Heads up about program changes

[Aussie_flyer]

738 is 156 economy. 12 business

 

[SeatBackForward]

A platinum buys $85 fares SYD-MEL and gets gets all sorts of benefits... extra baggage, priority check-in, food and drinks in the lounge, the best seats, a shadow and dedicated staff at the premium call centre. All for the same price a non status member pays. From whom does QF make more money on that single flight for the same fare?

I'm a good example of the above. My WP status is obtained by my work related trips - primarily on International J/PE and domeetic on flexi-economy. But when I pay for a flight for myself and my family, I'm taking the lowest fare. So we're completely ignoring how I got to Platinum?

 

[basso]

Unfortunately, the word you used was revenue not profit. On a 737 there are 138 economy seats and 12 business seats, the revenue of those economy seats at the lowest fare on routes I take is approximately equal to the business fare revenue. As for the suggestion that I am looking for creative reasons for Qantas to given me points for classic awards and MASA; that comment is pretty contemptible, given the way it misrepresents my position that has been clearly stated on AFF a number of times. It is wrong to suggest the issue is about getting the same revenue. The issue is getting revenue that Qantas deems acceptable, as I've said MANY, MANY times if they aren't happy with the revenue they could always reprice. I HAVE NEVER said that Classic awards, as is, should earn. NEVER!

I think you doth protesteth too much. I said revenue, and I meant revenue. It doesn't matter what the size of the aircraft is, it doesn;t matter what anyone else on the plane is doing. What they want to do is reward you for giving Qantas a certain amount of your expenditure. I will once again say, that a reprice that gives Qantas what they believe to be an acceptable revenue, will make the price the same as buyind the same revenue fare on Qantas. There will ne no financial advantage tp the flyer in using such a fare as they would cost the same.

 

[mrpooky]

No frequent flyer program that I've seen is most rewarding for its most frequent flyers, but rather its biggest spenders. I suspect if they were all renamed Big Spender instead of Frequent Flyer, certain people would argue about it less.

mrpooky.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I'm a good example of the above. My WP status is obtained by my work related trips - primarily on International J/PE and domeetic on flexi-economy. But when I pay for a flight for myself and my family, I'm taking the lowest fare. So we're completely ignoring how I got to Platinum?

no! if you have obtained platinum through high profit fares to QF then you deserve a consistent level of service when it comes to your holidays.

but if you obtained your platinum through low margin fares ($85 SYD-MEL) I think the numbers add up differently?

 

[serfty]

...

but if you obtained your platinum through low margin fares ($85 SYD-MEL) I think the numbers add up differently?

I doubt anyone obtains WP via $85 fares MEL/SYD)

(FWIW, I haven't seen any since last year on QF and then only for limited selection of dates but I get the drift.)

Anyway, even on those $109 current sale fares I still doubt Qantas is doing much more than covering costs, if that. And that would likely be for the flight as a whole. So on those $109 fares, it takes 60 return trips to retain WP status - that $13000 of revenue Qantas is happier to have in their pockets than those of another airline.

Status is supposed to be a way where an Airline can engender first choice status with a customer - and the more money a customer seems to spend, the better for the airline- hence WP1.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

So we have $7 a week in cost, offset by revenue from 46 kg of freight and the saved cost of not catering on board.

It is pretty obvious that at best there is no cost difference, or that the platinum flyer provides extra revenue because their predictability allows Qantas to make money in other ways.


Again with the BEST Seats BS, as if they cost? Is that a joke or distraction?

lower costs - ok, hadn't thought of it in that context.

as for the better seats... I stand by that. The platinum is getting the pick of the choice seats which detract from the experience of other passengers.

Why should I, as a non-status, always be stuck at the rear of the plane? why should I, as a non-status be stuck in the middle seat in row 56 when the platinum is swanning it with a shadow? Why should i always be stuck in the last row and have limited meal options?

Those seats have value. They might not 'cost' the airline anything to hold them, but they 'cost' because they are a premium experience which is being denied to other travellers.

