General Discussion/Q&A on Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[TheRealTMA]

Lots of people keen to get back to the gym, however, laboratory swabs of typical gym equipment has shown

"The average exercise bike harbours 39 times more bacteria than a cafeteria tray. Typical free weights have 362 times more germs than a toilet seat. And the treadmill you're running on averages 74 times more bacteria than a typical public bathroom faucet."

Hmm, and people take and use their phones there, after their hands have touched all the equipment and bring them home.

Wonder how many little epicentres of CV breakouts will surround gym usage?

Could nearly half of those with Covid-19 have no idea they are infected?

As studies confirm many infected people show no symptoms, contact tracing and face masks assume even greater importance

www.theguardian.com

“In fact, all bacterial, viral and parasitic infections – ranging from malaria to HIV – have a certain proportion of asymptomatic carriers. Research has even shown that at any one time, all of us are infected with between eight and 12 viruses, without showing any symptoms.”

Speculations on the clinical significance of asymptomatic viral infections

A detailed understanding of asymptomatic chronic viral infections is critical to analyse their pathogenesis, assess the severity and burden of disease…

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[JohnPhelan]

I remember when Prince Charles developed the illness and later Boris, both said after 7 days they did not need to isolate. Of course ongoing symptoms keep some people unwell much longer but not infectious.

That's because the NHS requirement was 7 days quarantine after onset of symptoms. There has been much discussion about why the NHS was advising a 7 day quarantine in the UK, when most other nations were requiring 14.

 

[Pushka]

That's because the NHS requirement was 7 days quarantine after onset of symptoms. There has been much discussion about why the NHS was advising a 7 day quarantine in the UK, when most other nations were requiring 14.

Yes. That's right.

 

[JohnM]

Lots of people keen to get back to the gym, however, laboratory swabs of typical gym equipment has shown

"The average exercise bike harbours 39 times more bacteria than a cafeteria tray. Typical free weights have 362 times more germs than a toilet seat. And the treadmill you're running on averages 74 times more bacteria than a typical public bathroom faucet."

Hmm, and people take and use their phones there, after their hands have touched all the equipment and bring them home.

Wonder how many little epicentres of CV breakouts will surround gym usage?

Well, I can't wait to get amongst the greeblies when gyms reopen in WA next Saturday. I've been going to gyms for 20-odd years and never had a day sick in that time.

 

[p--and--t]

Well, I can't wait to get amongst the greeblies when gyms reopen in WA next Saturday. I've been going to gyms for 20-odd years and never had a day sick in that time.

There's a first time for everything. (Including first pandemic of Covid-19 in recorded history )

 

[Pushka]

Well, I can't wait to get amongst the greeblies when gyms reopen in WA next Saturday. I've been going to gyms for 20-odd years and never had a day sick in that time.

Our gyms open today with limited numbers. Well, most gyms but not MrPs. They are staffed by sweet young things and he has given them a week to open or he will cancel his 20+ year of membership and try something else.

They are the kind of gym who send out feedback questions and ask - Does the staff greet you on arrival - MrPs response - Are you kidding? They don't even want you there as it means work for them. Go to the counter to ask a question and they almost sigh on seeing you there.
Changerooms and showers off limits.

 

[blackcat20]

I havent skipped the gym for this long ever, now even when I had a baby.... Definitely looking forward to getting back, though I have enjoyed a good mix of workouts at home over the last few months.

 

[Pushka]

I havent skipped the gym for this long ever, now even when I had a baby.... Definitely looking forward to getting back, though I have enjoyed a good mix of workouts at home over the last few months.

I have a funny story I can relate now. Covid and gym closures. . I enjoy the gym for stretching - it's an age thing - and squats are the best for developing core muscles etc. I'm sure you know the drill. Anyways I just simply forgot, in the midst of all the Covid carp, to keep doing squats and my back was starting to kill me. I was using a heat bag every morning that helped. Then my son watched me pick up his baby and said I was doing it all wrong. I gave him one of my "what would you know" looks then realised exactly what he meant. Now the weird thing is, when my other son was the same age, (9 months) I picked him up badly too and ruptured a disc in my back. And the son telling me off last week had watched me do that and remembered me screaming in pain as he was five! I later had to have neurosurgery. Scarred him for life I think.

