Just read the thread through and some comments:
XPT trains:
Built in the 80's based on the UK's High Speed Train (which was introduced mid 70's).
The UK versions are still going strong (due to start to be retired in 2 years) but have been completely rebuilt & overhauled a number of times.
XPT is old tired stock which should have gone after 30 years but there is nothing to replace it. It is also running on rail track which gets pounded by heavy coal freights (hence the cement mixer feel of the ride).
UK HST runs at 125mph track. Getting 125kph out of the Aussie track safely and along the whole route is rare on the country lines.
SNCF TGV Services:
Numbers quoted for 2010 do not take into account the 2 new lines completed since then.
These are dedicated lines at enormous cost which are losing money hand over fist.
The new TGVs are nice - some of the older TGVs have the same tired feel of the XPT.
Paris-Lyon TGV is not non stop except one a day.
Also, if on a rail pass, your chance of getting a reservation on a TGV is almost non-existant as they only allocate less than 5 seats for Eurail & Interail passes per whole train. They would rather run an empty train than fill it with rail pas holders.
DB ICE services:
Yes 3.20 Frankfurt (Main) to Munich but most of the route is not dedicated high speed line (HSL). Cologne Frankfurt is a HSL and the distance of 190km takes 75 minutes on the ICE.
No points system on DB but major stations have 1st Class lounges (and now allow 1st Class Eurail & Interail passhofders in (at last).
Still the the best high speed train system in Europe in my opinion.
Eurostar services:
Like the above, the Eurostars recently were getting very tired and tatty inside.
New Siemens built Velaro sets are coming online now and the older 1990s sets are being refurbished or scrapped.
The complaint about it being boring as it is going underground???
It goes through this thing called the Channel Tunnel (the "Chunnel") underground so you don't get wet. It also is the tunnels for less than 15% of the trip.
Brussels & Paris in around 2 hrs is not bad including the stops and you go central city to central city without the commute to the airport, etc. Gare de Nord Paris is not flash, Brussels is Brussels but at least London St Pancras is a cracker, and has that champagne bar
All HSLs and the Syd-Cbr-Mel corridor:
All the fast trains noted above have the population density and other infrastructure to justify them (though the SNCF version is debatable as they slowly implode with 1970s attitudes and work practises) - yes I am an ex-Pom and my attitude to the French may be affected by my heritage.
Say you built Oz HSL at a cost of 114bn or whatever that last figure quoted was. No overruns, no subsidies.
Amortise it over 30 years. That is $3.8bn a year.
Add 1 million users a year to Canberra (please tell me why 1 million people fly to Canberra every year???).
That at would be a cost of $3,800 for every rail passenger just to cover the build cost.
Add a a little bit of interest on the money borrowed. Let's be really pie in the sky and say the interest is only 1% per annum.
Thats another $1.14bn a year or $1,140 per passenger trip.
Running costs, staff, maintenance, upgrades. Say $2bn a year (or another $2,000 per passenger).
Add it all up. $6.94bn a year or $6,940 per passenger.
Get the the cost down to $200 per passenger??? (about a normal Syd-Mel flight cost):
= 6940/200 X 1,000,000
= 34,700,000 passengers a year to match current prices (or 95,000 passengers a day which is a full 600 person train leaving around every 10 minutes).
Another way to look at it $6.94bn a year is $289 a year and change for every man, woman & child in our officially 24m population.
I wont even go into why the trains will not run at 300kph all the way beyond these points:
-Departure speed
-Getting from terminus to HSL
-Slowing for intermediate stops (you would never get the country towns to agree to no stops in between)
-dwell times to let passengers on & off
-ditto on departure and getting back on HSL lines.
This is why the average speed is usually only 60% to 70% of top possible speed.
Sorry these dollar numbers look ridiculous .
The whole concept of a HSL in the Syd-Mel corridor is ridiculous.
Please put it to bed and don't raise it again.
I use european rail passes a lot (usually 2 to 3 times a year).
I still fly but usually only if over 500km to my next stop or to/from Uk to Europe (and even then I Eurostar if near Belgium).
To the bucket list ticker for the RailJet go 1st Class and pay the 10 Euro upgrade to Business Premium - it's worth it