Maybe a fairer system would be to block seats in the aircraft not based on status, but on fare paid?

The same applies for international upgrades. As a bronze, what chance do I have for an upgrade when I book and request 6 months in advance... but an $85 platinum and their family can take away everything I have been looking forward to just because they rather decide they might like to fly to Disneyland for a week at short notice? Perhaps upgrades should be allocated too on the level of fare paid, not status.

that would be simpler and fairer.

 

[oz_mark]

They claim it is about profit not revenue.

It can't be about profit. If it were about profit they'd stop awarding SC on Qantas International services.

 

[JohnK]

Anyway, even on those $109 current sale fares I still doubt Qantas is doing much more than covering costs, if that. And that would likely be for the flight as a whole. So on those $109 fares, it takes 60 return trips to retain WP status - that $6500 of revenue qantas is happier to have in thir pockets than those of another airline.

Isn't that ~$13000 revenue for 120 flights?

 

[Mr_Orange]

So, I have just spotted that a return flight booked before June 30 but for travel after June 30 will earn more SCs but less points under the new system. What are the chances of me convincing QF to credit these flights under the new system, as I am happy to miss out on a few points in order to gain some valuable life time SCs?

 

[eminere]

So, I have just spotted that a return flight booked before June 20 but for travel after June 30 will earn more SCs but less points under the new system. What are the chances of me convincing QF to credit these flights under the new system, as I am happy to miss out on a few points in order to gain some valuable life time SCs?

Minimal to zero.

 

[ketsuzei]

So, I have just spotted that a return flight booked before June 20 but for travel after June 30 will earn more SCs but less points under the new system. What are the chances of me convincing QF to credit these flights under the new system, as I am happy to miss out on a few points in order to gain some valuable life time SCs?

What's the significance of June 20?

 

[Mr_Orange]

What's the significance of June 20?

Nothing, it was a typo (doh!) and I just edited my post .

 

[wandering_fred]

Also consider that those Red-E-deal fares entice the families to be certain to maximize the number of points they earn at Woolies every week. On which the QF profit margin is likely higher than from air fares.

Not being a domestic flyer to any great extent, I think QF has been short sighted in their OneWorld partnerships. QF and AA have a JV agreement, in which QF makes a great deal of revenue from the connecting AA passengers and the monopoly QF presently has on the USA-Australia routes. BA also has a JVA, where they make the most of their agreement on the TransAtlantic market. One of the first things BA did was to ensure that all BA fares earned full mileage credit on AA (and I suspect the same in return). OTOH QF has continually reduced the earnings credited to AA, both by cutting the percentage earned and reducing the level of the fare classes (Semi flex used to be K - now V - in most markets). Add in the fact that QF has been (and continues to be) Sydney centric, with the only acknowledgement that PER-SYD/MEL flights seem to generate a lot of revenue passenger miles.

So in the end, someone who flies mostly internationally (or in the USA) the only plus to the QF program is the relatively easy earn for OneWorld status if flying in J or F. If that costs them money, they only have to look at the way they have structured the FF program and their route network.
If EK managed to include in the agreement (and I don't know one way or the other) that QF can only fly to Europe via DXB, then management should be sacked.

Just thinking causes wandering

Fred

 

[ketsuzei]

Nothing, it was a typo (doh!) and I just edited my post .

I still don't understand the question... are you saying it was booked prior to late March?

 

[rogerkambah]

Not too mention people flying that frequently may indeed get to the airport as late as possible and straight to the gate, bypassing the lounge. It's probably those pesky golds that aren't flying as often that spend more time imbibing in the lounge!

Yeah, those pesky golds!! Hang on, I'll be one next year.

 

[Mr_Orange]

I still don't understand the question... are you saying it was booked prior to late March?

Yes I am and I see what you are getting at. The 'simpler and fairer' email I received from QF on 27th March specifically noted that I had flights booked for after 1st July. I, wrongly it turns out, assumed there was no difference in SC earn however the tweaking of the fare buckets means that I would earn more SCs under the new system. I'd like to earn those extra SCs .