That's not the funny bit. The last time I used the heating pad a few days ago, I heated it up too much and burnt my back about the size - of a heat bag. The issue being that because of the surgery, I have no 'skin' sensation in my lower back because of nerve damage and didn't even know I'd burnt it. I had a rather large weepy patch last week but it's just about done now. I dare not go to the doctor to check it out as it was all rather stupid.

Life is just one big cascade of events. Butterfly principle.

 

[PineappleSkip]

Changerooms and showers off limits.

Can see additional benefits of social distancing in lifts

cheers skip

 

[RooFlyer]

This has just been released by Medical authorities in Singapore.
Academy of Medicine Singapore
“ Based on the accumulated data since the start of the COVID-19 pandemic, the infectious period of SARS-CoV-2 in symptomatic individuals may begin around 2 days before the onset of symptoms, and persists for about 7 - 10 days after the onset of symptoms. Active viral replication drops quickly after the first week”

Perhaps we need not be so worried about those late positives from overseas travelers after all ?

My bolding.

I read it, but I didn't understand the bolded bit. Are they saying that the viral replication drops because of the body's antibody defenses, or because the virus just 'runs out of steam'? The implication I got was the latter. From my limited remembrance of some uni lectures many years ago, I can't see why virus would happen to run out of steam in its ability to infect more cells after, say a week in the same carrier, absent some agent fighting or suppressing it.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

My bolding.

I read it, but I didn't understand the bolded bit. Are they saying that the viral replication drops because of the body's antibody defenses, or because the virus just 'runs out of steam'? The implication I got was the latter. From my limited remembrance of some uni lectures many years ago, I can't see why virus would happen to run out of steam in its ability to infect more cells after, say a week in the same carrier, absent some agent fighting or suppressing it.

This may provide some insight:

“At some time quite early in infection, our ‘innate immune system’ detects there’s a virus infection and mounts an innate immune response. This is not the virus-specific, ‘acquired immune response’ with which people are generally familiar (i.e. antibodies) but rather a broad, non-specific, anti-viral response (characterised by interferon and cytokines, small proteins that have the side effect of causing many of the symptoms: fever, headaches, muscle pain). This response serves two purposes: to slow down the replication and spread of the virus, keeping us alive until the ‘acquired immune response’ kicks in (which, for a virus we haven’t seen, is about 2 to 3 weeks) and to call-up and commission the ‘acquired immune response’ which will stop and finally clear the infection, as well as laying-down immune memory to allow a faster response if we are infected again in the future (this is the basis of the expected immunity in survivors and of vaccination).

“With COVID-19, these two arms of the immune system (innate and acquired) obviously work well for 80% of the population who recover from more or less mild influenza-like illness.

“In older people, or people with immunodeficiencies, the activation of the acquired immune system may be delayed. This means that the virus can carry on replicating and spreading in the body, causing chaos and damage as it does, but there’s another consequence. Another job of the acquired immune system is to stand-down the innate immune system; until that’s done the innate immune response will keep increasing as the virus replicates and spreads. Part of the innate immune response is to cause ‘inflammation’. That is useful in containing the virus early in an infection but can result in widespread damage of uninfected tissue (we call this a ‘bystander effect’) if it becomes too large and uncontrolled, a situation named ‘cytokine storm’ when it was first seen with SARS and avian influenza H5N1. It is difficult to manage clinically, requiring intensive care and treatment and carries with it high risk of death.

expert reaction to questions about COVID-19 and viral load | Science Media Centre

 

[RooFlyer]

This may provide some insight:

Thanks; the first para especially interesting. But it doesn't clear up my wondering about the Singapore paper - whether the viral replication slows down after a while due to the body's defences OR, as I read it, by some sort of viral exhaustion. I may be totally mis-reading it of course and it might simply be the body's defences at work. What's your take on the paper's wording?

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Thanks; the first para especially interesting. But it doesn't clear up my wondering about the Singapore paper - whether the viral replication slows down after a while due to the body's defences OR, as I read it, by some sort of viral exhaustion. I may be totally mis-reading it of course and it might simply be the body's defences at work. What's your take on the paper's wording?

