep on giving

Not QLD Health at fault here apparently:

Lincoln Hopper, chief executive of St Vincent’s Care Services, said the GP was employed by Healthcare Australia, an agency contracted by the Commonwealth to carry out COVID-19 vaccinations.

 

[dajop]

Two aged care residents given COVID-19 vaccine ‘overdose’​

Two elderly Australians have been given four times the recommended dose of the COVID-19 vaccine at a Queensland aged care home.

A man, 88, is in hospital as a precaution and a woman, 94, also received the extra dosage at Holy Spirit Carseldine.

The doctor has been stood down from Australia’s COVID-19 vaccine rollout program after giving the two patients the incorrect dose.

Two elderly residents given vaccine ‘overdose’

The Queensland Government is demanding the Prime Minister holds an emergency National Cabinet meeting after two vaccine overdoses were administered in a nursing home.

www.news.com.au

A bit poor of politicians (Qld Premier) and News to make this into political point scoring exercise. No wonder we dislike politicians and distrust the mainstream media.

An individual stuffed up - for whatever reason. The system caught it. The system will learn. It's pathetic of anyone to try and make this a political issue. Truly pathetic.

 

[Lynda2475]

I was curious as to why vaccines are shipped in multi-dose vials, rather than individual doses?

Multi dose vials, creates more opportunities for dosing errors to be made and also leads to more wastage if an open vial.is not fully utilised within x time period of opening.

When I have had vaccinations for travel I.e. rabies yellow fever, hepB etc I've watched the nurse open a new vial fill the syringe then bin the empty vial. How common are multiple dose vials for other vaccines?

Also I understood that the initial Pfizer vaccines were only being administered in hospital setting and not via GPs , GPs weren't supposed to come into play until Oxford roll out started.

Something has gone wrong with the training in Qld to get the dosage so wrong.

 

[NM]

Also I understood that the initial Pfizer vaccines were only being administered in hospital setting and not via GPs , GPs weren't supposed to come into play until Oxford roll out started.

The GP was employed to administer the vaccine to aged care recipients in line with the current roll-out plans, which includes front-line workers and aged care residents. This was not a GP administering the vaccine at their local GP clinic to one of their regular patients.

 

[dajop]

I noticed an email in my notifications from the OGTR (Office of the Gene Technology Regulator) that Janssen-Cilag has applied to both OGTR and the TGA for approvals of its vaccine. This is the Johnson and Johnson vaccine.

 

[Port Power]

I was curious as to why vaccines are shipped in multi-dose vials, rather than individual doses?

Multi dose vials, creates more opportunities for dosing errors to be made and also leads to more wastage if an open vial.is not fully utilised within x time period of opening.

Just think about the size and quantity of the deliveries if single-dose vials! That would be an ever bigger logistical problem, not to mention lack of freezer space.

Besides which multiple people are being vaccinated in one sitting, not the occasional single patient.

 

[Gremlin]

I was curious as to why vaccines are shipped in multi-dose vials, rather than individual doses?

...

Something has gone wrong with the training in Qld to get the dosage so wrong.

Responding to these two comments.

First, there is a worldwide shortage of borosilicate glass. Borosilicate glass is basically the only material you'd use to ship vaccines and other medications in liquid form because it does not react with the contents of the vial. For some reason, the world's demand for borosilicate glass has gone through the roof in the last few months. There is a significant lead time and cost to building new production capability. Once you start the process you HAVE to keep it going - think of it like a cement mixer, once it starts you have to keep it turning - and the spike in demand is not expected to be long term, so hence the few producers are reticent to build more capacity. Hence, vaccines are being shipped in multi-dose vials, not just to Australia but worldwide. The alternative is that the rollout worldwide will take much, much longer.

Second, the training was undertaken by the Commonwealth, as the vaccine rollout within Aged Care Facilities is a Federal responsibility. I've heard more than a few people talk about the significant difference in quality between the Commonwealth training program and those of Qld Health, NSW Health and Victoria's Dept of Health (no views on other states). It saddens me that our most vulnerable might not be getting the same standard of care as the rest of us.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Also I understood that the initial Pfizer vaccines were only being administered in hospital setting and not via GPs , GPs weren't supposed to come into play until Oxford roll out started.

That is not correct.

Something has gone wrong with the training in Qld to get the dosage so wrong.

You are being very presumptuous

Has anyone else in QLD or anywhere else received a higher than recommended dose, or is this a one off?

 

[RooFlyer]

A bit poor of politicians (Qld Premier) and News to make this into political point scoring exercise. No wonder we dislike politicians and distrust the mainstream media.

Yes. The Queensland Premier pointing the finger at the Prime Minister. I wonder if she takes responsibility for every stuff up in Queensland hospitals.?

That is not correct

Are you sure? it’s certainly the case in Tasmania (Pfizer only on hospital settings).

Edit: corrected below.

 

[RooFlyer]

Has anyone else in QLD or anywhere else received a higher than recommended dose, or is this a one off?

Yes, according to ABC radio just now. In the early clinical trials higher doses were given but it was found that the lower dose was optimal. But I think on at least one of the current cases, it was 4x recommended, which sounds like nearly a whole vial went in. Unforgivable from the GP, if true. That’s not a training error.

 

[Gremlin]

Yes. The Queensland Premier pointing the finger at the Prime Minister. I wonder if she takes responsibility for every stuff up in Queensland hospitals.?

I think if there are material differences in the quality of training being provided to those delivering the state-administered vaccines and those delivering the federal-administered vaccines and those material differences have the potential to lead to different standards of care, then it absolutely should be called out.

From my perspective, we are *all* entitled to the best possible standard of vaccine administration regardless of whether we are a nursing home resident or not.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Yes, according to ABC radio just now. In the early clinical trials higher doses were given but it was found that the lower dose was optimal. But I think on at least one of the current cases, it was 4x recommended, which sounds like nearly a whole vial went in. Unforgivable from the GP, if true. That’s not a training error.

Sorry I meant specifically during the current Australian rollout. Higher doses were given during the trials.

I made the same presumption from what the CMO/Minister said, in that I think a whole vial was used.

If anyone wants to familiarise themselves with the training package

COVID-19 vaccination training program

Information about the mandatory training for those involved in providing COVID-19 vaccines.

www.health.gov.au

Specifically

Core COVID-19 training modules will cover:​

• COVID-19 introduction
• handling and storage
• communication and purpose
• multi-dose vial (MDV) training
• documentation and reporting
• safety and surveillance monitoring and reporting for adverse events following immunisation

Either the GP hasn't done the training, or has done it and has carelessly and/or negligently delivered the wrong dose.

I will add that a family member who is a GP and has completed the above Commonwealth training modules was absolutely stunned to hear of what happened in Brisbane and at a loss to explain how it could occur, having done the training.

Post automatically merged: Feb 24, 2021

I think if there are material differences in the quality of training being provided to those delivering the state-administered vaccines and those delivering the federal-administered vaccines and those material differences have the potential to lead to different standards of care, then it absolutely should be called out.

From my perspective, we are *all* entitled to the best possible standard of vaccine administration regardless of whether we are a nursing home resident or not.

Could you please outline the actual differences in the training, or provide a link describing a state specific module?

 

[Must...Fly!]

Are you sure? it’s certainly the case in Tasmania (Pfizer only on hospital settings).

Pfizer does not need to be kept at -80c until it is given. Too much to copy and paste here, but FDA guidelines are linked below and outline storage requirements. It is most definitely available to be administered in places other than a hospital. In any case, I don't think one would regard an aged care home as a hospital setting?

https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download