 

[ketsuzei]

Yes I am and I see what you are getting at. The 'simpler and fairer' email I received from QF on 27th March specifically noted that I had flights booked for after 1st July. I, wrongly it turns out, assumed there was no difference in SC earn however the tweaking of the fare buckets means that I would earn more SCs under the new system. I'd like to earn those extra SCs .

Red Roo has yet to get back to us regarding what will happen regarding bookings that are changed after S&F day. If it ends up going on the date of (re-) ticketing rather than the initial booking date, then you could potentially make some change to your booking in order to rort the system, sorry, I mean earn those extra SCs.

 

[Cossie]

then when it comes to overseas travel, the platinum buys a cheap economy fare not only for themselves, but sometimes their whole family as well. Or they ask for extra award seats to be released. They then have extra baggage, F lounge food and drinks, F lounge massages, the best seats, a shadow, business class wines, business class drinks, business class amenity kits, business class headphones, business class PJs, and attention from senior crew. All for the same price a non-status member pays. (and some of the benefits I suspect are to the detriment of those actually in the higher cabins, like when champagne runs out.)

On that flight, for the same fare, who does qantas make more money off?

I'm WP, on my last trip I booked all QF flight numbers through the Qantas website, of the 4 international sectors, I was on Qantas metal once. I was upgraded to business on one sector (not the Qantas one), was personally greeted by the CSM on all non Qantas flights and was given fast track through Dubai for both transits. My bag at Frankfurt was one of the first off, on a carousel which was dedicated to high priority luggage only.

On the sector that was on Qantas, no formal greeting, no extra goodies, in fact from what I could see in my area of economy, no freebies were given out at all, no eye shades, socks etc.

In other words, no shadow, no business class wines, no business class drinks, no business class amenity kits, no business class headphones, no business class PJs, and no extra attention from any crew member, senior nor junior.

I had to ask for an 'express lane' arrivals card and I had to wait for it, which meant I was the last off on the top deck.

I would like to hear from any WP's that have had the sort of treatment you seem to think happens to WP's.

I do realise that this next part isn't entirely the fault of Qantas, but my bag was one of the last off at Melbourne along with another dissatisfied person with 'first class' and 'priority' tags on their luggage, this I must admit meant asking for and getting an 'express card' was a waste of time.

Qantas has my money, even if it wasn't a huge amount, I don't know how their relationship works with Emirates, how they split any presumed profit.

My experience last October wasn't a great deal different, except I was a 'gold' then and I didn't get an upgrade, but I did get an amenities pack, along with everyone else in my area on the Qantas sector. Personal greetings from Emirates staff, nothing special from Qantas.

Previously I would have preferred Qantas metal and would have flown them to Frankfurt, but it makes it hard to justify flying them if they don't fly to the destinations I want and don't seem to appreciate my custom.

 

[medhead]

I think you doth protesteth too much. I said revenue, and I meant revenue. It doesn't matter what the size of the aircraft is, it doesn;t matter what anyone else on the plane is doing. What they want to do is reward you for giving Qantas a certain amount of your expenditure. I will once again say, that a reprice that gives Qantas what they believe to be an acceptable revenue, will make the price the same as buyind the same revenue fare on Qantas. There will ne no financial advantage tp the flyer in using such a fare as they would cost the same.

Which brings back to my original point. There are plenty around here, as we've seen, who claim the frequent flyer in economy does not contribute to qantas. Your previous reply to me also tried to drag profit in as an issue.

My my point does not really depend on the outcome of a reprice of masa. The market will decide if they want to use it at that price. The clear advantage of Asa was that they allow using points towards flying at a reasonable level. I'm also pretty confident to say that qantas we're getting the price they're prepared to accept for a classic award plus a cash margin that covered the points/SC cost for direct point to point MASA. The big issue is they haven't repriced at all, they just removed the product. What is left is points plus pay at ludicrous prices well above the cash fare level.

profit is based on the entire flight, it does matter what the rest of the airplane is doing. If no one is buying the cheap seats then you're not selling the expensive seats.