My take on the Singapore paper is that it does not actually discuss why the viral load drops, just that it drops and the rate of dropping.

This is why I provided the different link as it discusses the why.

Which part of the paper makes you think that they are implying that the virus just 'runs out of steam'?

 

[RooFlyer]

Just the way it was written ... they just say the rate drops, without saying why, so I read it as "drops [without any external process]". Perhaps they didn't need to say "drops due to the body's fightback" because it was bleeding obvious.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Just the way it was written ... they just say the rate drops, without saying why, so I read it as "drops [without any external process]". Perhaps they didn't need to say "drops due to the body's fightback" because it was bleeding obvious.

Without effective treatments and as I think this is more that this paper was on the period of infectivity, then yes I think you latest conclusion is the right one. Especially after reading your question I had a bit of a look to inform myself and came across the link that I posted which discussed it.

The Irish Paper, reference 9, did discuss a little on treatments.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Herd immunity... evidently the guesses on when this could be achieved is anywhere from 60 to 90 % of a given population.

 

[Flashback]

I already knew this a week ago, but now that it's been formally announced..... face coverings will be mandatory in England as of Monday June 15. No legal way to enforce, but they're using the conditions of carriage of the various operators to enforce that way and will use the British Transport Police to enforce/fine people too. London continues to progress towards being a great place to live.......

 

[Pushka]

I already knew this a week ago, but now that it's been formally announced..... face coverings will be mandatory in England as of Monday June 15. No legal way to enforce, but they're using the conditions of carriage of the various operators to enforce that way and will use the British Transport Police to enforce/fine people too. London continues to progress towards being a great place to live.......

I don't think this is a bad thing as long as people are educated about how to wear them and not touch them. It would save to a degree from other people who are germy, spraying anything on others. I'd be ok if this was done in Australia too. And if those demos go ahead they'd damn well better wear them.

A lady in tears this morning having had her husbands funeral recently when the numbers were 10. She had to tell so many long time friends that they could not attend and the funeral directors were stopping people even being in the gardens with the ceremony inside. Yet on Saturday hundreds/thousands of people are going to be allowed to gather and they have already said that no fines will be issued.

While I agree with the peaceful demonstration, It is this kind of blatant disregard of the impact where such allowances are given, that make the most law abiding person get very angry at their injustice and just think stuff it.

 

[Flashback]

I don't think this is a bad thing as long as people are educated about how to wear them and not touch them. It would save to a degree from other people who are germy, spraying anything on others. I'd be ok if this was done in Australia too. And if those demos go ahead they'd damn well better wear them.

A lady in tears this morning having had her husbands funeral recently when the numbers were 10. She had to tell so many long time friends that they could not attend and the funeral directors were stopping people even being in the gardens with the ceremony inside. Yet on Saturday hundreds/thousands of people are going to be allowed to gather and they have already said that no fines will be issued.

While I agree with the peaceful demonstration, It is this kind of blatant disregard of the impact where such allowances are given, that make the most law abiding person get very angry at their injustice and just think stuff it.

That's the thing though isn't it, if watching people 'wear' these masks to date is anything to go by; most of the time it will be spent on their chin, in their back pocket, etc.

 

[JessicaTam]

I don't think this is a bad thing as long as people are educated about how to wear them and not touch them. It would save to a degree from other people who are germy, spraying anything on others. I'd be ok if this was done in Australia too. And if those demos go ahead they'd damn well better wear them.

A lady in tears this morning having had her husbands funeral recently when the numbers were 10. She had to tell so many long time friends that they could not attend and the funeral directors were stopping people even being in the gardens with the ceremony inside. Yet on Saturday hundreds/thousands of people are going to be allowed to gather and they have already said that no fines will be issued.

While I agree with the peaceful demonstration, It is this kind of blatant disregard of the impact where such allowances are given, that make the most law abiding person get very angry at their injustice and just think stuff it.

In Melbourne the police have made it very clear that if there are more than 20 people the protesters contravene social distancing requirements, the organisers will be fined. The police have conceded, however, that it would be impractical to enforce the CMO's directive on everyone attending.

Edit: updated info.